[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

He'll show up in the manual, end up in last place and tell you, "But i bet i HAD MORE FUN THAN YOU!!!"

Hmmm.

More fun? No. Less expense, yes.

But, I have a buddy with a spec Miata. Every time I catch him on the track, I do a little "follow" with him for a lap or two.

I have to admit, I have 90% of the fun, with only 25% of the wear. He is BLISTERING it in the turns, and while I CAN be a little faster, he's pretty damn close. When we're puttering down the straight at 110mph (I'm able to get 160 on the straight away), waiting till the last damn second to brake behind him shows me why everybody thinks Miata brakes are so good. But mine are JUST as good at stopping this 4000 pound lump from 110 as his are stopping that little go-cart.

I love being stupid fast in this 4 door sedan that I haul the track tires to and from the track. He has to have a trailer, and space to store the race car, and the tow vehicle.

But, he has a crapton of fun, despite being MUCH MUCH slower per lap. And has cheap parts. And uses less gas. And uses less brakes. And has less tire wear.

"Fun" is individual. For me, it's the auto M5 CS. But, I'd have 90% of the fun in a little Miata. Choices. Choices.

Shawn

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Hmmm.

More fun? No. Less expense, yes.

But, I have a buddy with a spec Miata. Every time I catch him on the track, I do a little "follow" with him for a lap or two.

I have to admit, I have 90% of the fun, with only 25% of the wear. He is BLISTERING it in the turns, and while I CAN be a little faster, he's pretty damn close. When we're puttering down the straight at 110mph (I'm able to get 160 on the straight away), waiting till the last damn second to brake behind him shows me why everybody thinks Miata brakes are so good. But mine are JUST as good at stopping this 4000 pound lump from 110 as his are stopping that little go-cart.

I love being stupid fast in this 4 door sedan that I haul the track tires to and from the track. He has to have a trailer, and space to store the race car, and the tow vehicle.

But, he has a crapton of fun, despite being MUCH MUCH slower per lap. And has cheap parts. And uses less gas. And uses less brakes. And has less tire wear.

"Fun" is individual. For me, it's the auto M5 CS. But, I'd have 90% of the fun in a little Miata. Choices. Choices.

Shawn

My friend tracks his hellcat. He loves it so much he's going to get an old ass 240sx with a 5 speed. I asked him why, he said, "it's cheaper". He did not say anything about wanting to try that experience because it's a manual. Old ass cars, manual were the way to go. I can concede to that. I was in that era. Back then at one point i had 4 manual cars. I thought i was in heaven.

Boy i grew out of that. As cars became much more efficient, advanced, comfortable and easy to go as fast as you want. I still enjoy that experience, moreso because of how easy it is car makers make these cars with the auto. They're fast, they have many different settings, they have many different characteristics (like if the car is your daily).

Some people don't get it. It would be one thing if someone doesn't know how to drive a manual and root for auto. But someone who's done the work for decades, making the transition and still having fun and enjoying the other side, i will absolutely take that as enough evidence to prove a point that you can have fun with the auto.

Hence my purpose in this thread here. On other forums, the results would be exactly the same. So i'm not surprised at how this debate turned out.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

My friend tracks his hellcat. He loves it so much he's going to get an old ass 240sx with a 5 speed. I asked him why, he said, "it's cheaper". He did not say anything about wanting to try that experience because it's a manual. Old ass cars, manual were the way to go. I can concede to that. I was in that era. Back then at one point i had 4 manual cars. I thought i was in heaven.

Boy i grew out of that. As cars became much more efficient, advanced, comfortable and easy to go as fast as you want. I still enjoy that experience, moreso because of how easy it is car makers make these cars with the auto. They're fast, they have many different settings, they have many different characteristics (like if the car is your daily).

Some people don't get it. It would be one thing if someone doesn't know how to drive a manual and root for auto. But someone who's done the work for decades, making the transition and still having fun and enjoying the other side, i will absolutely take that as enough evidence to prove a point that you can have fun with the auto.

Hence my purpose in this thread here. On other forums, the results would be exactly the same. So i'm not surprised at how this debate turned out.

Once, at a track event, some smart-assed Frenchman asked "where's the button you push to make it cook you breakfast".

My reply was "the one you see on my bumper when I go by you".

