[akkando]

Originally Posted by Mo Reviews

The die-hards weren't happy with the M-Lite N55 in the OG F87 either, but it still sold like hot pancakes! Judging by the way things went down with the F87 generation, I just don't think BMW would want to take another gamble by changing a tried and tested recipe, especially considering the gamble they've already taken with the aesthetics of the G8X M3/4.

Besides, what's wrong with the used F87s?

That's completely different. Back when the M2 came out you either got an N55 M2, walked away, or waited for the M2 CS for $30k more. Most people don't want an detuned S55 bad enough to wait four years and pay 30k more, so they bought an N55 M2.

As luck would have it, for emissions related reasons it made sense for BMW to give the CS as model year 2019 to base M2 buyers. As if from a gift from the gods for M2C buyers COVID happened and made their car more rare and lose almost no value. No one was predicting emissions would make BMW stick the S55 in the base car with HUGE brakes and new seats for a few bucks.

If people had known a Comp version was coming with the S55 with much larger brakes and seats I guarantee you a TON of N55 buyers would have sat out until MY19 Comp cars came out. God knows I wouldn't have bought the N55 car.


Now the G87 is coming, I won't be fooled again, and for 4k just get the s58 and whatever else they throw in with it. I think it's going to be hard for BMW to justify and car reviewers to justify the b58 in an M2 after everyone got a taste of the S55 in M2C.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Mo Reviews

Ha! I wish.

I can only go by recent trends. They took a gamble with the G8X M3/4, I just don't think they'll have the risk appetite to take another massive risk on the same generation...

As for your speculation on the detuned S58, do you mean a "soft" software cripple or the full extent of the cripple hammer? I.e. single turbo/smaller turbos, etc?

software, same as they did on the s55, same as they do on the s58 currently.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by akkando

I also expect BMW to hold back popular stuff like the bucket seats for the comp or CS version, CF roof probably again even though the rumor says no.

As indicated earlier, metal roof will be standard on the G87 M2 with sunroof optional. CFRP roof will be optional.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by akkando

Back when the M2 came out you either got an N55 M2, walked away, or waited for the M2 CS for $30k more. Most people don't want an detuned S55 bad enough to wait four years and pay 30k more, so they bought an N55 M2.
As luck would have it, for emissions related reasons it made sense for BMW to give the CS as model year 2019 to base M2 buyers. As if from a gift from the gods for M2C buyers COVID happened and made their car more rare and lose almost no value. No one was predicting emissions would make BMW stick the S55 in the base car with HUGE brakes and new seats for a few bucks.
If people had known a Comp version was coming with the S55 with much larger brakes and seats I guarantee you a TON of N55 buyers would have sat out until MY19 Comp cars came out. God knows I wouldn't have bought the N55 car.
Now the G87 is coming, I won't be fooled again, and for 4k just get the s58 and whatever else they throw in with it. I think it's going to be hard for BMW to justify and car reviewers to justify the b58 in an M2 after everyone got a taste of the S55 in M2C.

Yeah, for some traces buried by time: see here.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Yeah, for some traces buried by time: see here.

I've been waiting for you to mention the F87 C, CS, CSL saga again.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Mo Reviews

Just playing devil's advocate here, but don't you think BMW knows that people know that now? I.e. wait a couple of years and buy the comp... it's actually really interesting watching this play out. It's literally like a game of who blinks first.

If both the OG and the C/CS come with the S58, why would you not just buy the OG and remap it for a fraction of the cost, especially if it came with all the other options that are likely going to be standard on the C/CS? I know most enthusiasts would probably opt for this option...

With that in mind, BMW are wholly aware of the stir the B58 has created, don't you think they'd want to capitalise on the hype by sticking it on their best chassis (Sorry not sorry! Haha)?

Btw, why don't/didn't you like the N55, out of curiosity?

I mean why buy an f82 ZCP when you could just tune a base f82? Why buy the f82 CS when you could just tune a base car? Didn't stop BMW from putting the S55 in all but the CS. BMW also didn't put a the b58 in the base g82 M4, but I guess they could have. I don't think that will fly though.

There is no indication of a b58 g87 but there is every indication the s58 is in the g87 test mules.

I don't think they would capitalize on a b58 in the g87, they would be sitting on lots getting a discount, everyone waiting on the sidelines for s58 version if it was just a few more grand. Again, they could put the b58 in the base M3 and M4 if they wanted to and try to "capitalize" on that, but they didn't.


