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      10-09-2021, 02:06 AM   #45
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Sounds to me you were expecting a grand tourer in a sports car. Naturally aspirated flat sixes sound rough and racy, and loves to be driven over 3000rpm from the get go. Back in the day when people actually cared about driving, the owners manual explicitly mentioned not to upshift below 3000 rpm to avoid engine bogging.

Plus, I am surprised you found 8 speed PDK in 992s better than the 7-speed PDK. The 7-speed PDK used in 718GTS&GT4/992 GT3s is known to be faster than the 8-speed PDK they use in regular 992s. Can you elaborate on how the 8-speed PDK was better for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydert View Post
Do not meet your heroes.

I got a chance to take the Boxster GTS4.0 on a bit of an extended test drive today and I’ll get straight to the point - I was kind of disappointed.

Looks: I’m not really a big fan of the boxster design (love the Spyder) but I thought the python green color would rock and it did. Love it. Would def buy in this color.

Cabin/Seats: Typical Porsche - solid. Otherwise same as all 718s. The seats felt tight though, and I couldn’t get the side bolsters to expand enough. I am by no means portly (more on the slim side) so I found this a bit weird.

Chassis/Suspension: This is by far the trump card of the 718 generation. It’s just superb and leagues better than the M2’s. The chassis can handle even more power. However, you can tell that it’s heavier than the 4 cylinder variants. It’s not bad, and the firmness is reassuring, but you do feel that it’s not as sprightly. It’s a more ‘serious’ 718.

Sound: The exhaust can get loud. Really loud. It’s a good noise - better than the 4 cylinder turbos and there wasn’t the high speed drone those ones have, but it’s not a really great noise either. I first noticed this when I started a 718GT4 a while back but thought then it must have been me, the sound features of the dealership floor etc, - but I confirmed it today. It’s a good but not great sound. The M2 makes a more melodious, sonorous tone and it’s not as loud. There was a 991.2 Carrera driving by the other day and that had a much better sound. I had to switch off sports+ in some neighborhoods cos I just felt it was too obnoxious. I’ve never had that problem in the M2.

Engine - I know it’ll sound odd but this is actually where I was disappointed - mainly with the throttle response. I get that its NA and all that, but this car feels almost lethargic in the low revs. And because the noise factor is up, it’s like drama without any substance until you get up in the rev range, and then it moves. It’s just today I understood the frustration with the long gearing that folks have been talking about (I had the pdk by the way). There isn’t much else but noise in the low revs and then when you to where the excitement starts, you’re already past the speed limit and have to slow back down. It’s like power that you just can’t use and it was frustrating. I don’t know why it has to be this way. The Miata is just a 4 pot NA and is very peppy in the low revs and I think more fun than this as a result. Also, the pdk in the 718 is nowhere near as good as in the new 992s. For the 911, I would be torn between the pdk and manual, but here, definitely the manual.

All in all, this is the third time I really went into the 718 with a view to seeing if I had found the car to replace or perhaps add to the M2. And each time I’ve come away with a clear sense that the M2 is the better car - at least for me. Weirdly, the GTS4.0 is to me, the biggest conundrum of the lot. The only thing I didn’t like about the 4 cylinder GTS was the sound and the drone. In the 4.0, the chassis feels like it wants to be on the road, but the engine feels like it wants to be on a track, or be a GT car which I know sounds weird - but that’s how it felt. There was something unresolved about it. One thing I will say though is that with the exhaust left in normal, it’ll be a way better daily driver than the M2.

As it stands now then, the 911 is the only car that really appeals to me in the Porsche line up (the 992 Carrera S is the best car I have ever driven in my life). It’s kinda sad cos I’ve always loved and looked up to the Cayman/Boxster series.

Maybe, really, do not meet your heroes.



NB: FWIW to anyone here, I was flabbergasted by the Cayene GTS. It's an absolute stonker of a car.
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      10-09-2021, 12:51 PM   #46
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Tall gearing in a naturally-aspirated, manual transmission sports car intended for street driving is a sin.

OP has a great point about the Miata - its close ratios make a slow car feel spritely. My '99 only has 5 gears but they're all short - even 5th! I'm quite happy to rev a sporty NA engine to get its power/torque but FFS, give us a close ratio gearbox to work with.
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      10-11-2021, 07:43 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Sounds to me you were expecting a grand tourer in a sports car. Naturally aspirated flat sixes sound rough and racy, and loves to be driven over 3000rpm from the get go. Back in the day when people actually cared about driving, the owners manual explicitly mentioned not to upshift below 3000 rpm to avoid engine bogging.

