[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Sundinisagod

Does upgrading from the factory intercooler have any impact on warranty?

I want to upgrade from the stock charge pipe, as preventative maintenance, and figure it would be a good time to install a new ic as well, mainly to save on labour costs vs doing it separately. Planning to do bm stage 2 when warranty expires.

warranty is impacted if the mod you get causes damage to an OEM part and you ask them to repair it for free.

The intercooler does not add any stress to other car components, on the contrary, you are lowering the temperature for the car to run better.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Sundinisagod

Does upgrading from the factory intercooler have any impact on warranty?

I want to upgrade from the stock charge pipe, as preventative maintenance, and figure it would be a good time to install a new ic as well, mainly to save on labour costs vs doing it separately. Planning to do bm stage 2 when warranty expires.

You'll likely be ok, but keep in mind that it will be easy for them to point a finger at the aftermarket IC or charge pipe if you start have driveability issues or boost issues related to vacuum problems or leaks. They also won't fix those issues if the parts are the cause as they aren't BMW parts or OEM approved parts so you'll either need to address the issues yourself or at an independent shop.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You'll likely be ok, but keep in mind that it will be easy for them to point a finger at the aftermarket IC or charge pipe if you start have driveability issues or boost issues related to vacuum problems or leaks. They also won't fix those issues if the parts are the cause as they aren't BMW parts or OEM approved parts so you'll either need to address the issues yourself or at an independent shop.

the dealership cannot just claim you have a boost leak from your intercooler. They need to do a boost leak check and it will show clearly where it's coming from.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

the dealership cannot just claim you have a boost leak from your intercooler. They need to do a boost leak check and it will show clearly where it's coming from.

Sure they can and they do. When they see the aftermarket part associated with systems that are having a problem, they can tell you you'll have to pay a diagnostic fee. If it's determined that it's a BMW part issue, then they'll cover it. If it's the aftermarket part, then you'll pay the fee and the repair. Many BMW dealerships are not willing to directly fix aftermarket part problems for a number of reasons.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Sure they can and they do. When they see the aftermarket part associated with systems that are having a problem, they can tell you you'll have to pay a diagnostic fee. If it's determined that it's a BMW part issue, then they'll cover it. If it's the aftermarket part, then you'll pay the fee and the repair. Many BMW dealerships are not willing to directly fix aftermarket part problems for a number of reasons.

you just made my point. they need to show it's from the aftermarket part. They can't just make claims and void the warranty without proof.


They will check for boost, if it's from your aftermarket part, you should be paying the diagnostic fee and repair. If not, it's covered by BMW

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

you just made my point. they need to show it's from the aftermarket part. They can't just make claims and void the warranty without proof.


They will check for boost, if it's from your aftermarket part, you should be paying the diagnostic fee and repair. If not, it's covered by BMW

But they'll tell you that you'll be responsible for the $150-200 upfront. That can out some people off.

The dealers are really free to do what they want to do. If they see aftermarket engine parts, they can refuse warranty work. They make little on warranty work and don't want to risk getting the claim denied by BMW when it comes to certain warranty work.

People can bitch and claim Magneson Moss Act consumer protection in these instances, but that act ONLY covers aftermarket built to OEM standards. So you're left dealing with the issue. It's the risk of running aftermarket parts.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

But they'll tell you that you'll be responsible for the $150-200 upfront. That can out some people off.

I run into people saying this sort of thing all the time, and I chalk it up to different dealers handling things in different ways.

My SA told me in writing that in the 6 years he's been working for BMW he's never denied a claim or charged a customer for something that wasn't clearly the customer's fault. Of course, they deal with modded cars every day, so they are well aware of the issues. The big one is obviously the tune, but barring that, he literally told me not to worry about the Fabspeed sport cat, Dinan resonator delete, Intercooler and charge pipe. Unless whatever issue the car is having can be directly traced back to one of these mods, he said I was good, and I'm taking him at his word. I even had a guy on here tell me that no SA had the authority to say such things...yet they do...and they still perform warranty work every day on modded cars.

It literally comes down to the dealer you use, and to that end, you should always get 'permission' for mods up front, as in how they are going to deal with them, and in writing.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I run into people saying this sort of thing all the time, and I chalk it up to different dealers handling things in different ways.