Technology marches on. As it does, and you track, if you enjoy the hobby, you have a lot of choices. Fast, or fun, or a balance of both.

The REAL debate at track is you have three values - fast, cheap, or reliable. Pick any two. You CANNOT have all three. That's the biggest compromise.

Shawn

[hihowareyougood]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Read the thread.

Someone said you can ONLY have fun in a manual. I said that wasn't true.

Which is still the case. Everything else was just icing on the cake.

Deal with it.

Awfully defensive considering it was one person who said this. And they hardly speak for the entirety of the manual community. Take a chill pill; you're coming across as the auto-fanboy in this case.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Once, at a track event, some smart-assed Frenchman asked "where's the button you push to make it cook you breakfast".

My reply was "the one you see on my bumper when I go by you".

Technology marches on. As it does, and you track, if you enjoy the hobby, you have a lot of choices. Fast, or fun, or a balance of both.

The REAL debate at track is you have three values - fast, cheap, or reliable. Pick any two. You CANNOT have all three. That's the biggest compromise.

Shawn

I agree. If anything technology put the manual in the grave.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by possible335i2008

Love my m340i, it's perfect but lately I have been missing shifting and even a little nostalgic for my previous car a 2018 Sti. Yeah the STI was a nightmare when it came to reliability especially tuned but it was pretty raw driving experience wise, but it was way slower than my m340 even with an e85 tune. Yet I'm still kinda browsing around and looking at 2020's, talk me out of my madness. Also to add to the situation I got a ridiculous deal on my m340 and I can basically get more for it now than I paid for it, so yeah.

There was a like a six month period where I didn't have a manual performance car in the garage.
Those were the worst six months of my life lol. I'm a car enthusiast, I enjoy the art of driving, the only real way to get that, for me at least, is in a manual. If you have a leg injury and can't use the clutch or if you have back issues or something, by all means, get an auto and be done with it. But if you're able to, a manual is only way to fully enjoy the experience. So to the OP, trade that auto in for a six speed and don't look back.

[eliphil]

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

There was a like a six month period where I didn't have a manual performance car in the garage.
Those were the worst six months of my life lol. I'm a car enthusiast, I enjoy the art of driving, the only real way to get that, for me at least, is in a manual. If you have a leg injury and can't use the clutch or if you have back issues or something, by all means, get an auto and be done with it. But if you're able to, a manual is only way to fully enjoy the experience. So to the OP, trade that auto in for a six speed and don't look back.

I agree, nothing like it for me but to each their own

[NealfromNZ]

I think the garage has all gearbox’s covered , manual 4 speed SCCR dog box, DCT , auto , motorcycle with 6 speed sequential manual.

One I miss the most is the e46 m3s SMG ironically. Finding the DCT a bit too refined.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by NealfromNZ

One I miss the most is the e46 m3s SMG ironically.

I knew there had to be someone who actually liked this transmission. Never met anyone who did. I spent half of a 2-day M-school in one and the rest in the manual. Night and day difference but at the end of a long, hot day, the SMG was the lazy way around the track.

So rough in daily use that it mandated PDC for parking.

[HNSKP]

Sums it up for me

[vt100]

Originally Posted by HNSKP

Sums it up for me

This is awesome! Where to buy one?

[NealfromNZ]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

I knew there had to be someone who actually liked this transmission. Never met anyone who did. I spent half of a 2-day M-school in one and the rest in the manual. Night and day difference but at the end of a long, hot day, the SMG was the lazy way around the track.

So rough in daily use that it mandated PDC for parking.

Took me about 6 months to adjust from manual. From that point on you can do everything like blip on down change , flat foot 3rd to 4th track sweepers without unloading the car etc. also speed of gear change and no .5 second torque delay as you got with manuals.

For daily like 4th shift stage was really good for manual and 2nd stage for auto ( didn't use )

I would laugh when my manual buddies would drive it as they couldn't master it and I was generally in for a jerky ride.

[HNSKP]

Originally Posted by vt100

This is awesome! Where to buy one?

https://www.blipshift.com/products/b...40951064035373

I've had some of their shirts for years. Average material but lots of great designs (most rotate) and holds up to washings.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by HNSKP

Sums it up for me

I dunno... I had way more fun going down the corkscrew in my DCT M3 CS than driving to Target in any of my 6MTs of the past. It all depends on how you use it.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by jmg

I dunno... I had way more fun going down the corkscrew in my DCT M3 CS than driving to Target in any of my 6MTs of the past. It all depends on how you use it.

