09-11-2020, 12:09 PM | #45 |
Captain
735
Rep 636
Posts
Drives: f32 430ix & 982 GT4 PDK
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring
|
None of these comparisons are really apples to apples.
2021 M2 CS DCT vs GT4 PDK would be closer. Even more interesting will be the 2023 M2 CS on the Z4/Supra platform with the S58 twin turbo vs a 2023 Cayman GT4 flat six...both would also be interesting with a hybrid performance motor to the front wheels while getting the new engines most power to the rear... By '25 600whp will be the norm on these cars after tunes and at that point it makes mechanical sense to put power to all wheels for traction like the upcoming G87 M4 CS and sadly i think that pure RWDs aren't great for businesses...thus the limited 200 unit 2023 Supra GRMNs will be RWD with S58s and BMW 7DCTs. More and more the manufacturers are offering only offering "lite" versions with RWD manuals so they can price their flagships higher. Either way we the consumer win because 3.0s 0-60 will be where the automakers will have to compete at for a ~$100k flagship 2 seater supercar killer... |
Appreciate
0
|
09-11-2020, 02:35 PM | #46 | |
Major
1719
Rep 1,390
Posts
Drives: 2020 X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: MA
|
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-11-2020, 03:05 PM | #47 | |
Captain
735
Rep 636
Posts
Drives: f32 430ix & 982 GT4 PDK
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring
|
Quote:
Takes out driver error and in a straight up drag race they are faster than manual / highest power models will be automatics. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-11-2020, 07:14 PM | #48 | ||
Major
1719
Rep 1,390
Posts
Drives: 2020 X3MC
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: MA
|
Quote:
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2020, 03:13 AM | #49 |
Major
409
Rep 1,349
Posts |
The DCT is the most unbelievable part, the M3/M4 don't get a S58/DCT combo but they're going to have it for a limited run Supra? And they're going to get the full Competition tuned engine in RWD when every other vehicle has it paired with AWD and the ZF 8HP?
__________________
21 BMW X5 xDrive40i
20 BMW M2 CS 19 Mini Cooper S Countryman ALL4 6MT |
Appreciate
1
MDuckie96.00 |
09-12-2020, 10:35 AM | #50 |
Enlisted Member
57
Rep 33
Posts |
Having owned an M2C and now a 718 GT4 I'd say both cars are amazing. Each in there own way. Drag racing them side by side does neither car justice. Both punch above there class on track too. Just got back from 2 days at Watkins's Glen with the GT4 and I was consistently 3-4s faster than I was in my M2C. That said I also gave another M2C a point by or two out there. I love my GT4 but also loved hauling 4 extra wheels in my M2C and being comfortable for the 4-5hr drive. I read many of these comparison threads. Rather than comparing, appreciate what each brings to the table. Can't go wrong with either.
|
Appreciate
5
|
09-14-2020, 09:12 AM | #51 | |
Major General
2759
Rep 6,760
Posts |
Quote:
Maybe something like LeftFootBraking is you want to stay on the cool side of things.
__________________
2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-14-2020, 09:22 AM | #52 | |
Major General
2759
Rep 6,760
Posts |
Quote:
When I am at the track and it starts to rain, do all the GT3’s and GT4’s envy the fact that I put my PS4S “rain tire” on and go have fun on the track? Of course they do. When it’s dry, do I envy that extra special driving interaction the GT3/4 has compared to my M? Of course I do. Having inbuilt rain tires is great when it rains but when it doesn’t I do have to muck around with changing wheels. Do I envy the “arrive and drive” ease of a GT4? Of course I do. When I take my family out on weekends and both my son and I terrify my wife on the twisty bits, am I having the cake and eating it too? Of course I do. Incidentally due to very practical considerations I could own a GT3 but not a GT4, since to make it up the driveway the car needs to have sufficient clearance or a front end lift. Sooo many things go into making a buying decision...
__________________
2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 3.0i 2022 X2 M35i |
|
Appreciate
1
sdhotwn2128.50 |
09-14-2020, 09:24 AM | #53 | |
Mmmm... Bavarian
2129
Rep 1,690
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
M2 CS
2023 CB X5 45e 2018 i3 94 2014 Cayman S |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-12-2020, 09:32 PM | #54 | |
Captain
735
Rep 636
Posts
Drives: f32 430ix & 982 GT4 PDK
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring
|
Quote:
EDIT: READ THE SECOND SENTENCE AND CLICK INTO THE LINK FROM BESTCARWEB. Sources from bestcarweb...which has been fairly reliable for leaking JDM car info, cite Tetsuya Tada, chief engineer of the Toyota Supra. I'm gonna go with my instinct that an automotive journalist in japan citing Tada is a more reliable source than you...we can be civil and call it greater than zero chance...cheers mate Last edited by Avaley; 10-13-2020 at 01:49 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-12-2020, 09:42 PM | #55 | |
Captain
735
Rep 636
Posts
Drives: f32 430ix & 982 GT4 PDK
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Nürburgring
|
Quote:
"The transmission to be combined is a 7-speed M-DCT, and it was said that the BMW side was initially reluctant to supply this power train to Toyota, but it was realized by the efforts of CE Tetsuya Tada." edit: Its also going to cost well over 100k USD.... Last edited by Avaley; 10-12-2020 at 10:15 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-13-2020, 12:53 PM | #56 | |
Major
409
Rep 1,349
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
21 BMW X5 xDrive40i
20 BMW M2 CS 19 Mini Cooper S Countryman ALL4 6MT |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-13-2020, 01:37 PM | #57 |
Lieutenant Colonel
2238
Rep 1,688
Posts |
The amount of opinions you see on the gearing you would think Porsche sold more GT4's than Camrys in 2016. In reality the gearing isn't really a problem, particularly on track. Is it optimal? No. But when you actually drive a GT4 and compare it with an M2C you realize they are completely different cars.