My SA told me in writing that in the 6 years he's been working for BMW he's never denied a claim or charged a customer for something that wasn't clearly the customer's fault. Of course, they deal with modded cars every day, so they are well aware of the issues. The big one is obviously the tune, but barring that, he literally told me not to worry about the Fabspeed sport cat, Dinan resonator delete, Intercooler and charge pipe. Unless whatever issue the car is having can be directly traced back to one of these mods, he said I was good, and I'm taking him at his word. I even had a guy on here tell me that no SA had the authority to say such things...yet they do...and they still perform warranty work every day on modded cars.

It literally comes down to the dealer you use, and to that end, you should always get 'permission' for mods up front, as in how they are going to deal with them, and in writing.

100% this. All comes down to the dealer. I've seen some that could care less and some that say up front if you mod we won't touch it. Is the latter against the rules? Probably, but you have no leverage to force them other than to contact BMW directly and I'm not sure it's the smartest route to tell BMW Corp you are modded lol.

[AmuroRay]

My dealer asked me if my car was modded (FBO/JB4 at the time, lowered, aftermarket wheels) and I looked him in the eye and said "I dunno"

He literally did not care.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I run into people saying this sort of thing all the time, and I chalk it up to different dealers handling things in different ways.

My SA told me in writing that in the 6 years he's been working for BMW he's never denied a claim or charged a customer for something that wasn't clearly the customer's fault. Of course, they deal with modded cars every day, so they are well aware of the issues. The big one is obviously the tune, but barring that, he literally told me not to worry about the Fabspeed sport cat, Dinan resonator delete, Intercooler and charge pipe. Unless whatever issue the car is having can be directly traced back to one of these mods, he said I was good, and I'm taking him at his word. I even had a guy on here tell me that no SA had the authority to say such things...yet they do...and they still perform warranty work every day on modded cars.

It literally comes down to the dealer you use, and to that end, you should always get 'permission' for mods up front, as in how they are going to deal with them, and in writing.

BMW is the one that pays the dealer for the warranty work. The dealer submits the claim and BMW approves prior to the start of the work. In some instances, BMW will require pictures, additional information (i.e., questions about vehicle modifications), or DME scans in order to first approve the warranty work.

The dealer can give you a piece of paper saying there's no issue when it comes to mods or certain mods and/or tell you they're "mod friendly" but BMW is ultimately paying the bill on warranty work so that piece of paper or the dealer's word has little weight. BMW doesn't care.

Will BMW deny drivetrain warranty work on a car with a charge pipe? Doubtful. One with an IC and catted DP? Quite possibly if BMW asks about mods (the dealer can't lie or they risk their franchise). If you can't turn a wrench or have a friend that can help you fix/trouble shoot minor issues then I don't think owning a modded BMW that's under warranty is a good idea.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

BMW is the one that pays the dealer for the warranty work. The dealer submits the claim and BMW approves prior to the start of the work. In some instances, BMW will require pictures, additional information (i.e., questions about vehicle modifications), or DME scans in order to first approve the warranty work.

The dealer can give you a piece of paper saying there's no issue when it comes to mods or certain mods and/or tell you they're "mod friendly" but BMW is ultimately paying the bill on warranty work so that piece of paper or the dealer's word has little weight. BMW doesn't care.

Will BMW deny drivetrain warranty work on a car with a charge pipe? Doubtful. One with an IC and catted DP? Quite possibly if BMW asks about mods (the dealer can't lie or they risk their franchise). If you can't turn a wrench or have a friend that can help you fix/trouble shoot minor issues then I don't think owning a modded BMW that's under warranty is a good idea.

My SA's entire point was that they weren't assholes like they are sometimes made out to be. They do warranty work on modded M's all the time, so I'm going to say again, it comes down to the dealer.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

My SA's entire point was that they weren't assholes like they are sometimes made out to be. They do warranty work on modded M's all the time, so I'm going to say again, it comes down to the dealer.

agree

the reality is the vast majority of tuned cars are getting warranty work done on their cars without any problems. The ones that are not are due to the mods causing the damage and a very rare exception where the SA is an asshole.

