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      11-24-2019, 05:26 AM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kepler View Post
So many panties. So much bunching. If you think the price is too high or you simply can't afford it, let the market play out and see what happens. Maybe you'll get one at a discount down the road. And if not, the car was sour grapes anyway so you're all set.
I think that's what people are saying? No ones criticising the car, just that (like the M4CS and then M3CS) a lot feel it's a bit over priced and might wait it out for discount or get something for the same original RRP. Especially in the states where supply makes the market a bit odd.

Sour grapes and such comments arent really needed, no ones flaming the car. I could afford it and about a year ago I was the first in line for an application. Simply choosing not too. Seeing how the M3/4CS played out has me out of the game.

It's probably just about right in the states. Only really hardcore fans will follow through and pick these up. UK will be interesting to see many picked up their £90k M3CS for £60k ish. Not exactly encouraging us to jump right in and this definitely not sour grapes?
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      11-24-2019, 05:33 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Davil View Post
The M2C does have an incredibly comfortable ride though. Near perfect ride handling balance for me. Maybe I am a Manly man? Well I sort of am as I do support the Manly Sea Eagles.

Intrigued to discover what the extra options bring though.
I disagree. I dont think I am manly man then.

But that could be the roads up here

My M235 in comfort mode was very comfortable but in sport+ it was stiff, not Öhlins coilvers stiff, but stiff. Ride was always OK even in 19" M-per.

The m2c feels stiffer then my old R32 GTR with HKS Hipermaxxx coils on hardest! With that said - its nothing less of amazing car to drive.

I dont daily mine so I dont know what thats like but yeah.
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      11-24-2019, 06:00 AM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianboar View Post
Agree!

How much is a Porsche Panamera that I can put in sport+ mode and have the beast in it come out.

I for one do not want a car of 2 series size for that price, I'd look for other 2 door Porsche Cayman GTS
Porsche Panamera Turbo starts at $153K before options. Big increase over $83K.
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      11-24-2019, 06:23 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
Porsche Panamera Turbo starts at $153K before options. Big increase over $83K.
Yeah and I for sure would rather pick M5 over the titanic panamera.
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      11-24-2019, 07:13 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
But consider this ...a lot of those special CS parts that are ADDED need to be DELETED first at the factory. In others words there is no cost to BMW for the original parts that have been replaced with CS specific parts. Now do the math.
Ah yes. This is the same argument that software takes $0 to build or an iPhone costs $170 to build per unit. You are missing something.
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      11-24-2019, 07:42 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
But consider this ...a lot of those special CS parts that are ADDED need to be DELETED first at the factory. In others words there is no cost to BMW for the original parts that have been replaced with CS specific parts. Now do the math.
Obviously, the consumer would not have the same benefit trying to sell these items. It really doesn't matter what it costs BMW to produce this car. The measuring stick should be what would it cost the consumer; as the previous writer was accurately stating.
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      11-24-2019, 08:08 AM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
8k gets you from base blue brake to CCB.
From red bbk to CCB, it may be half the cost.
Let's distinguish 'cost for BMW' and 'cost for the M2 CS customer'.

When ordering an M2 CS you got a choice about (Brembo) brakes:
  • tick the M-CCB box and it will set you back $8K/€8K for the gold colored M-CCB (option code 2NK);
  • don't tick the M-CCB box, you get the red M Sport Brakes (code 2NH) as standard feature and the price will not change.
So no "half cost" favor to choose the M-CCB instead of the M Sport Brakes. On the M2 CS you cannot spec the original blue "regular" M2/M2C brakes (that allow fitting 18" wheels).

You could also approach it the other way around: on the M2 CS you get the red 2NH M Sport Brakes as standard feature (cost option on the M2C in Europe: silver 2NH). But of course, it's already included in the M2 CS base price. Seen from that perspective M-CCB on the M2 CS are actually the price of the 2NH + $8K/€8K (M-CCB factory installed). If you want to retrofit 2NH at a later stage, it will cost you even more: M-CCB (factory installed) + 2NH + cost of labor for the 2NH retrofit.

So, yeah, as regards the M2 CS customer wallet, M-CCB is even more costly for the M2 CS customer than the $8K/€8k option price: BMW gets the 2NH money from that customer as part of the M2 CS base price without installing 2NH onto the M2 CS of that customer.
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      11-24-2019, 08:22 AM   #228
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Off topic but I'll chime in with CCB cost should significantly decrease in cost and improve over the next few years. CC discs and pads should be an easy add to anyone with the 2nh option. The calipers will have a couple component differences, but likely inconsequential for most.
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      11-24-2019, 08:32 AM   #229
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Wow, BMW may be really trying to spread the love around the globe.

