[Boba1214]

Hi everyone, I will be bringing my street-driven DD M2C out to the autocross and HPDE for the very first time. I have been reading through posts and have a pretty good idea, but would just like recommendations from those who had previous experiences.

I plan to run on stock suspension and upgrade components as needed, but I want to make sure the components I buy will futureproof my setup compatibility-wise. So, what I'm trying to get out of this post is to put together a roadmap for my setup, with different milestones of upgrades depending on how deep I get into the sport.


Camber adjustability -

• Camber plate is probably the route I'd go with, but I've also heard that these camber adjustable bushings are a good alternative. What are the pros/cons?
• While doing my research, I've heard that the Millway Street camber plate is good for minimizing NVH, but at the expensive of less camber adjustability. I'm also hearing that other companies have released more street-friendly camber plates without NVH to compete with Millway--if this is true, Millway Street is not the only option for me now?
• I've heard getting aftermarket arms can also change camber--I assume this would be permanent and I should not go this route if I want to adjust camber pre/post track event? I plan to adjust camber before and after the event myself.
• My main concern here is the ability to dial front camber to -3.0 deg or so for prolonged tire life AND not having to deal with NVH on the street.

Aftermarket coilovers
I haven't done much research here and am content with the stock setup. Again, as I get more experience driving the car to the extreme, I may want to upgrade my suspension.

For futureproofing, can you guys recommend a few budget coilovers that are good for street and track for an amateur like myself? I've heard there's quite a few issues with Ohlin R+Ts?

Also, I've heard that not all aftermarket coilovers are compatible with camber plates. How should I pick one?

Misc: control arms, endlinks, swaybars, etc...

• What stage of suspension upgrade do these fall under? I suspect I don't need to worry about this until way later down the road?

I tried to organize this post into bullets, so I hope it's straightforward enough. Thanks for the help y'all!

[bentom2]

Speaking from 7 years of track experience and some dabbling with autocross over the years…

Those front lower control arm bushings indicate that they can only add 0.5*, so they won’t get close to your goal of 3.0 degrees of camber. I believe stock is around 1 or 1.5 degrees.

For what you want to do, a camber plate is probably going to be the most accommodating to regular adjustment back and forth since you can easily see and mark it for a street vs track setting, but changes in camber will have some impact on toe. You may be better off with finding a good compromise and leaving it there. The arms will do the same thing, but likely with an even greater impact on toe since they’re inline with the steering rack.

Excess toe in or out is what kills tires on the street, not camber, so there shouldn’t be too much downside to camber plates with 2-2.5 degrees and something a bit closer to 0 toe than the stock setting. 3.0 is pretty aggressive and may not be necessary for your driving style.

FWIW, I’m running Ground control camber plates, which are not known to be the quietest option, but the impact on NVH wasn’t that noticeable. I started on the stock suspension with them and moved to Ohlins (which have been trouble free so far over two years, 20k miles, and a few dozen track days), with just a call to GC for a different spring perch.

Sounds like you haven’t run any events yet, so before you start modifying, consider getting out there and get a few events under your belt before you start changing things. You may find you prefer autocross over track days (or vice-versa), and you’ll probably want to prioritize setup changes differently between the two. Also, if you find you’re only doing a couple events per year, it may not be worth the compromises of changing out OEM parts and alignment.

For the track though, a good set of pads and a high temp fluid are probably worth it from day 1, especially if you aren’t sure what fluid is in the system currently. For autocross, just go sign up and send it.

[Boba1214]

Originally Posted by bentom2

Speaking from 7 years of track experience and some dabbling with autocross over the years…

Those front lower control arm bushings indicate that they can only add 0.5*, so they won’t get close to your goal of 3.0 degrees of camber. I believe stock is around 1 or 1.5 degrees.

For what you want to do, a camber plate is probably going to be the most accommodating to regular adjustment back and forth since you can easily see and mark it for a street vs track setting, but changes in camber will have some impact on toe. You may be better off with finding a good compromise and leaving it there. The arms will do the same thing, but likely with an even greater impact on toe since they’re inline with the steering rack.

Excess toe in or out is what kills tires on the street, not camber, so there shouldn’t be too much downside to camber plates with 2-2.5 degrees and something a bit closer to 0 toe than the stock setting. 3.0 is pretty aggressive and may not be necessary for your driving style.

FWIW, I’m running Ground control camber plates, which are not known to be the quietest option, but the impact on NVH wasn’t that noticeable. I started on the stock suspension with them and moved to Ohlins (which have been trouble free so far over two years, 20k miles, and a few dozen track days), with just a call to GC for a different spring perch.

Sounds like you haven’t run any events yet, so before you start modifying, consider getting out there and get a few events under your belt before you start changing things. You may find you prefer autocross over track days (or vice-versa), and you’ll probably want to prioritize setup changes differently between the two. Also, if you find you’re only doing a couple events per year, it may not be worth the compromises of changing out OEM parts and alignment.