The GT4 feels alive, connected, with perfectly weighted inputs. Its an experience to drive. Compare that with the M2C which is effective, fun, but sterile. And I say that as someone who owned an M2C and sold it after 9 months disappointed. The e9x M3 is far more comparable to the GT4 as the engine invokes emotion, I'd take it over an M2C 10 times out of 10. I think the e9x M3 is the benchmark M car, and probably the best M3 ever made. The M2C suffers from the same numbness that afflicts all modern BMW's, its the best car BMW makes but it wouldn't even feature on a greatest hits album. The M2 CS doesn't improve any of the cars flaws, which is a shame as if there were any enthusiasts left at BMW they could of done something really special with it as theres a great chassis underneath. |
10-13-2020, 03:23 PM | #58 | |
Major
4051
Rep 1,232
Posts
Drives: BMW F87 M2 CS (6MT)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Europa
|
Quote:
__________________
Sometimes, the simplest recipes, done well, with quality ingredients, are the tastiest, - evo Car of the Year 2020
2020 BMW F87 M2 CS - 6MT - Misano Blue Metallic |
|
Appreciate
1
MDuckie96.00 |
10-13-2020, 03:54 PM | #59 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
2238
Rep 1,688
Posts |
Quote:
As for Chris Harris I very much respect his opinion, he bought the M2C because he was putting too many miles on the 1M. Bear in mind he also has many other cars to drive. I owned the M2C and formed my own opinion, what other reviewers who had the car for 10 minutes have to say doesn't really interest me. Hence why I read forums, because you can get actual information on owning cars not a spec readout followed by some drifts around an airfield. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-13-2020, 05:50 PM | #60 | |
Captain
568
Rep 658
Posts |
Quote:
I did own m3 e92 and it was also: - significantly better interrior materials - first reliable m3 - glorious V8 - better stereo sound - exhaust sound (probably the best of M3s ever as per my taste) But what is definitely better in M2C is: - handling and chassis - shorter wheelbase which delivers more fun while driving it I let go M5 f90 after 12 months of ownership as it turned out to be a boring car. The M2C is pretty fun and I am enjoying it in its form. I also own 991.2 GT3 and it is a totally different car but I jump in M2C from time to time and find it also a great car to drive. P.S. I don’t think M2cs is making any sense given its price range. For this price Cayman GTS 4.0 is by far a better choice hands down. |
|
Appreciate
1
Montaver2237.50 |
10-13-2020, 07:42 PM | #61 | |
Mmmm... Bavarian
2129
Rep 1,690
Posts |
Quote:
The GTS4.0 thing is a very dead horse around here... but it's arguably not a better daily driver, and without question not a better set of back seats.
__________________
M2 CS
2023 CB X5 45e 2018 i3 94 2014 Cayman S |
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-13-2020, 08:16 PM | #62 |
Lieutenant Colonel
1996
Rep 1,759
Posts |
If Toyota is smart they would release the Supra B58 with 6MT and they will sell like hot cakes
If they are even smarter they would persuade BMW to hand over the 470hp S58 and couple with a 6MT. Enthusiasts will be all over it like bees on honey. Dare I say even GT3 owners would want one to track or for some back roads fun |
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2020, 04:37 AM | #63 | ||
Captain
568
Rep 658
Posts |
Quote:
It should have been as M3 e92 had pretty nice Nappa leather and I had a car with extended leather option. Quote:
M2C price is fair. M2CS for that price tag is not. It has very small improvements over M2C but the price delta is quite noticeable. GTS 4.0 is a car of a higher level than M2CS without a question. Handling, built quality, interrior materials, midengine car, etc. I am quite skeptical anyone would say that M5 is of the same level with 911 GT3 as an example. And practicality of all wheel drive and all other features wont help M5 in this regard. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2020, 06:07 AM | #65 | |
Brigadier General
6571
Rep 3,086
Posts
Drives: M2 CS, 18 Vantage AMR, 00 WRX
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Australia
|
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
10-14-2020, 08:22 AM | #66 |
Mmmm... Bavarian
2129
Rep 1,690
Posts |
I guess this is just one of those different perspective things. To me the leather is pretty trivial in the quality. All the door panels, pulls, switchgear, instrument cluster design, sound insulation, lighting, etc is effectively the same. So saying the interiors are appreciably different because of seat covering and a few extra leather bits doesn't register with me. I get where you are coming from though at least, so thanks for explaining it as now I can see where that not being available on the M2 would matter for some people.
__________________
M2 CS
2023 CB X5 45e 2018 i3 94 2014 Cayman S |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|