[akkando]

I mean you either want better reliability and deal with what could be minor heat soak… maybe, or you're not worried about reliability and you keep plastic.

Lots of people are running after market intercooler and CP with tunes and logging their car. No one seems to be reporting mystery heat issues after a metal CP and logging the results.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by akkando

I mean you either want better reliability and deal with what could be minor heat soak… maybe, or you're not worried about reliability and you keep plastic.

Lots of people are running after market intercooler and CP with tunes and logging their car. No one seems to be reporting mystery heat issues after a metal CP and logging the results.

I wasn't going to post graphs of my data beforehand when I reviewed the bms intercooler, but now I'm thinking of compiling my logs into graphs based on ambient temperatures. And so far from what I'm seeing there has yet to be a single instance where the bms intercooler is doing worse than the stock one. The stock intercooler is the biggest pile of junk I've ever seen.


Also if you're worried about engine bay induced heat soaking (I have to be clear about the types of heat soaking now, but really honestly can't see it being a big factor) there are means to help your metal charge pipe. There inconcel heat shields these are super effective - they reflect heat and the way they wrap creates alot of small air gaps providing a really good insulating effect. That's why the metal heat shields bmw used in the engine bay really keep the fire wall cool. Feel inside of the fuse box area vs on the other side of the engine bay. Or you can use thermal reflective tape which is fiber glass based another really good insulator that also reflects heat. Or if you are really crazy get a silicone charge pipe.


Anyways I've said what I needed to say here, I'm heading out.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by akkando

I mean you either want better reliability and deal with what could be minor heat soak… maybe, or you're not worried about reliability and you keep plastic.

Lots of people are running after market intercooler and CP with tunes and logging their car. No one seems to be reporting mystery heat issues after a metal CP and logging the results.

But rarely do people log their daily driving cycles. I'm one of the few that do. Most only log full throttle runs in 3rd gear and above. That sort of logging isn't overly useful here.

I've found that neither my FTP CP or Wagner EVO Comp 1 IC (which has one of the highest fin counts on the market; verified) is really no better with IATs than the stock setup during daily driving in warm to hot weather. In all out acceleration, yeah, the IATs are way more stable and the increase in IATs over the duration of the run are reduced. That's the whole point to the parts. But I'm not going to kid myself into thinking that those parts don't create some power reduction and increased lag when I'm driving around town on a warm to hot day.

The data is so clear. When you're driving in stop and go and aren't using any or just minimal throttle, you can watch the IATs climb almost instantly. Give it some moderate throttle and they fall fairly quickly, let off and they raise again. Hammer it and they fall quite quickly. Let off, and they quickly rise again. Drive around town at heavy throttle all the time on a hot day and you're IATs will be pretty good

[Altra]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

...Drive around town at heavy throttle all the time on a hot day and you're IATs will be pretty good

This right here, is the takeaway!

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

But rarely do people log their daily driving cycles. I'm one of the few that do. Most only log full throttle runs in 3rd gear and above. That sort of logging isn't overly useful here.

I've found that neither my FTP CP or Wagner EVO Comp 1 IC (which has one of the highest fin counts on the market; verified) is really no better with IATs than the stock setup during daily driving in warm to hot weather. In all out acceleration, yeah, the IATs are way more stable and the increase in IATs over the duration of the run are reduced. That's the whole point to the parts. But I'm not going to kid myself into thinking that those parts don't create some power reduction and increased lag when I'm driving around town on a warm to hot day.

The data is so clear. When you're driving in stop and go and aren't using any or just minimal throttle, you can watch the IATs climb almost instantly. Give it some moderate throttle and they fall fairly quickly, let off and they raise again. Hammer it and they fall quite quickly. Let off, and they quickly rise again. Drive around town at heavy throttle all the time on a hot day and you're IATs will be pretty good

I would contend that heatsoaked intake temps around town have a lot more to do with an upgraded intercooler (even 5” ones are 75% more volume than stock) than the chargepipe. The amount of metal in an IC dwarfs the metal in a CP. Its a big steaming oven at a stoplight.

[F87source]

Alrighty then 32.0C day today (probably the hottest it will ever get here) and the temp sensor in my m2 reports 34.5C, likely the sun was baking the entire car and that drove up temperatures more than what the ambient air temp was.


Ok so when driving with the upgraded intercooler iats were only 9C above ambient which is really nice.


Bumper to bumper traffic still sub 50C around 48-49C. When the engine was off it heat soaked to 60 but dropped to 50C within a 15 seconds seconds of the ignition being on. So finally it hits 50C.


Now temperature test:

1) The charge pipes are finally hot, but they are hotter than the surroundings indicating intercooler induced heat soak. So the metal construction had nothing to do with the heat soak if anything it is helping it shed off heat.

2) The plastic intake was also really really hot, maybe even hotter than the charge pipes. This could be due to it sitting right next to the oil lines and above the radiator and ac condensor. Heat wrapping this might be the most effective thing to reduce iats. I will need to feel this again when ambient temperatures are lower and compare it to the charge pipes, because this was ridiculously hot. The intake has no heat source of its own so if it gets hot this indicates (and is an example of) surroundings inducing heat soak.



Conclusions:

I still do not think having a metal charge pipe was a detriment, because on a cooler day the charge pipes remain cool and unaffected by the hot engine bay. On a hot day the charge pipes are even hotter than the engine bay surroundings due to the intercooler heat soaking to 50C+.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Fellas, the new BMW N55 charge pipe has a collar that's over twice as long as the original. It's a huge improvement and addresses the issue.

As for heat soak, yes, plastic will heat soak too but it's far more stable and resistant to heat soak.