For the track though, a good set of pads and a high temp fluid are probably worth it from day 1, especially if you aren’t sure what fluid is in the system currently. For autocross, just go sign up and send it.

Yep, I plan to just attend the event to get a feel for it before I go into this rabbit hole, but do want to protect my tires. Will one autocross event decrease my treadwear significantly? That's really my main concern right now on why I want to go for more negative camber.

Regarding toe being out of spec from camber adjustment, I've seen others ask the alignment shop to mark the area it for street and track so it can be adjusted back to spec easily, so I may do that to save some money on not having to go to alignment shops every time.

[RugbyBro]

Millway camber plates for additional camber with minimal added NVH. I've used GC for a few years and am now on Vorschlag. GC bushings kept failing on me, the Vorschlags are much beefier. Both have the infamous camber plate creaking to some degree (typically when everything is cold).

Pads, fluid, alignment/camber plates, and tires will take you pretty far. As for future proofing & coilovers, I don't think it makes sense to go with a mid budget option like R/T, B16s, etc. as you'll want to replace them anyway for a proper setup once you get fast. It's kind of just stay stock or run with a high end, track focused damper. Don't worry about arms until you have already move beyond brakes, tires, and stock dampers. Sway bars will depend on your spring rates and overall chassis balance. If you want more roll control or want to adjust the over/understeer bias then sways are a good way to do that.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by Boba1214

Yep, I plan to just attend the event to get a feel for it before I go into this rabbit hole, but do want to protect my tires. Will one autocross event decrease my treadwear significantly? That's really my main concern right now on why I want to go for more negative camber.

Regarding toe being out of spec from camber adjustment, I've seen others ask the alignment shop to mark the area it for street and track so it can be adjusted back to spec easily, so I may do that to save some money on not having to go to alignment shops every time.

If the alignment shop doesn’t at least warn you about the impact to toe don’t use that shop. Like the person above said, unless you are a serious track comp monster just set the camber to a middle ground and keep your front toe close to zero. As a novice you will notice zero difference between -2.5 and -3. If you get to a point where half a degree makes a difference, your’re probably not streeting the car anymore and have a full race car.

Mod order should be:
1. Track pads and track brake fluid. I recommend this even for first timers.
2. Track wheels and cheap track tires. Much better grip, won’t kill your street tires (which you wil) and can judge wear based on driving style
3. Camber adjustments based on tire wear
4. Coilovers

[AlpinewhiteM2C]

I echo bentom2 thoughts about just signing up and going to an autocross event and not worrying too much about brakes, fluids, and tire wear. Based on my own experience the tire wear from autocross events, especially if it's going to be the first couple times you go out in the M2, will hardly be noticeable. For reference I took my stock M2 out on several autocrosses and (2) car control clinics that were run by the local BMW and Porsche club and my tires did not show any out of the ordinary tire wear.

For track days, I also agree that changing out at the minimum fluids and pads should be done as it will give you the added benefit of ensuring your brakes don't give up after some hard lapping.

[Boba1214]

Originally Posted by bentom2

Speaking from 7 years of track experience and some dabbling with autocross over the years…

Those front lower control arm bushings indicate that they can only add 0.5*, so they won’t get close to your goal of 3.0 degrees of camber. I believe stock is around 1 or 1.5 degrees.

For what you want to do, a camber plate is probably going to be the most accommodating to regular adjustment back and forth since you can easily see and mark it for a street vs track setting, but changes in camber will have some impact on toe. You may be better off with finding a good compromise and leaving it there. The arms will do the same thing, but likely with an even greater impact on toe since they’re inline with the steering rack.

Excess toe in or out is what kills tires on the street, not camber, so there shouldn’t be too much downside to camber plates with 2-2.5 degrees and something a bit closer to 0 toe than the stock setting. 3.0 is pretty aggressive and may not be necessary for your driving style.

FWIW, I’m running Ground control camber plates, which are not known to be the quietest option, but the impact on NVH wasn’t that noticeable. I started on the stock suspension with them and moved to Ohlins (which have been trouble free so far over two years, 20k miles, and a few dozen track days), with just a call to GC for a different spring perch.

Sounds like you haven’t run any events yet, so before you start modifying, consider getting out there and get a few events under your belt before you start changing things. You may find you prefer autocross over track days (or vice-versa), and you’ll probably want to prioritize setup changes differently between the two. Also, if you find you’re only doing a couple events per year, it may not be worth the compromises of changing out OEM parts and alignment.

For the track though, a good set of pads and a high temp fluid are probably worth it from day 1, especially if you aren’t sure what fluid is in the system currently. For autocross, just go sign up and send it.