The N55 has very weak cooling and just doesn't like to rev like an s55 can. If you're going to tune you can get A LOT more out of an s55 with just software.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Mo Reviews

Difference is, some (most) markets don't actually get the base G8X M3/4... but most, if not all, markets got the F87 OG as well as the subsequent S55 variants.

If the OG G8X M2 came with a detuned S58, would you consider buying it or would you still wait for the C/CS? With a re-booming tuning scene following the introduction of the ever-popular B58, BMW will be aware that there will be a sizeable portion of their customers who will skimp out and go semi-skimmed if they release it with exactly the same engine. So my hunch is; they're either going to release it with the B58 (which will sell due to its popularity), or seek to release both the OG and C with varying levels of the S58 concurrently, but enhance the latter with unique options.

I'd probably consider buying the base MT car, that's what I am waiting for. I certainly would buy the base g80 over the comp. If the engine tune has a crappy curve where power goes flat for 2000+ rpm and the ECU isn't cracked for aftermarket tune I would likely put my money elsewhere. I want my replacement car to want to rev.

No aftermarket tunes for b58, s55, or s58 car since like June/July/Aug of 2020.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Mo Reviews

EcuTek, a company I work with very closely in the UK tell me they are almost there... so hopefully, all going well, it won't be long before it's cracked.

You won't like the B58/S58 very much then, they're not as Rev-happy as some of the previous generations. Have you driven one by any chance?

I have not experienced the s58. I liked the base g80/g82 dyno curve I saw and what people have said about the motor for the most part, but am concerned with the lag people experience below 3k. If I don't like the g87 hopefully other people do and I have an option of picking up a used s55 M2C for cheaper than today and I will tune it, or I go a different direction. g80 MT boat car. Porsche something. Be happy with what I have and save my money.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Mo Reviews

There won't be a link to something we've see at our physical workshop, however early indications are that they are similar to the bearing issues with the S65, but keep your eyes peeled as things start to surface over the next few months. 👍🏽

Well aren't you a Negative Nancy..

A typical BMW motor is revised several times over during its self-life, I'm sure if there is some sort of deficiency with the oiling system, triggering a bearing failure - as you're claiming - I have faith that it would be properly addressed before it hits a mass production cycle.

I ain't worried, I'll have warrant and I know how to play the system; if the motor is a dud, so be it but I believe its fair to give BMW the benefit of the doubt before you start trashing them for some unsubstantiated issue.

Unless you have something right now that could prove otherwise.. 🧐

[W///]

Originally Posted by Mo Reviews

Your logic is based on utter idealism in a utopian world where corporate greed doesn't exist.

Regrettably, in reality, you only need to look at history to disprove your rather fallacious point.

A few pointers: S85 (bearing issues), S65 (bearing issues), N55 (bearing issues) and S55 (crank hub issues), to name a few.

Of course you have a 3 year warranty, but my point was mainly aimed at those who buy their cars to keep beyond this honeymoon period. 👍🏽

By the way, bearing issues are not always triggered by deficiencies in the oiling system.

Fine, aim it at me then. As an owner of BOTH an S54 and S65, one with 96k miles, the other with 93k miles, I can tell you the honeymoon period is far from over yet. And guess what, none of my BMW's have ever had a warranty.

Personally, I don't really understand what you're trying to bring to this thread. The sky is falling, but none of us have seen the car in person or have driven the G87. Do you think all of a sudden, none of us are going to be interested in this car anymore because of your "expertise"?

As far as the S58 is concerned, I'm not remotely worried about it. Firstly, I plan to keep it stock if I ever get this car, because these things are already plenty fast. If I wanted something faster, I would have gone electric. Secondly, I wouldn't be surprised if something does come up as the mileages increase. Just part of the game as far as I'm concerned. I've been keeping an eye out on the F97/98 forum and seems fine to me so far.

[///AVM]

Would BMW use the same exhaust set-up with different engines?

///AVM

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by W///

Fine, aim it at me then. As an owner of BOTH an S54 and S65, one with 96k miles, the other with 93k miles, I can tell you the honeymoon period is far from over yet. And guess what, none of my BMW's have ever had a warranty.

Personally, I don't really understand what you're trying to bring to this thread. The sky is falling, but none of us have seen the car in person or have driven the G87. Do you think all of a sudden, none of us are going to be interested in this car anymore because of your "expertise"?