Flasch also told us that in the near future, the M Division will release the official Nurburgring times for the new BMW M2 CS. There are around 2,200 units produced globally and our sources say that between 350 and 400 of them will come to the United States.
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      11-24-2019, 08:48 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
8k gets you from base blue brake to CCB.
From red bbk to CCB, it may be half the cost.
Let's distinguish 'cost for BMW' and 'cost for the M2 CS customer'.

When ordering an M2 CS you got a choice about (Brembo) brakes:
  • tick the M-CCB box and it will set you back $8K/€8K for the gold colored M-CCB (option code 2NK);
  • don't tick the M-CCB box, you get the red M Sport Brakes (code 2NH) as standard feature and the price will not change.
So no "half cost" favor to choose the M-CCB instead of the M Sport Brakes. On the M2 CS you cannot spec the original blue "regular" M2/M2C brakes (that allow fitting 18" wheels).

You could also approach it the other way around: on the M2 CS you get the red 2NH M Sport Brakes as standard feature (cost option on the M2C in Europe: silver 2NH). But of course, it's already included in the M2 CS base price. Seen from that perspective M-CCB on the M2 CS are actually the price of the 2NH + $8K/€8K (M-CCB factory installed). If you want to retrofit 2NH at a later stage, it will cost you even more: M-CCB (factory installed) + 2NH + cost of labor for the 2NH retrofit.

So, yeah, as regards the M2 CS customer wallet, M-CCB is even more costly for the M2 CS customer than the $8K/€8k option price: BMW gets the 2NH money from that customer as part of the M2 CS base price without installing 2NH onto the M2 CS of that customer.
I doubt (I could be wrong though) BMW charges CCB option no differently between from the blue base brake (F80/82) and from the red BBK (F87 CS), which is a M2C sport brake equivalent.

Are you so sure of your claim at this point when there is no official info about it?

I know Porsche does it the reasonable and logical way. The turbo model gets metallic paint standard and special color for half the price a base Carrera model would.
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      11-24-2019, 08:56 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
Flasch also told us that in the near future, the M Division will release the official Nurburgring times for the new BMW M2 CS.
FWIW (unconfirmed), see here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
In this video is mentioned (02:35-02:40) that the M2 CS laps the Nürburgring Nordschleife 8 seconds faster than the M2 Competition.

If officially confirmed as accurate, this means a ± 7:44 lap time for the M2 CS.

BMW M lap times (source: here)
  • 7:27.88 = F82 M4 GTS
  • 7:38 = F80 M3 CS + F82 M4 CS
  • 7:38.92 = F90 M5
  • ±7:44 = F87 M2 CS
  • 7:48 = E92 M3 GTS
  • 7:50 = E46 M3 CSL
  • 7:52 = F82 M4
  • 7:52.36 = F87 M2 Competition
  • 7:54 = F10 M5 Competition
  • 7:58 = F87 M2
  • 8:05 = E92 M3
  • 8:07 = E52 Z8
  • 8:09 = E63 M6
  • 8:12 = E86 Z4 M Coupé
  • 8:13 = E60 M5
  • 8:15 = E82 1M
  • 8:22 = E46 M3
  • 8:22 = E36/8 M3
  • 8:35 = E36 M3
  • 8:50 = E30 M3
Someone reached out to me - out of the blue - earlier this month stating that - at least at that moment - BMW M did not officially time the M2 CS on the Nürburgring Nordschleife and on the Hockenheimring.

The YouTuber posted his M2 CS video on Nov 5 (among the first worldwide), standing next to the M2 CS in Belgium, filming with permission from BMW Belux (Belgium & Luxembourg). He must have gotten that piece of info straight from BMW Belux, no ? Or did he misunderstand what was told ?

During the closed room M2 CS preview event in Brussels on Sep 17, a BMW guy mentioned "about 10 seconds faster than the M2 Competition". Not sure if that was an impromptu statement that he made up - I don't think so. Oh well, a €91K base price was also repeatedly announced during that event and later (Nov 6) it turned out to be €96.5K.

