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      12-07-2017, 10:40 AM   #1211
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There will be no M2 CSL.

Also, there will be an M5 hybrid. Now, who would've thought that would happen.

Edit: When I say there will be no M2 CSL, what I mean is that whatever team was working on the M2 CSL has been officially asked to do something else. This was also announced at an internal event.

The official wording was on the lines of "We will be stopping work on the M2 CSL". These words were spoken by a very "Frank" person.

ynguldyn : Please chime in here.

Last edited by Gatte; 12-07-2017 at 10:45 AM..
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      12-07-2017, 10:53 AM   #1212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
There will be no M2 CSL.

Also, there will be an M5 hybrid. Now, who would've thought that would happen.



Edit: When I say there will be no M2 CSL, what I mean is that whatever team was working on the M2 CSL has been officially asked to do something else. This was also announced at an internal event.

ynguldyn : Please chime in here.
Sadness, as I was planning to pass on the CS to wait for the CSL. I picked up something over Thanksgiving that I couldn't pass up.
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      12-07-2017, 11:03 AM   #1213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
There will be no M2 CSL.

Also, there will be an M5 hybrid. Now, who would've thought that would happen.



Edit: When I say there will be no M2 CSL, what I mean is that whatever team was working on the M2 CSL has been officially asked to do something else. This was also announced at an internal event.

ynguldyn : Please chime in here.
Interesting. Hadn't seen that. I think that really make sense given the bomb the m4 gts has been. And I don't mean that in the positive way!
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      12-07-2017, 11:04 AM   #1214
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Is that because they’ve finished development work on the CSL and are moving onto their next project?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
There will be no M2 CSL.

Also, there will be an M5 hybrid. Now, who would've thought that would happen.



Edit: When I say there will be no M2 CSL, what I mean is that whatever team was working on the M2 CSL has been officially asked to do something else. This was also announced at an internal event.

ynguldyn : Please chime in here.
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      12-07-2017, 11:10 AM   #1215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogeyman View Post
Is that because they’ve finished development work on the CSL and are moving onto their next project?
The official wording was on the lines of "We will be stopping work on the M2 CSL". These words were spoken by a very "Frank" person.
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      12-07-2017, 11:44 AM   #1216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synergist View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2GB View Post
My thoughts are this:



M2 with some minor mods are showing 420hp and 440lb ft of torque quite easily. You can mod the S55 to more crazy levels, but ive driven a tuned M2 and its already wheel spinning under full boost. Chasis is at limit of being fun/frustrating with even a moderate increase in power.
FBO BM3 cars out there are having a difficult time barely cracking 400 whp on 91 (not sure what you guys have in the UK). And that means you have to push the stock fueling and turbos to the limit, which I am not a fan of. This is the advantage of the S55, even though it is not the most pleasant sounding exhaust note. A mild tune bringing it to stock M3/4 levels would mean little to no added stress on the drive train. Having driven the M2 and M4 on track I believe a bit more power is to be welcomed. With the correct suspension/wheel/tire setup this chassis could easily handle 440 whp.
I completely agree. The chassis is so competent and some grippy 275s will go a long way at the rear.

FWIW if you're hitting 400whp with FBO and stage 1 you are either at sea level and moderately stressing the turbo or you're at altitude and severely stressing the turbo. What I'm hearing is that peak boost, stock, can hit 20psi at altitude. This should be a concern to anyone thinking we can hit S55 M2 numbers with no risk. There is definitely risk. Add heat and altitude and your risk gets significantly higher.
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      12-07-2017, 12:31 PM   #1217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synergist View Post
FBO BM3 cars out there are having a difficult time barely cracking 400 whp on 91 (not sure what you guys have in the UK). And that means you have to push the stock fueling and turbos to the limit, which I am not a fan of. This is the advantage of the S55, even though it is not the most pleasant sounding exhaust note. A mild tune bringing it to stock M3/4 levels would mean little to no added stress on the drive train. Having driven the M2 and M4 on track I believe a bit more power is to be welcomed. With the correct suspension/wheel/tire setup this chassis could easily handle 440 whp.
+2 Considering even the 2018 Mustang GT comes stock with ~420WHP now, the chassis should be capable on this platform. (Rubber will need an upgrade)
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      12-07-2017, 12:52 PM   #1218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
There will be no M2 CSL.

Also, there will be an M5 hybrid. Now, who would've thought that would happen.



Edit: When I say there will be no M2 CSL, what I mean is that whatever team was working on the M2 CSL has been officially asked to do something else. This was also announced at an internal event.

ynguldyn : Please chime in here.
Sounds like the CSL has been scrapped altogether. That's really sad news. Wonder what this "something else" is that the now defunct CSL team will be working on. Have a hunch it has nothing to do with an M2 variant.
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      12-07-2017, 01:13 PM   #1219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
Sounds like the CSL has been scrapped altogether. That's really sad news. Wonder what this "something else" is that the now defunct CSL team will be working on. Have a hunch it has nothing to do with an M2 variant.
Gatte also posted this on the other thread:

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      12-07-2017, 01:26 PM   #1220
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Words from the horses mouth itself ! Sad times indeed.

