[ZM2]

Originally Posted by TUDMG

For reference once I get my misfiring resolved, how much ethanol was in the tank when you got the 7.2?



Yeah I’m still a little skeptical about VD. Unless conditions are near perfect, my personal policy is to refrain from posting them unless it’s to get an idea of power delivery (not exact power/torque numbers)

I always shoot for E50.

We can hit the NGP dyno on the same day once you get yours sorted and we get a few revisions of this map. We'll be able to compare the TTE460 vs Pure 500 on the same map, and different maps on the same car.

[TUDMG]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Wagner Evo 3.

Take some logs at the track next time so you can check temps. Many variables at play that will impact coolant temps including ambient temp, grip levels, and how hard you're driving.

To give an idea, I was doing 1:20s on Summit Main and 1:28s on NJMP Thunderbolt on the current 2+ Multimap on RE-71Rs. I've added coilovers since my last visit to Summit, so I expect to be in the teens on fresh rubber.

My times aren’t even close to yours, so I may have nothing to worry about. But in either case I’ll do some logging on my next track day

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

479whp log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6205...729b3a50870ec1
494whp log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6205...90c62156bfa6e3

While the 494whp log looks decent, you can see how quick power dropped up top, so I stuck with the 478whp tune, up until today while I'm trying out Stg 3 MM V2. So, I'm curious if you guys see much difference b/n my 494whp log and today's Stg 3 MM V2 logs?

MM V3 vs your E50 map

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by TUDMG

For reference once I get my misfiring resolved, how much ethanol was in the tank when you got the 7.2?



Yeah I’m still a little skeptical about VD. Unless conditions are near perfect, my personal policy is to refrain from posting them unless it’s to get an idea of power delivery (not exact power/torque numbers)

Here is the thing - I can't get Virtual dyno to work on ACTUAL dyno logs. No wind resistance, and they aren't moving the car, they are moving a drum. I have no way to even think of how to start doing that. Whenever I plot my runs from my dyno session it gives me something crazy.

However - I can get it to work on my street runs, and when I have it set up properly, the results were actually spot on with what the dyno was reading. When I changed my inlet and intake, I was able to overlay my prior results to see the actual gains at higher RPM.

Leave road and weight are key to the measurements. For me, this is just a fun exercise in the car off season.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

MM V3 vs your E50 map

Guessing road elevation change is impacting the V3 log in VD, it was fairly significant in all my runs today.

[ericlr1225]

Originally Posted by ZM2

479whp log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6205...729b3a50870ec1
494whp log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6205...90c62156bfa6e3

While the 494whp log looks decent, you can see how quick power dropped up top, so I stuck with the 478whp tune, up until today while I'm trying out Stg 3 MM V2. So, I'm curious if you guys see much difference b/n my 494whp log and today's Stg 3 MM V2 logs?

216% load actual at 5600rpm is about right. 500whp ish. Since you dynoed it in 5th gear, the number would be slightly lower than the 1:1 ratio gear. AFR is richer 12.7, which means safer. It's just HPFP couldn't keep up at E50 level.

The new map has less load than the previous 494whp one, less timing. Running "OTS lean" over 13.0AFR

To simplify things, for a small turbo of ours, every 1psi ≈ 5-10whp. 13.5-15.5peak timing. To get a rough picture.
Yes, Halim can lean your previous map out by running richer AFR, making your injectors and HPFP less stressful, but it also sacrifices cooling. I'd say keep your lower-power one for tracking.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ericlr1225

216% load actual at 5600rpm is about right. 500whp ish. Since you dynoed it in 5th gear, the number would be slightly lower than the 1:1 ratio gear. AFR is richer 12.7, which means safer. It's just HPFP couldn't keep up at E50 level.

The new map has less load than the previous 494whp one, less timing also less load. Running "OTS lean" over 13.0AFR

To simplify things, for a small turbo of ours, every 1psi ≈ 5-10whp. 13.5-15.5peak timing. To get a rough picture.
Yes, Halim can lean your previous map out by running richer AFR, making your injectors and HPFP less stressful, but it also sacrifices cooling. I'd say keep your lower-power one for tracking.

What's the load to WHP formula?

[ericlr1225]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

What's the load to WHP formula?