"You take the Misano Blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe." 8 or 10 seconds faster: maybe depends on what time BMW officially considers as M2C lap time (compared to the 07:52.36 M2C lap time by Sport Auto in October 2018).
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      11-24-2019, 09:05 AM   #232
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I figured they'd target the 981 gt4. Old yes, but quite the testament for a 4 seat grocery getter. IMHO that's all they need to demonstrate. Want a faster 4 seater, then get a giulia QV. The guy running a 7:12 with his m2C shows what the m2 chassis is capable of producing. I suspect the M2CS would cost even less to get it there due to the adaptive suspension, but it would likely require custom tuning to slicks.
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      11-24-2019, 09:49 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
But consider this ...a lot of those special CS parts that are ADDED need to be DELETED first at the factory. In others words there is no cost to BMW for the original parts that have been replaced with CS specific parts. Now do the math.
Ah yes. This is the same argument that software takes $0 to build or an iPhone costs $170 to build per unit. You are missing something.
Understood. I'm not complaining about the price. I bought an M3 CS. (Talk about a car that got bashed for its price ) I was just making a valid point on cost to build and profit.
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      11-24-2019, 10:25 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
Are you so sure of your claim at this point when there is no official info about it?
I don't know for the US, but over here you can ask a BMW M dealer to configure/order an M2 CS (official). Except if I'm inaccurately informed, M-CCB (option 2NK) for the M2 CS is approx. €8K over here.

See also (Germany):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
More recently the German car magazine Sport Auto specified "ca. 90000" as M2 CS base price and "ca. 102000" with M-DCT (± €3900) and M-CCB (± €7900) options included (indicated as "driving dynamics relevant extras") (see the dedicated thread here):
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      11-24-2019, 10:26 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I'd love to have one of these cars, but it's out of my range at that price. Hopefully they won't hold their value like a damn 1M.

I wonder how much the dealers are really going to sell these for. Didn't the 2016, 2017 and some 2018's go for over sticker?
At this price point, I'd rather buy a used 911
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      11-24-2019, 10:38 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by steve090619 View Post
At this price point, I'd rather buy a used 911
Do it! Likely get CPO too
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      11-24-2019, 10:47 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
8k gets you from base blue brake to CCB.

From red bbk to CCB, it may be half the cost.
Is the M2cs even offered with the "base" (4/2 pot calipers) iron brakes?
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      11-24-2019, 10:49 AM   #238
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At this price point, I'd rather buy a used 911
I think most of us would, but it's not really the same type of car at all.
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      11-24-2019, 10:51 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Is the M2cs even offered with the "base" (4/2 pot calipers) iron brakes?
No. Either red colored 2NH M Sport Brakes or gold colored 2NK M-CCB.
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      11-24-2019, 10:52 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianboar View Post
Agree!

How much is a Porsche Panamera that I can put in sport+ mode and have the beast in it come out.

I for one do not want a car of 2 series size for that price, I'd look for other 2 door Porsche Cayman GTS
LOL. BMW has produced a lovely, exclusive car with a 450+ hp straight 6 paired with an honest-to-goodness manual and people want to play the "I can go faster for less" game. If you don't get it, you aren't the target audience. This car is already sold out.

Unlike the M3 CS and M4 GTS, the M2 CS can be paired with an actual clutch pedal. Brilliant. I can see the DCT cars taking a hit but not the 6MT. Unless you really do require maximum track performance, spec the stick.

Also, a lot of people mentioning GT4 as a better option. I don't buy that comparison: the M2 CS is "maximum BMW" in the sense that it combines BMW's best traditional ingredients in an exclusive package for enthusiasts. It could be the last "BMW BMW" (have you seen the grille on the upcoming compact M cars?). That alone makes it worth a garage space, for now. The GT4 is awesome but it lacks the legitimate motorsports engine available in the 991.2 GT3/Speedster. It isn't "maximum Porsche."

Looking forward to welcoming the CS to the family.
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      11-24-2019, 10:53 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
A lot of guys are now having their CCB rotors resurfaced by companies like RacingBrake. You can do it multiple times through their life span. CCB on the track work quite well, rotors do last longer than iron rotors. Just have to be careful removing wheels, don't chip the rotors.
Resurfacing does squat for worned out CCB. When they are operated at high temperature such as race track use, the carbon fibres inside the matrix oxidize and burn away. That is why weight is used to assess if CCB are worn out.
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      11-24-2019, 10:58 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Because they are targetting manly-men with this car.

Adaptive suspension is for guys or secretaries that want to run 20" wheels and for looks over performance but don't want a firm ride for their sensitive butts. I hope that helps answer your question.

Adaptive suspension isn't about comfort, it'a about improved performance. The fact that the damping is continuously adapting to the driving and road conditions multiple times per second keeps the tire better connected to the road and also improves handling response in transitions.
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