[Oktom2]

Great thread. May I ask one quick question?

I have the Wagner comp. evo 2 on my car. It is stock turbo, with MHD stage2+ 93octane, a 200cell downpipe, a charge pipe, and BMC drop-in. I also spray a little bit of WMI.

I do some highway pulls here and there (usually up to 260km/h or so), and I go to the track or do mountain driving 2~3 times per months. I always revert the tune to stock when I go to the track. Track is the main focus, but I can't go very often and between track days I use the stage2+ tune.

Is there a better option than the Wagner Evo2? My IATs are not as low as I wished, especially during 20sec+ pulls. Weight and throttle response are also a concern. The intercooler must not suck on stock tune because thats what I use on the track.

Is the Evo2 the best compromise for me or is there some other product (do88? er? csf?) I could upgrade to that will be better at the track and also outside of the track? (I initially got the Evo2 because I got sold on the "tubes and fins cool down faster than bar and plate" thing + the lighter weight, but I thought this intercooler would perform a bit better TBH)

[vrooooom]

Isn't it pretty hot in Korea right now? 31c already 88F. I'm @ 95F and it's just ambient temp.

Just wondering, why stock tune while on track and stage 2 outside?

[Oktom2]

Originally Posted by vrooooom

Isn't it pretty hot in Korea right now? 31c already 88F. I'm @ 95F and it's just ambient temp.

Just wondering, why stock tune while on track and stage 2 outside?

How do you know that I am in Korea?
Yes today is crazy hot. Feels like summer already.

I don't want to run in any issues on the track, so I prefer to play it safe. The engine components get much hotter on the track since there is not much cooling between the accelerations.

Edit: nevermind. didnt know that I put my location in my profile.

[AmuroRay]

In order of best -

VRSF Race
Pros - large frontal area (11”), high fin density, cost
Cons - weight, some people reported a softer throttle response, VRSF quality is just ok

Wagner Evo 3
Pros - biggest frontal area (13”), larger diameter inlets, comes with everything including a new charge pipe, reportedly no loss in throttle response.
Cons - Weight, ( also a good thing) cost, questionable Fit and finish

ER
Pros - Lightest of the three, large frontal area (11”), high fin count, no loss in throttle response, fit and finish
Cons - cost is high, but cheaper than the Wagner, lighter weight means less thermal capacity

[Oktom2]

Interesting, I always thought VRSF was a cheap brand to avoid

[Oktom2]

Who sells the cheapest ER intercooler? I suddenly want one!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Oktom2

Who sells the cheapest ER intercooler? I suddenly want one!

Talk to Mike at XHP, I think they are running deals on the ER unit.
VRSF has some QC concerns no doubt, but I haven't heard about it much lately, just customer service.

Wagner's QC concerns are based on this - https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1808524
Only one review, so take it for what it's worth.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Oktom2

Who sells the cheapest ER intercooler? I suddenly want one!

I can help

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Oktom2

Is there a better option than the Wagner Evo2? My IATs are not as low as I wished, especially during 20sec+ pulls. Weight and throttle response are also a concern. The intercooler must not suck on stock tune because thats what I use on the track.

What is the stock vs EVO2 intercooler IAT data you have to state that the IATs are not as low as you wished?

What sort of IATs are you looking to have during a quite lengthy 20 second pull? On what sort of track would you be able to do such a thing? I can't think of any track in this world that you can stay full throttle for 20 seconds unless of course you're driving a super super slow car

[Oktom2]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

What is the stock vs EVO2 intercooler IAT data you have to state that the IATs are not as low as you wished?

What sort of IATs are you looking to have during a quite lengthy 20 second pull? On what sort of track would you be able to do such a thing? I can't think of any track in this world that you can stay full throttle for 20 seconds unless of course you're driving a super super slow car

The slightly high IATs on long pulls are outside the track.
Typically a multi-gear pull from 60 to 260kph is about 25seconds of WOT. At the end of such a pull I see 30°C(86F) when ambient is 12°C(54F).
On the track as you said its usually shorter and the track I go to the speed doesn't exceed 220.