[jas1598]

I currently own a 2018 M2 LCI with DCT and 14k miles. The car's a blast and I love everything about it. I was able to buy it used for only $45k a year ago, and you simply can't get a better car for the money. With that said, I, like many other BMW enthusiasts, find myself lusting after the new GT4. I put my name on the waiting list at my Porsche dealer and should be able to place an order in late 2022 (hopefully). But, there is obviously a HUGE price difference, and I keep going back and forth if the upgrade is really necessary.

I've never driven a GT4 (only a new Cayman S), but I've read everything online and it's clear the experience is next level compared to the M2. If I get the GT4, I don't plan to track it. I would just be taking spirited drives around the Rockies/west coast. I would also get the PDK (which I know is sacrilege to many, but I prefer it).

Right now my monthly payment on the M2 is $670 and going to the GT4 would bring it up to around $1,600, which I can afford, but not by much. My big question is, is this expensive upgrade worth it? Of course that's a subjective question, but I'd love to hear others' thoughts. The GT4 will hold its value much better than the M2 and is sure to be a future classic. I'm in love with the styling and the fact that it's a true sports car, but I just can't help feeling like it's a totally irresponsible financial decision. Especially when the M2 is such a great car in its own right.

[akhbhaat]

I've somewhat extensively driven the 718 GT4, M2C, and 981 GT4 (the last of which I own myself). Have also had other M cars in the past (E46, E92), for context. No experience with the OG M2 so I'll use the M2C as a surrogate.

it's clear the experience is next level compared to the M2

This is true...sort of. But it depends on what you value.

The Porsche is built and tuned for serious driving and track work. It's precise and can be brutally fast when unencumbered (track) and driven well. It's loud and sounds amazing in general (especially the 981). But where it really separates itself from anything BMW these days is control feel: despite EPAS, it's appropriately weighted at speed (taut), offers feedback that rivals many hydraulic racks (it's awfully close to the E46 I still have), and loads up beautifully towards the limit. The shifter is very short and very mechanical, the clutch and the brakes have visceral bite and great modulation (brakes especially with proper track pads). Compare to BMW's dead, over-assisted steering, rubbery shift linkage, and vague clutch and brakes.

Here's the "sort of" part: it's an atmo motor so it isn't going to provide turbo torque and the shove people have come to expect these days (even though it will easily keep pace with a stock M2 at full bore down the straights--especially the 718 version--it doesn't feel it). You buy it for sound and throttle response. The gearing is tall. On the whole, it will feel significantly slower on the street.

The second issue is that it's not nearly as playful as the M cars inside the envelope: the rear is well-planted and won't rotate aggressively without coercion, and it can be a relative handful when it gets loose...you need to be quick to catch it. The lazy powerslides you can pull off in an M2 are a lot more work to achieve and sustain in a GT4, if possible at all, especially at street speeds. This is still a mid-engine car, after all, though very forgiving by that standard. I'm not much of a hooligan driver (never was) so I don't care about this, but a lot of people do.

BTW: Porsche rounded off a lot of edges moving from 981 to 718. It's a faster car but IMO a bit less engaging when it comes to sound and control feel. I cancelled my deposit over this and opted to wait for the RS or maybe just add something like a 997.2 GT3RS to mix things up. All down to preference; YMMV.

If I get the GT4, I don't plan to track it. I would just be taking spirited drives around the Rockies/west coast.

If this is the case, I would probably get a GTS 4.0 or keep the M2. You lose a lot by not tracking the GT4 at least occasionally--that's its natural element. All of the things that make it seem overly serious and buttoned down on the road make a lot more sense when you're bending a turn at 140+ or negotiating a deeply technical corner complex. Even the tall gearing starts to make some sense when you can carry third all the way through a fast sweeper and then blast out of the apex right in the meat of the powerband. Meanwhile, all of the things that make the M2 so entertaining at 5/10ths (like the rear axle) in turn make it almost tedious to drive in the track context.

The other issue is livability: not even just NVH (motor is right behind you and there's very little sound insulation in the cabin; the GT4 is loud) but things like approach angles (getting in any out of driveways/parking lots) and unwanted attention. I don't daily drive mine and wouldn't want to--and again, it's not because of NVH.

Is it worth 2-3x the money? To me it is, but I have a track habit (and frankly I wasn't stretching my budget so there was no added stress in spending the extra money). In your case, maybe not.

[jas1598]

Outstanding analysis, Akhbhaat. I was looking at the Cayman GTS 4.0, but the aggressive styling and chassis of the GT4 make it so much more appealing. That, and it holds value better if I buy new. If I'm going to take the plunge and spend the big money, I figured I'd go all in for the GT4. But you're absolutely right; I feel like owning the GT4 is a bit of a waste if I'm not going to track it. Your points about the M2 being more fun for most street driving are well taken.

[akhbhaat]

The GT4 also has a completely different steering rack and shifter (both straight out of the GT3) than the GTS, which makes it a sharper drive even at a casual pace. But it's a lot of money just for some steering and shifter tweaks (especially since the GTS has the same drivetrain). Value retention and looks: yup, fair. The GTS trims hold value very well too, though (maybe not quite as well, but there's also a 15k price delta to compensate for).