I am not sure tbh. 215-220% to me is right above 500whp on my car.
My Stock turbo MM stage2+ E30 map has 190%, assume it's making 440whp.
Peak power is between 5500-5800rpm for popular tuning strategy. Big turbo may see peak later.
I think we can get a rough idea by scaling it, but again, it's just a rough guess.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ericlr1225

I am not sure tbh. 215-220% to me is right above 500whp on my car.
My Stock turbo MM stage2+ E30 map has 190%, assume it's making 440whp.
Peak power is between 5500-5800rpm for popular tuning strategy. Big turbo may see peak later.
I think we can get a rough idea by scaling it, but again, it's just a rough guess.

Hmmm, I'm doing that on my 93 Custom map, that can't be right.

[ericlr1225]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Hmmm, I'm doing that on my 93 Custom map, that can't be right.

in MHD, just check "load actual ram" What you presented is Relative actual load %

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ericlr1225

in MHD, just check "load actual ram" What you presented is Relative actual load %

195

[ericlr1225]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

195

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6572...db7a1f9e168562

Load won't lie. I was running v1.2 MM stage2+, it's detuned from v1.1, less boost
so probably 410-420whp. Since whp moves with rpm range, we don't know where is the peak power. I was assuming 5500-6000rpm. It won't be accurate.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ericlr1225

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6572...db7a1f9e168562

Load won't lie. I was running v1.2 MM stage2+, it's detuned from v1.1, less boost
so probably 410-420whp. Since whp moves with rpm range, we don't know where is the peak power. I was assuming 5500-6000rpm. It won't be accurate.

Here is the screenshot of my log - 195 at 5700RPM. I've done calculations with the MAF flow g/s and it comes to about 410whp - Depending on my tune revision, it's making as much as 395whp around 6400RPM.

Keep in mind I have a custom tune with cam angle/timing changes, I have MILV rockers that increase valve lift and I'm using a HPFP. I'm probably just going to hit the dyno sometime soon and test all of these revisions to see what works in real time.

[ZM2]

Halim doesn't want to push further on my setup. If my fueling situation was a bit more robust (currently Dorch Stg 1, stock LPFP, stock injectors), we'd add more ethanol & timing to the tune.

Not really interested in spending a couple more grand just to gain a little bit more hp from a turbo that is likely already max'ed out, or wanting to run more than E50, so will leave as is and dyno it at some point to see how it compares to the other maps.

Altho, I was heading to a meeting this morning and gave it some gas around a corner. Let's just say it woke me up and it's good that I have some track skills. It's quick!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Halim doesn't want to push further on my setup. If my fueling situation was a bit more robust (currently Dorch Stg 1, stock LPFP, stock injectors), we'd add more ethanol & timing to the tune.

Not really interested in spending a couple more grand just to gain a little bit more hp from a turbo that is likely already max'ed out, or wanting to run more than E50, so will leave as is and dyno it at some point to see how it compares to the other maps.

Altho, I was heading to a meeting this morning and gave it some gas around a corner. Let's just say it woke me up and it's good that I have some track skills. It's quick!

Thousands? You could sell your BM3 license, but the MHD and a custom tune and be under $1000 all in.

What Halim is doing isn't anything that another tuner can't do. There is a reason everyone wants to work with E85 - you can increase timing to the moon and back. That's why it's an off the shelf tune.

More efficiency can be gain when it's actually tuned for your car. But if you're happy this is as far as you go.


Anyhow, Excited to see what the P500 does - I'm also curious to see how my final tune will measure up to these off the shelf tunes. Of course, I don't plan on running E85 at all.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Thousands? You could sell your BM3 license, but the MHD and a custom tune and be under $1000 all in.

What Halim is doing isn't anything that another tuner can't do. There is a reason everyone wants to work with E85 - you can increase timing to the moon and back. That's why it's an off the shelf tune.

More efficiency can be gain when it's actually tuned for your car. But if you're happy this is as far as you go.


Anyhow, Excited to see what the P500 does - I'm also curious to see how my final tune will measure up to these off the shelf tunes. Of course, I don't plan on running E85 at all.