Through desperation I've pinged Van Meel on Linkedin and asked if i should get my deposit back and place it on a Cayman GT4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
The official wording was on the lines of "We will be stopping work on the M2 CSL". These words were spoken by a very "Frank" person.
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      12-07-2017, 02:31 PM   #1221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
There will be no M2 CSL.
Also, there will be an M5 hybrid. Now, who would've thought that would happen.
Edit: When I say there will be no M2 CSL, what I mean is that whatever team was working on the M2 CSL has been officially asked to do something else. This was also announced at an internal event.
ynguldyn : Please chime in here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
There is still hope for the M2 CS after the M2 Competition. A subset of these parts were booked out of inventory a little over a week ago.
The entire list is pretty large. I am only posting a subset which have M2 CS logo in them.
Interesting. Not read that before.

"CSL" = "Coupé Sport Leichtbau" = Coupé Sport Lightweight construction.

So Gatte, regarding the more track-oriented M2 variant: was it a change from "M2 CSL" to "M2 CS" during development, or was only the "M2 CS" planned right from the start ?

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      12-07-2017, 02:49 PM   #1222
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Not surprising considering the current state of M4 GTS market.

Little do they know if they built an all-out CSL model with a manual gearbox, they would sell out instantly.

If a CS model is coming now as well as the Competition. That further cements the idea of the Competition not getting a big msrp bump. It will be the more standard car, just with more available options. CS will have everything standard plus some other goodies, with the CS ridiculous price tag.

Last edited by hellrotm; 12-07-2017 at 02:54 PM..
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      12-07-2017, 03:37 PM   #1223
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This whole thing is weird. Didn't BMW confirm not too long ago there would be a CSL variant? If so it's odd that they just suddenly pulled the plug on the CSL. My mind is racing with plausible "why" hypothesis for shutting this down. I have many, but what's the point in burning calories for nothing. It seems that BMW cannot make up its mind. M2 CS, no M2 Competition, no M2 CS, no, no, no, M2 CSL... we meant "no M2 CSL". FFS
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      12-07-2017, 05:37 PM   #1224
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Hi,

Can we still order the M2 Competition starting January 2018? My number is up and dealer is asking if I want to go ahead and order the M2. Now if Comp package ordering is starting in January 2018 then I might as well wait a little. Please let us know if you have any additional info.

Thanks!
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      12-07-2017, 08:07 PM   #1225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
So Gatte, regarding the more track-oriented M2 variant: was it a change from "M2 CSL" to "M2 CS" during development, or was only the "M2 CS" planned right from the start ?
I am not sure.

I am assuming that there was a plan at some point to make the CSL which is why it was announced that they will be stopping work on that. A few weeks ago, I was told that they were contemplating scrapping the CS and having just "one other model" which I assumed at that point would be the CSL.

Nothing was spoken about the CS. I am assuming it is still on since I was told that the M2 CS has been ready for a very long time now and because parts belonging to the CS were recently used somewhere.

Last edited by Gatte; 12-07-2017 at 08:31 PM..
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      12-07-2017, 08:12 PM   #1226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogeyman View Post
Through desperation I've pinged Van Meel on Linkedin and asked if i should get my deposit back and place it on a Cayman GT4
1 step ahead of ya. Already have a deposit.

If that gets the 4.0 from the GT3,
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      12-07-2017, 08:26 PM   #1227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
This whole thing is weird. Didn't BMW confirm not too long ago there would be a CSL variant?
BMW just said that the CSL designation would replace the GTS. Maybe they might revisit it later in a year or so if it makes sense.

I really wanted to see a GT4 competitor from BMW.
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      12-07-2017, 11:19 PM   #1228
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I don't think the project has been axed...may be on the back-burner for now

After all the CSL initiative was from the highest so plenty of pull to proceed forward when the time is right

I believe pricing on the competition model will be pretty aggressive as it is not a limited edition model. They will go for volume rather then a steeper margin as it has to be competitive with the RS3s, A45 AMGs...etc As such I see a max of 10-15% increment in price
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      12-08-2017, 02:46 AM   #1229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1969 View Post
Back to my previous (i.e. only!) topic on residual values. I’ve read through the whole thread now, my understanding on M2 S55 Competition launch timeline as follows;
- Details to be officially released most likely end Jan/earlyFeb 2018
- Car to be revealed at subsequent show (Geneva or possibly earlier)
- Production to start May or thereabouts
- Car likely to go on sale June/July