Also, as I mentioned, the 718's controls are a bit lighter/softer (less "raw") than the 981, and while Porsche/AP has (AFAIK) never explained why they did it, the general assumption is that they mainly did it to make the car more livable for people who regularly drive around town. So, while I've driven the 718, my perspective mainly comes from owning and driving the harsher 981.

[baege]

Coming from past ownership of 2 981 Cayman S' and as a current owner of a 2020 M2C, I am going to say a gts 4.0 is the way to go since you have no plans to track the car.

a gts 4.0 will offer you much more driving enjoyment than the M2 for your spirited drives, with its NA engine and more focused driving experience.

Sounds like you are financing both cars towards ownership, so the actual cost delta between the 2 is more complicated then the difference in the monthly payments. Given the likelihood that the 4.0 may be the last normally aspirated mid engine car porsche makes, I suspect they will retain their value quite well. So maybe when you go to sell, the porsche will cost you less than the M2?

but even if it does cost you a little more, I would say yes it's worth it, if you are an enthusiast you need the porsche experience at least once in your life, they are just amazing cars

[Romo]

Owning a M2CS and 718 GT4;

The CS is the softer car, both on low and high speeds , not as loud.

On steering I would say; low speed the CS feels a little more direct and agile, the GT4 on low speeds feels a little slow on initial response. On high(er) speeds the GT4 wakes up and feels very alive.

I have the DCT and the PDK version;
In automatic the PDK is the better gearbox, in manual I would say the difference is minimal, lets say the PDK is a little sharper and more direct on input.

Engine wise great difference of course;
GT4 needs to rev out to max, the get the power and reward, being in the wrong gear and stepping on you are a sitting duck for competitors.
CS has always power, the gear does not matter much, it wil take of anyway.

Seating;
GT4 has LWB, very low seating position, great feel through the butt, and yes, also very comfortable. Mild criticism is that the shoulders are bent al little too much forward IMHO. But overall just great.
CS; not as low, even more comfortable, also great seats

Suspension/Dampers;
CS comfort setting is just awesome on daily driving, much better then my 2016 OGM2, especially the rear has incredibly improved on the CS, I use it all the time.
GT4; much stiffer, but not in an unpleasant way, to my surprise on high speed BAB driving and I must say really bad road conditions, the GT feels not als planted as I would have expected, its a little bumpy, not unstable but not as road compliant as one might expect from Porsche.

Interior;
I`m a fan of old skool dials, as to me you can read them very quick and they are clear with the information you want, there's no information overload like the "modern" digidash"
I real like them on both cars, the Porsche PCM is updated and works faster and better compared to the 981 series. BMW is off course renowned for its fabulous good working iDrive system, fast, modern and intuitive as it is today

I like both cars for what they are, just sublime steering cars, fast, responsive, awesome in- and exterior, IMHO the 2 nicest cars I could wish for.

I drive them as long as I can, the EV`s are knocking at the door, I want that EV door closed as long as possible.

[jas1598]

Thanks Baege and Romo. I guess I simply need to drive them both (GTS and GT4) and see what I prefer. The GT4 is the whole package aesthetically, but maybe the GTS is a better fit if I'm not tracking. I don't mind a firmer ride and I would equipt a GT4 with the 18 way seats (not buckets), so I'm sure it would be plenty comfortable for longer drives. Only way to know is to try them both out.

[akhbhaat]

Originally Posted by Romo

to my surprise on high speed BAB driving and I must say really bad road conditions, the GT feels not als planted as I would have expected, its a little bumpy, not unstable but not as road compliant as one might expect from Porsche.

Yeah, one of the few flaws this car has: the OEM toe links are kinda crap and the the rear toe will go out of alignment under heavy compression (typically high speed bumps or braking). The rear is also overbraked since they lifted the brakes straight off the heavier and more rear-biased GT3. The car has enough tire to keep in check so it's not a serious problem, but it is unsettling.

Upgraded toe links (e.g. TPC) and running a slightly less aggressive pad compound in the rear should fix it (did for me).

[grl.racr]

Not worth it IMO. GT4 gearing sucks ass. PDK would help I'm sure, but not sure how much.

[Montaver]

I've owned an M2C and now a 981 GT4. akhbhaat summed it up pretty well I think.

For me the M2C was a good chassis, but let down by a dull engine and numb front end. I much preferred my e90 M3 for this reason, which offers some of the GT4's texture and emotion.

By contrast to the M2 the GT4 is a much more connected and visceral experience. Its way louder inside, the engine is roarty and gritty with a fantastic tone. The engine pops and gurgles, but sounds way more natural and less digital than the M2C. It has a harder edged motorsport vibe to it that makes it feel very special. The engine feels strong and relatively quick, but it sounds faster than it actually is. The suspension is orders of magnitude better than the M2, it's composed and supple over bumps but nicely connected to the road. You need a good quality set of coils to get close in an M car. Brakes are legit out of the box. Steering the GT4 transmits way more feedback than the M2C setup.