Plus, I am surprised you found 8 speed PDK in 992s better than the 7-speed PDK. The 7-speed PDK used in 718GTS&GT4/992 GT3s is known to be faster than the 8-speed PDK they use in regular 992s. Can you elaborate on how the 8-speed PDK was better for you?

I’ve now driven the pdk in the 718 three times - S, GTS, GTS4.0.
I don’t know about the reports you’re quoting but i found the pdk in the 992 to be undoubtedly better. It was faster for sure, smoother when driving mildy, and equally as- if not more dramatic in sport. I’ve not driven the GT3 so I can’t comment on that.
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      10-15-2021, 03:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Honestly 70mph in 2nd gear at redline in a manual trans GT car is so incredibly dumb. What is the point of this? Why wouldn't you want to shift more? This is only amplified by the fact the motor is dead below 5krpm, not that different the S65 I owned. In the end I honestly think the Cayman is a pointless car.
I've owned and competed in a E92 M3 with the S65 for 5 years, currently own the BGTS 2.5T version w/ a pdk (first non-manual car in 20 years) and have autocrossed the M2, M2C, and both the 981 and 718 GT4's (manual). I think most of the comments here are pretty ridiculous. Yes, if you are pushing it hard, you ring them out but they are gutless at 4k by any measure. If you are just tooling around town, there is no need to be stoplight racing. If you are stop light racing, how long do you really think it takes to get to the heart of the power band from 1st and keep it there. The 718 GTS is a phenomenal car.
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      01-29-2022, 05:14 AM   #49
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So a little update on this - I went to the Porsche performance center bout 2 months ago and was able to take the Spyder out on their track. It's true what they say - if you're not tracking the GT4 or Spyder, you really should consider it well before buying (unless its a value buy only). Those cars, and that engine as a result is made for the track. All its foibles at city speed driving make sense when you're going 9 or 10/10s - the noise makes sense, the gearing makes sense, the mid engine chassis - all of it. Given how close they are in price, if I could get one and if tracking was a big part of my auto experience, I would just try get the GT cars.
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      01-29-2022, 07:40 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydert View Post
It's true what they say - if you're not tracking the GT4 or Spyder, you really should consider it well before buying (unless its a value buy only). Those cars, and that engine as a result is made for the track. All its foibles at city speed driving make sense when you're going 9 or 10/10s - the noise makes sense, the gearing makes sense, the mid engine chassis - all of it. Given how close they are in price, if I could get one and if tracking was a big part of my auto experience, I would just try get the GT cars.
I've always considered these cars as better at HPDE's than real racing, so if your ownership is largely going to include that, then they are really fantastic. But if you're looking for a daily that sees the track 4 times a year I think you'll be disappointed in the end.
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      11-14-2022, 09:07 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydert View Post
Do not meet your heroes.

I got a chance to take the Boxster GTS4.0 on a bit of an extended test drive today and I’ll get straight to the point - I was kind of disappointed.

Looks: I’m not really a big fan of the boxster design (love the Spyder) but I thought the python green color would rock and it did. Love it. Would def buy in this color.

Cabin/Seats: Typical Porsche - solid. Otherwise same as all 718s. The seats felt tight though, and I couldn’t get the side bolsters to expand enough. I am by no means portly (more on the slim side) so I found this a bit weird.

Chassis/Suspension: This is by far the trump card of the 718 generation. It’s just superb and leagues better than the M2’s. The chassis can handle even more power. However, you can tell that it’s heavier than the 4 cylinder variants. It’s not bad, and the firmness is reassuring, but you do feel that it’s not as sprightly. It’s a more ‘serious’ 718.

Sound: The exhaust can get loud. Really loud. It’s a good noise - better than the 4 cylinder turbos and there wasn’t the high speed drone those ones have, but it’s not a really great noise either. I first noticed this when I started a 718GT4 a while back but thought then it must have been me, the sound features of the dealership floor etc, - but I confirmed it today. It’s a good but not great sound. The M2 makes a more melodious, sonorous tone and it’s not as loud. There was a 991.2 Carrera driving by the other day and that had a much better sound. I had to switch off sports+ in some neighborhoods cos I just felt it was too obnoxious. I’ve never had that problem in the M2.