I’ve hit a pretty fundamental power limit with the turbo and fueling infrastructure. There’s nothing more a custom tune is going to squeeze out. It’d be more wasted money, and I hate MHD’s interface and logging vs BM3.

As is I have >10 maps that I can quick switch between for street and track, not to mention built in ethanol scaling within those. And, a custom tune isn’t going to fix what is likely a hardware issue on track that I need more data around first.

A custom tune isn’t a holy grail thing either. It works for a particular setup and conditions at a point in time. Deviate from those much and it becomes not the ideal tune.

[ericlr1225]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I’ve hit a pretty fundamental power limit with the turbo and fueling infrastructure. There’s nothing more a custom tune is going to squeeze out. It’d be more wasted money, and I hate MHD’s interface and logging vs BM3.

As is I have >10 maps that I can quick switch between for street and track, not to mention built in ethanol scaling within those. And, a custom tune isn’t going to fix what is likely a hardware issue on track that I need more data around first.

A custom tune isn’t a holy grail thing either. It works for a particular setup and conditions at a point in time. Deviate from those much and it becomes not the ideal tune.

Correct, DS1 and stock injectors are hard limits here, also I noticed that TTE460 is trying hard to keep up with the ram load target and ram boost target on new map
Your car is at a sweet spot for the setup you have.

I took an OTS MM stage2+ log this afternoon with my current setup. Halim said he could send me the MM Stage3 that you guys have, I'll do another one with it later.
For reference: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=65f2...d7553872919237

BM3 pre-load "F10 M5" injectors table drives weird. LOL

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I’ve hit a pretty fundamental power limit with the turbo and fueling infrastructure. There’s nothing more a custom tune is going to squeeze out. It’d be more wasted money, and I hate MHD’s interface and logging vs BM3.

I'm going to disagree here - 10 bucks says that Halim isn't even bothering with Cam timing changes. Literally no one does, because you have to have experience and a dyno to see how it works in real time. They are relying on the factory cam angles to be optimal for every set up - which it isn't.

Take a look at these vides - the first video is Fixed cams, and the second is variable cam timing and you can already see what that a few degrees advance or retard can be worth as much as 30whp under the curve.

Originally Posted by ZM2

As is I have >10 maps that I can quick switch between for street and track, not to mention built in ethanol scaling within those. And, a custom tune isn’t going to fix what is likely a hardware issue on track that I need more data around first.

All those maps do is manipulate load/timing/boost based on fuel mixture. It's literally not optimized for your set up.

Originally Posted by ZM2

A custom tune isn’t a holy grail thing either. It works for a particular setup and conditions at a point in time. Deviate from those much and it becomes not the ideal tune.

They have the ability to adapt as much as any tune does. It's your car and money, no one is saying you MUST do anything. But to act like this OTS tune is the best you can do is not correct.

[AmuroRay]

This is for everyone else, just in case you're curious.



Here on my VD dynos comparing lift and VVT changes ONLY. Timing and boost are the same. You can clearly see that adjusting the cam phasing has an impact on the power of the car. Adding cam advance increased low (and even mid range, but there are some timing drops on this log) power, but towards the higher RPM the "standard" (still different from the stock cam angles) produced a more power until high rpm.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=147

You can see the stock cam angles here
https://datazap.me/u/amuroray/stage-...ata=4-23-37-39

And my Standard tune and MILV spec tune with just VVT adjustments here:
https://datazap.me/u/amuroray/log-1696463639?log=0

Another thing to note - WGDC changes because of Cam timing changes.

This is like arguing that the Armani suit you bought off the rack can't get any better with tailoring. Like yeah, it's a nice suit and a nice cut, but there is room for improvement.

[5w20]

How are you guys getting into contact with Halim?

[5w20]

Originally Posted by ericlr1225

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6572...db7a1f9e168562

Load won't lie. I was running v1.2 MM stage2+, it's detuned from v1.1, less boost
so probably 410-420whp. Since whp moves with rpm range, we don't know where is the peak power. I was assuming 5500-6000rpm. It won't be accurate.

I made 418/491 with the OTS v1.3 MM in 5th gear (6th is closer to 1:1).

[TUDMG]

Originally Posted by 5w20

How are you guys getting into contact with Halim?

Through the bootmod3 customer support email (support@protuningfreaks.com)