I track my GT4 all the time, and that's where it feels really magical. However its very fun on the road too as the car feels so alive and easily puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. People are always waving, talking to me at stop lights etc. so the car attracts a lot of positive attention. The gearing is long, but not a deal breaker at all and not something that is constantly part of your consciousness when you drive it. Its a loud cabin, so not the best car for huge distances either but your tolerance may vary.

For your use case though I agree you may like the GTS, its more civilized for long trips, and a bit softer edged. Either way the GT4 and GTS are fantastic cars, you cant really go wrong.

[Montaver]

Thinking about it a bit more I would also add, not sure if your a modder but properly dialled coilovers suspension goes a long way on the M2 platform and could extend your interest with it for a bit. The M2 is a very fun car in itself, I think you should try and drive a hot Cayman variant to see if it's for you.

[Spydert]

This was a great response!
Haven't driven a GT4 but did drive a GTS4.0 today and everything you said seems to jive with my takeaways and logical expectations of the 718 GT cars.

[jas1598]

After considerable thought, I've decided going the Cayman route is not enough of an upgrade over the M2 (It is an upgrade, but not enough of an upgrade at that price premium). Also, I'm in Denver, CO at over 5,000 ft. elevation, so I would have 15% horsepower loss with the GT4. Next logical step after the M2 seems to be the 911 S or 911 GTS. Again, I don't plan to track the car, so the GT3 seems unnecessary.

[bobert]

Originally Posted by jas1598

After considerable thought, I've decided going the Cayman route is not enough of an upgrade over the M2 (It is an upgrade, but not enough of an upgrade at that price premium). Also, I'm in Denver, CO at over 5,000 ft. elevation, so I would have 15% horsepower loss with the GT4. Next logical step after the M2 seems to be the 911 S or 911 GTS. Again, I don't plan to track the car, so the GT3 seems unnecessary.

A GT3 is always necessary.

I agree the 911 seems like the next logical step - I keep trying to talk myself into a 718 GTS 4.0 but can't get around two flaws:
1. its super tall gearing
2. it's not a 911

Unlikely to get my hands on a GT3 Touring even if I had the money so, yea, S or GTS makes sense (if a Carrera T doesn't appear sometime soon).

[Spydert]

“A GT3 is always necessary”. I totally agree!

I’m really waiting for the Carrera T as well.
I hope they release it before the anticipated hybridization of the 992.
I don’t want any hybrid nonsense. Just a manual trans in the base Carrera.

[clutchdj]

Originally Posted by jas1598

After considerable thought, I've decided going the Cayman route is not enough of an upgrade over the M2 (It is an upgrade, but not enough of an upgrade at that price premium). Also, I'm in Denver, CO at over 5,000 ft. elevation, so I would have 15% horsepower loss with the GT4. Next logical step after the M2 seems to be the 911 S or 911 GTS. Again, I don't plan to track the car, so the GT3 seems unnecessary.

It’s definitely worth it if you can get it at or around msrp. You won’t lose money. If you have the means, the Gt4 718 provides a better experience at speed; 100+. It’s a road trip car for couples or track rat. Street driving is VERY interactive (especially with 3 pedals) because it commands to be driven properly and does not like to be shifted slowly (the manual). The clutch has a hell of a lot less assist relative to the M2cs (I have both) because there’s a lot less inertia created with the light flywheel - GT4 & 991 GT3 share the same flywheel. The car is rewarding but a 718 owner needs some sort of backup car that can haul things or it can become a burden.

[SuperMarioM2]

I've owned a 2017 M2 M Performance Edition since new, and recently bought a 718 GT4. I tracked it the second day I owned it at Sebring. I tracked the M2 as well. The two cars couldn't be more different on the track AND on the street.

Clearly, the M2 is the street car with loads of torque and shove under acceleration, where the GT4 is smooth and has a linear power delivery that only has torque when in the upper rev range between 5,500 - 7,500 RPM. Perfect for the track. Contrast that to the M2's power band which lower down between 3,000 - 5,000 RPM. Perfect for the street.

The comments about "don't buy a GT4 if you're not going to track" couldn't be more accurate. I mean, what would I with the car if not track? On the street it's just too buttoned up. No powerslides, no exhaust burble, no exhaust sound without a modded exhaust. The GT4 is loud inside, but that's all induction noise. You literally can't hear the exhaust.

They are a great pair IMO. The M2 is king of the street and the GT4 king of the track. Pay off your M2 and then get a GT4 to park next to it. Then start tracking. You won't regret either decision.

[Andrew2]

Prior to the M2 OG DCT arriving I ran a 981 GT4 for two years, I kept the GT4 for another year before selling it ... two superb road cars, both in standard spec.

I tracked the GT4 once and am yet to track the M2, most all my enthusiastic driving is in the Highlands - Scotland

The GT4 is not a track only car, the tall gearing is not an issue - both cars share that motorsport heritage / DNA which makes them such good road cars