Hmm.. You took the bait, little do you know, regardless if your argument has any merit or not, you'll never be able to get your point across here, as the aluminum pipe advocates/fanatics will never be able to accept anything less than their own perspective, when it comes to this subject and trust me, it's a dead end.

Aluminum itself will factually last longer than plastic but aluminum/metal is more susceptible to potential heat-soaking; - how much or how detrimental it is to the vehicle's performance is stIll up for debate. However, regardless of where you sway on the subject, It really only comes down to how much you value one over the other, either will work just fine, especially if you're still under some sort of warranty coverage for the stock piping, IMHO.

I expect every plastic component under the hood, such as engine hoses, plastic coolant flanges, water pump housing, charge pipe, etc, after many heat/cool cycles to naturally fail over time, it not a matter of how but when. On that faithful day, when such finite material parts eventually wears out, I'll just accept that nothing last forever and replace it but I will certainly not criticize BMW on their engineer decisions, especially when, under no contractual obligation, already made a conscientious effort to revise the stock pipe, in an attempt to correct this know issue.

I also want to note that when stock plastic charge pipe fails over time, it's mostly due to its weakest link; the TB flange mating point. Which is ironic, since the aftermarket companies might tout that the use of aluminum pipes are impenetrable to failure, however, its Achilles heel; the silicone connector they utilize, in order to make proper contact with the metal throttle body, is not.

So, an aluminum pipe itself might hold up longer over plastic but I wouldn't exactly bet its silicone couplings surviving the test of time, not in perpetuity, at least, as one might assume.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Hmm.. You took the bait, little do you know, regardless if your argument has any merit or not, you'll never be able to get your point across here, as the aluminum pipe advocates/fanatics will never be able to accept anything less than their own perspective, when it comes to this subject and trust me, it's a dead end.

Aluminum itself will factually last longer than plastic but aluminum/metal is more susceptible to potential heat-soaking; - how much or how detrimental it is to the vehicle's performance is stIll up for debate. However, regardless of where you sway on the subject, It really only comes down to how much you value one over the other, either will work just fine, especially if you're still under some sort of warranty coverage for the stock piping, IMHO.

I expect every plastic component under the hood, such as engine hoses, plastic coolant flanges, water pump housing, charge pipe, etc, after many heat/cool cycles to naturally fail over time, it not a matter of how but when. On that faithful day, when such finite material parts eventually wears out, I'll just accept that nothing last forever and replace it but I will certainly not criticize BMW on their engineer decisions, especially when, under no contractual obligation, already made a conscientious effort to revise the stock pipe, in an attempt to correct this know issue.

I also want to note that when stock plastic charge pipe fails over time, it's mostly due to its weakest link; the TB flange mating point. Which is ironic, since the aftermarket companies might tout that the use of aluminum pipes are impenetrable to failure, however, its Achilles heel; the silicone connector they utilize, in order to make proper contact with the metal throttle body, is not.

So, an aluminum pipe itself might hold up longer over plastic but I wouldn't exactly bet its silicone couplings surviving the test of time, not in perpetuity, at least, as one might assume.

Most aftermarket charge pipes don't use a silicone coupling at the throttle body, just at the mid section. The connection at the throttle body is machined to fit with a very slight gap for metal expansion.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

Most aftermarket charge pipes don't use a silicone coupling at the throttle body, just at the mid section. The connection at the throttle body is machined to fit with a very slight gap for metal expansion.

He's talking about the silicone coupler that joins the two charge pipe components; the coupler usually located underneath the A/C compressor.

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by F87source

Alrighty then 32.0C day today (probably the hottest it will ever get here) and the temp sensor in my m2 reports 34.5C, likely the sun was baking the entire car and that drove up temperatures more than what the ambient air temp was.


Ok so when driving with the upgraded intercooler iats were only 9C above ambient which is really nice.


Bumper to bumper traffic still sub 50C around 48-49C. When the engine was off it heat soaked to 60 but dropped to 50C within a 15 seconds seconds of the ignition being on. So finally it hits 50C.


Now temperature test:

1) The charge pipes are finally hot, but they are hotter than the surroundings indicating intercooler induced heat soak. So the metal construction had nothing to do with the heat soak if anything it is helping it shed off heat.

2) The plastic intake was also really really hot, maybe even hotter than the charge pipes. This could be due to it sitting right next to the oil lines and above the radiator and ac condensor. Heat wrapping this might be the most effective thing to reduce iats. I will need to feel this again when ambient temperatures are lower and compare it to the charge pipes, because this was ridiculously hot. The intake has no heat source of its own so if it gets hot this indicates (and is an example of) surroundings inducing heat soak.



Conclusions:

I still do not think having a metal charge pipe was a detriment, because on a cooler day the charge pipes remain cool and unaffected by the hot engine bay. On a hot day the charge pipes are even hotter than the engine bay surroundings due to the intercooler heat soaking to 50C+.

What's the pressure differential across the intercooler looking like? In absolute values ideally.

[vrooooom]

I only changed my charge pipe only bec it blew up; I didn't do the boost pipe. Is that also one of those plastic parts that blows up in our engine?

The boost pipe going to the FMIC and the charge pipe all are under the same pressure, why is it that charge pipe is the one that fails, why not the BP?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by vrooooom

I only changed my charge pipe only bec it blew up; I didn't do the boost pipe. Is that also one of those plastic parts that blows up in our engine?

The boost pipe going to the FMIC and the charge pipe all are under the same pressure, why is it that charge pipe is the one that fails, why not the BP?

Because the boost pipe is made of a woven fiber exterior and rubber interior so it is flexible and strong. The charge pipe is made of rigid plastic that fatigues over time and the cracks.

[vrooooom]

Ah right! Thanks again F87.