Engine - I know it’ll sound odd but this is actually where I was disappointed - mainly with the throttle response. I get that its NA and all that, but this car feels almost lethargic in the low revs. And because the noise factor is up, it’s like drama without any substance until you get up in the rev range, and then it moves. It’s just today I understood the frustration with the long gearing that folks have been talking about (I had the pdk by the way). There isn’t much else but noise in the low revs and then when you to where the excitement starts, you’re already past the speed limit and have to slow back down. It’s like power that you just can’t use and it was frustrating. I don’t know why it has to be this way. The Miata is just a 4 pot NA and is very peppy in the low revs and I think more fun than this as a result. Also, the pdk in the 718 is nowhere near as good as in the new 992s. For the 911, I would be torn between the pdk and manual, but here, definitely the manual.

All in all, this is the third time I really went into the 718 with a view to seeing if I had found the car to replace or perhaps add to the M2. And each time I’ve come away with a clear sense that the M2 is the better car - at least for me. Weirdly, the GTS4.0 is to me, the biggest conundrum of the lot. The only thing I didn’t like about the 4 cylinder GTS was the sound and the drone. In the 4.0, the chassis feels like it wants to be on the road, but the engine feels like it wants to be on a track, or be a GT car which I know sounds weird - but that’s how it felt. There was something unresolved about it. One thing I will say though is that with the exhaust left in normal, it’ll be a way better daily driver than the M2.

As it stands now then, the 911 is the only car that really appeals to me in the Porsche line up (the 992 Carrera S is the best car I have ever driven in my life). It’s kinda sad cos I’ve always loved and looked up to the Cayman/Boxster series.

Maybe, really, do not meet your heroes.



NB: FWIW to anyone here, I was flabbergasted by the Cayene GTS. It's an absolute stonker of a car.
I’ve had similar experiences with multiple 718 drives. Just lacking a characterful feel to me. Surgical capability, but only becomes fun when lapping on track. That’s been my takeaway after multiple tries, including the 718 GT4 on closed circuits. Indeed, you know what they say about heroes.
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      11-29-2022, 08:56 AM   #52
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On an M2 you'll also be over the speed limiter often in 2 gear.

I don't get the hate about the gear ratios, that's so Youtube 2020. Talk to actual owners and most couldn't care less for it, it's not optimal but it's loads of fun regardless.

Also stomping on the gas pedal and only hearing sound but not pulling - you obviously like turbos and are used to them. But try driving a 981 GT4 with even less torque, step on it and tell me it's not fun. It's just a different fun.

Have an M2 and a B4.0GTS (manual, oMg ThE rAtiOs) and both do their job very well. The better car? The Porsche, easily. The more fun? Probably the M2. You can get an M2 very capable with a few mods but it will never have the steering and feedback of a 718.
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      12-16-2022, 01:59 PM   #53
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Thanks for the write up! I thought about the cayman gts4.0 for a while, and then placed an order for a 911T. Was stoked when they released a base manual with the performance bits, and it’s “only” $30k more than the cayman, at least how I built it. The 911 in my view has always been the single and only Porsche that really matters. Although I get why people like the cayman and boxster, the SUVs and sedans are kind of superfluous - nicer versions of their VW counterparts. But the 911 is just such a special sports car. They say the gearing is a bit long on it also, but oh well. The S and GTS are too fast for the street. The m3 I have is also a bit too fast for the street. It’s hard to get a car that isn’t too fast these days, looking forward to enjoying a lightweight, manual, powerful enough 911. And I like the M2 better in f87 or g87 form better than the cayman, personally.
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      12-18-2022, 02:42 PM   #54
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The only Porsche that i think rivals the M2 is going to be the GT4 without breaking the bank.
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      12-19-2022, 09:15 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2_MEDUSA View Post
The only Porsche that i think rivals the M2 is going to be the GT4 without breaking the bank.
How do you mean? A Cayman S with a Software tune and very basic mods will lap an M2. A GTS2.5 or a GTS4.0 stock will still be a lot more capable.

Bang for the buck it's the M2 a thousand times. But not everyone has to count pennies (I do )
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      12-19-2022, 12:43 PM   #56
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i rented a base boxster with the 4 cylinder and found it better than my f80 m3. steering is better, ride quality is better, trans (both pdk and manual) is better than bmws versions. interior has nicer materials. There are just a ton of advantages mid engine cars have over the traditional FR layout.

i'd take a cayman gts no question over any modern bmw for a pure fun toy for weekend cruising / canyons / track. the M2 comes into the equation if you need more of a daily and back seats.

tall gearing is only a problem if you live in area with lots of traffic or aren't willing to break the speed limits on backroads/canyons/highways.
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