Again I ask: If your car offered autonomous steering and braking would you use that on the track, too? If it made you faster? Well, I guess you do have electric power-steering, ABS, and Traction Control already. Where do you two-pedal guys draw the line at "improving" your driving on the track? Just curious. I've been in the instructor's chair enough to know it would help some people.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Again I ask: If your car offered autonomous steering and braking would you use that on the track, too? If it made you faster? Well, I guess you do have electric power-steering, ABS, and Traction Control already. Where do you two-pedal guys draw the line at "improving" your driving on the track? Just curious. I've been in the instructor's chair enough to know it would help some people.

No, I would not use autonomous steering and braking, that is dangerous. My current track car, the G82, does have collision prevention and lane assist aids that includes automatic braking and steering. However, that is turned off in TRACK MODE because of how close we can sometimes get hard braking into corners behind other cars, and how we use the red and white curbing as part of the track.

The DCT or even the ZF8 in the G82, however, are not autonomous since I am always in manual mode, where I choose the gear, and I choose when to shift and at what RPM.

I also turn off traction control completely, and I threshold brake on the track, so ABS is not used unless it's absolutely an emergency. I've had several off track incidences, and yes, ABS was engaged for those instances, but I was already sideways so threshold braking was no longer the best option. Threshold braking, as I was taught, is to optimize braking and help transition front to rear weight distribution during trail braking in corner entry. Once I'm going sideways at triple digit speeds headed towards a tire wall, stopping takes priority over slip angle.

Is tracking potentially more fun in the 6MT? I can't deny that. Does it mean that I'm "bored" on the track with a DCT or ZF8? Obviously not!

[HNSKP]

Originally Posted by jmg

I dunno... I had way more fun going down the corkscrew in my DCT M3 CS than driving to Target in any of my 6MTs of the past. It all depends on how you use it.

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5fd98685_h.jpg[/img]

A bit tongue in cheek of course. I wouldn't kick a M3 CS or 458 Italia out of my garage solely for not having a manual.

Beautiful shot btw.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by HNSKP

A bit tongue in cheek of course. I wouldn't kick a M3 CS or 458 Italia out of my garage solely for not having a manual.

Beautiful shot btw.

Thanks! As a photographer myself, I wish I could take credit for the photo, but unfortunately, I'm stuck behind the wheel. Unless I let someone borrow my car, I'll never be taking a photo of my own car on the track. I did, however, do all the post processing work on this photo since my Buddy let me have the RAW files.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by HNSKP

A bit tongue in cheek of course. I wouldn't kick a M3 CS or 458 Italia out of my garage solely for not having a manual.

Beautiful shot btw.

i got rid of my 458 for that reason. replaced with a 2018 gt3 6mt

my regular car was a f80 manual and weekend was a 458. i'd rather have it the other way around. have a dct for the every day stuff and a manual for fun on the weekend.

problem is no manual supercars really exist now. you'd have go back to a gallardo, f430, viper, or 1st gen r8 v10 if you want a manual sports car.

[HNSKP]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i got rid of my 458 for that reason. replaced with a 2018 gt3 6mt

my regular car was a f80 manual and weekend was a 458. i'd rather have it the other way around. have a dct for the every day stuff and a manual for fun on the weekend.

problem is no manual supercars really exist now. you'd have go back to a gallardo, f430, viper, or 1st gen r8 v10 if you want a manual sports car.

Porsche's been carrying the mantle with their gt cars while everyone else is chasing numbers.

While not exactly a supercar, the Lotus Evora is pretty exotic, handbuilt, and gives 90% of the oldschool supercar feels, especially the later iterations. Looking to pick one up myself.

[mikado463]

totally get the 'auto thing' for track use, regardless, I row the gears in both of my girls .....

[kyleb350]

I'm in my first auto in about 15 years and have had manual M3/4's up until now. While the ZF8 is amazing and the up/down shifting process is overall faster by far, I'm still waiting for that shift instead of being a part of the shifting (if that makes sense). Stop and go traffic is a b*tch, and it's slower than an automatic, but I'll gladly take a manual for the engagement.