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

I echo bentom2 thoughts about just signing up and going to an autocross event and not worrying too much about brakes, fluids, and tire wear. Based on my own experience the tire wear from autocross events, especially if it's going to be the first couple times you go out in the M2, will hardly be noticeable. For reference I took my stock M2 out on several autocrosses and (2) car control clinics that were run by the local BMW and Porsche club and my tires did not show any out of the ordinary tire wear.

For track days, I also agree that changing out at the minimum fluids and pads should be done as it will give you the added benefit of ensuring your brakes don't give up after some hard lapping.

Thanks for the recommendation guys. I did go ahead and order Millway Street plates but I wished I had held off until I did my first autocross event based on what you said. It's ok, I guess I'll use it sooner or later seeing how I like to drive spirited on the street, so track and autocross will probably appeal very much to me.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by AlpinewhiteM2C

I echo bentom2 thoughts about just signing up and going to an autocross event and not worrying too much about brakes, fluids, and tire wear. Based on my own experience the tire wear from autocross events, especially if it's going to be the first couple times you go out in the M2, will hardly be noticeable. For reference I took my stock M2 out on several autocrosses and (2) car control clinics that were run by the local BMW and Porsche club and my tires did not show any out of the ordinary tire wear.

For track days, I also agree that changing out at the minimum fluids and pads should be done as it will give you the added benefit of ensuring your brakes don't give up after some hard lapping.

I agree on changing the fluid for hpde. I consider it a safety component. Just had new SRF put in today. 2yrs and three track events. They still sait it looked pretty good, but again, safety.

Those 3 events were done on stock pads. It was a hoot. They faded reliably and consistently. Now that I'm more comfortable I'm putting in the Carbotechs to try out for an event on the 24th. Thanks for those!

[E90convert]

I just bought an M2 and it is also my DD and track car. I even got car-seats in the back too for my little ones! My typical formula for a street-track car that has worked on my S2000, Z06 and Cayman S is:

Hybrid Street-track pads. I have used Ferodo DS2500 in the past and found them to be exceptional on street and track. I chose these for the M2.
Stainless steel braided brake lines. I've always used Goodridge on the last 5 cars I've tracked with.
High Temp brake fluid. I've always used Motul RBF 660, but this year some club members convinced me to use SRF, so I'm going to give that a try!

A note on brake compound: consider the tires you are running. In most cases, your tires and driver skill determine if the brakes are going to be OK. Their are other factors too, but these are the most important. If you are running the stock MPSS or similar, then a hybrid pad should be fine. If you are running a 200TW tire or the Cup 2, the DS2500 may not be enough. HOWEVER, I read you are newer to track driving, so I think the DS2500 should be fine for your first year regardless of your tire. For example, I am an instructor and still use DS2500, but I am on MP4S tires so the tires overheat before the brakes do anyways (or so has been my experience on past platforms).

For your first year, don't get too concerned with camber or other things. Just focus on coming into the season with a good plan for your brakes (see above ) and making sure your maintenance is up to date. You're going to have a lot of fun and learn a ton in the first couple events.

[Boba1214]

Originally Posted by E90convert

I just bought an M2 and it is also my DD and track car. I even got car-seats in the back too for my little ones! My typical formula for a street-track car that has worked on my S2000, Z06 and Cayman S is:

Hybrid Street-track pads. I have used Ferodo DS2500 in the past and found them to be exceptional on street and track. I chose these for the M2.
Stainless steel braided brake lines. I've always used Goodridge on the last 5 cars I've tracked with.
High Temp brake fluid. I've always used Motul RBF 660, but this year some club members convinced me to use SRF, so I'm going to give that a try!

A note on brake compound: consider the tires you are running. In most cases, your tires and driver skill determine if the brakes are going to be OK. Their are other factors too, but these are the most important. If you are running the stock MPSS or similar, then a hybrid pad should be fine. If you are running a 200TW tire or the Cup 2, the DS2500 may not be enough. HOWEVER, I read you are newer to track driving, so I think the DS2500 should be fine for your first year regardless of your tire. For example, I am an instructor and still use DS2500, but I am on MP4S tires so the tires overheat before the brakes do anyways (or so has been my experience on past platforms).

For your first year, don't get too concerned with camber or other things. Just focus on coming into the season with a good plan for your brakes (see above ) and making sure your maintenance is up to date. You're going to have a lot of fun and learn a ton in the first couple events.

Awesome, thanks for the suggestion. Do you run the same tire setup on the track and road? I have PS4S right now and I was thinking of just running it as-is so I don't need to get another track dedicated wheel set.

[E90convert]

Yeah, I run my PS4S tires all summer, street and track. As you get more experience, I’d suggest getting a set of track wheels and tires. It’s not a must though. I’ve seen all 4 stack neatly in the back seat!