As to the car itself, my understanding of summary details as follows:
- Key change is de-tuned (400/410PS) S55 twin turbo M3/M4 engine to replace current N55 as base (i.e. Competition) model
- N55 engined M2 to cease production prior to switch to S55
- More factory fitted option availability versus current N55 LCI model e.g. uprated brakes and seats.
- New colours – Hockenheim Silver and Sunset Orange with Metallic Grey to be no longer available
- Definite price increase for the S55 base model. This seems to be the one remaining area where there’s significant variance in forum members views on how great the level of price rise will be

I’ve put my name down for a Competition vehicle at my local dealer (Cooper group, #3 on the list I’m told) who is asking for £1k deposit but I’m holding out at this stage on the basis that this would be my 3rd “M” car so they know I’m genuine. Dealer says it is a BMW UK requirement but I’m questioning that (any views out there?). My current M2 DCT (Jan 17 build so pre LCI) is not a daily driver so I could live without albeit like the rest of you I love the car. I’m still chewing over whether I put the car up for sale now given current known resale prices (I bought new so I’d take a hit of course but not too savage) or keep and trade in against the Competition vehicle as and when it arrives. My car is on a 2 year PCP with BMWFS (5.9% APR) ending in March 2019 so contractually at least I’m not in any rush. Question I have is what do you think will happen to residual values on current N55 vehicles in the coming months. From my perspective, it can go 1 of 2 ways:

1/ Price rise of base S55 Competition vehicle is 'modest’ e.g. €3.5k/£3.5k. In this case, presume N55 residual values will start to drop significantly once official announcement on Competition vehicle and pricing is made. Stocks of existing new N55 LCI unregistered vehicles will need to attract higher discounts and incentives in order to shift thus feeding through to used vehicle prices. In this case I’d be better off looking to sell my current car asap.

2/ Price rise of base S55 Competition vehicle is more significant e.g. €7k/£7k or possibly more. In this case, S55 becomes more out of reach to potential buyers thus ‘protecting’ existing N55 values as the only entry level “M” car price point available to a significant number of purchasers. This would also help BMW shift remaining existing new, unregistered N55 stock. In this case I’d be better off keeping my current car and waiting for the S55 Competition vehicle order to materialise presumably late 2018 or early 2019.

Option 2 would be my preferred option as I get to have my cake (keep existing M2) and eat it (get S55 M2 before my PCP comes to an end). Downside is option 2 assumes a higher price walk for the S55 car but you can’t have it all ways.

Any thoughts at this stage on how the pricing / residual value scenario is likely to play out as I’d appreciate the benefit of your knowledge and insight. I fully understand it’s my call ultimately but it will assist my decision whether to put my current car up for sale now or whether to wait and see. Decisions decisions…..
No full reply to quote #1208 above, would appreciate any informed responses.
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      12-08-2017, 03:18 AM   #1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
I completely agree. The chassis is so competent and some grippy 275s will go a long way at the rear.

FWIW if you're hitting 400whp with FBO and stage 1 you are either at sea level and moderately stressing the turbo or you're at altitude and severely stressing the turbo. What I'm hearing is that peak boost, stock, can hit 20psi at altitude. This should be a concern to anyone thinking we can hit S55 M2 numbers with no risk. There is definitely risk. Add heat and altitude and your risk gets significantly higher.
Close to sea level conditions, intercooler, sports down pipe and performance airfilter running on 98 octance fuel (93 us equivalent). Ive seen 3 or 4 different cars running this set up now pushing between 410 and 425 hp all circa 440lbft

Dont see how the turbo is being stressed. Its getting less heat soak with the sports DP and its pumping cooler air into the engine. Boost levels at and under 18psi
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      12-08-2017, 12:38 PM   #1231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1969 View Post
No full reply to quote #1208 above, would appreciate any informed responses.
I don't think you wrote enough... Perhaps a longer post might get a reply.
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      12-08-2017, 05:10 PM   #1232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1969 View Post
No full reply to quote #1208 above, would appreciate any informed responses.
Most of us here are speculating based on what information we have. Pricing for a car is one of the difficult things to speculate on since it is not something we can see or hear from the test mules.

The consensus is that the M2 Competition will be replacing the base M2. If that is indeed what happens, BMW cannot and most probably will not be able to raise the price of the car too much. It would mostly be priced in the low 60K USD range. At that point, you need to ask yourself what people would opt for: Whether it would be a new N55 M2 at 53K or new S55 M2 at 60K. I would personally go for the S55 equipped M2 at 60K even if I could get a used 2018 N55 M2 at a discount of say 50K USD. But that's just me.

A lot of people here including current M2 owners swear by the N55 exhaust and state that as the reason for preferring the N55 equipped M2 even at the expense of maybe some of the performance. If I was in your shoes, I would sell now and wait for the competition and/or another variant.

I did something similar with my M235i and got out before the resale values really plummeted.
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