As far as the S58 is concerned, I'm not remotely worried about it. Firstly, I plan to keep it stock if I ever get this car, because these things are already plenty fast. If I wanted something faster, I would have gone electric. Secondly, I wouldn't be surprised if something does come up as the mileages increase. Just part of the game as far as I'm concerned. I've been keeping an eye out on the F97/98 forum and seems fine to me so far.

Someone buy this man a proper drink (or E38). Well deserved for breaking the 'mo.

[Artemis]

Update: see here

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

From yesterday's update to Future BMW model info thread.

• G87 M2 will be available with a manual and an automatic.
• Most options will be the same as G80/G82, and I don't see much of that decontenting that was done with the original F87 compared with F80/F82. Though ceramic brakes and bucket seats seem to be missing, all the drivetrain and suspension things are the same as G82, and even carbon roof will be an option.
• The wheels will be 19" front and 20" rear, G87 specific design.
• The first four months of its production will fall into the "M 50th anniversary" period so expect the initial run to become somewhat collectible.
• And the new dashboard will be standard from day one.

[W///]

Originally Posted by lemetier

Someone buy this man a proper drink (or E38). Well deserved for breaking the 'mo.

Now that would be one hell of a gift, please and thank you.

P.S. His reply back to that post was quite entertaining actually. Not really giving Youtubers a better name after that.

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by akkando

I have not experienced the s58. I liked the base g80/g82 dyno curve I saw and what people have said about the motor for the most part, but am concerned with the lag people experience below 3k. If I don't like the g87 hopefully other people do and I have an option of picking up a used s55 M2C for cheaper than today and I will tune it, or I go a different direction. g80 MT boat car. Porsche something. Be happy with what I have and save my money.

Where is the link for the s58 turbo lag below 3k RPM?

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Hegge

Where is the link for the s58 turbo lag below 3k RPM?

Not sure about any links or said turbo lag??

What I can confirm after nearly 1,000 miles seat time in the G80 M3C . . the S58 is an absolute beast.

///AVM

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Hegge

Where is the link for the s58 turbo lag below 3k RPM?

There is no turbo lag in the S58. At least in the M4 Comp that I drove. It's a bloody tidal wave of torque. So much that when I got back in my M2CS I thought it was naturally aspirated.

[Advevo]

G42 240i

10 cm longer
Wheelbase 5 cm longer
Front 5 cm wider
Rear 3 cm wider.

I can quess the weight.

It is a 3 series now.

I am done with bmw philosophy to go bigger and heavier. My m2 manual is proberly my last M2.

Better buy me an x3m with a cayman RS behind on the trailer to the trackdays.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by akkando

That's completely different. Back when the M2 came out you either got an N55 M2, walked away, or waited for the M2 CS for $30k more. Most people don't want an detuned S55 bad enough to wait four years and pay 30k more, so they bought an N55 M2.

As luck would have it, for emissions related reasons it made sense for BMW to give the CS as model year 2019 to base M2 buyers. As if from a gift from the gods for M2C buyers COVID happened and made their car more rare and lose almost no value. No one was predicting emissions would make BMW stick the S55 in the base car with HUGE brakes and new seats for a few bucks.

If people had known a Comp version was coming with the S55 with much larger brakes and seats I guarantee you a TON of N55 buyers would have sat out until MY19 Comp cars came out. God knows I wouldn't have bought the N55 car.


Now the G87 is coming, I won't be fooled again, and for 4k just get the s58 and whatever else they throw in with it. I think it's going to be hard for BMW to justify and car reviewers to justify the b58 in an M2 after everyone got a taste of the S55 in M2C.

I bought my 2018 M2 clearly knowing it was ending production the end of June 2018

There is actually no way I'd want the S55 because of how horrific it sounds

To this day I am absolutely thrilled I bought my M2 when I did

[baege]

Originally Posted by Davil

There is no turbo lag in the S58. At least in the M4 Comp that I drove. It's a bloody tidal wave of torque. So much that when I got back in my M2CS I thought it was naturally aspirated.

wait which one did you think was naturally aspirated when you got back in? the S55?

[Davil]

Originally Posted by baege

wait which one did you think was naturally aspirated when you got back in? the S55?

The S55 tune in the M2CS. I had to rev it to feel anything. Felt like I had gone back in time.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Davil

There is no turbo lag in the S58. At least in the M4 Comp that I drove. It's a bloody tidal wave of torque. So much that when I got back in my M2CS I thought it was naturally aspirated.

There is definitely turbo lag at low RPM with the S58.
Definitely less visible if you keep it at 3,500+ RPM