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      04-07-2020, 10:19 PM   #1
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MHD vs BM3

Pretty simple question, what tuning platform would you guys prefer and why? I had mhd on my ST 135, haven't dealt with BM3
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      04-08-2020, 02:38 AM   #2
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MHD if i were in Europe, BM3 in the rest of the world.
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      04-08-2020, 03:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post
MHD if i were in Europe, BM3 in the rest of the world.
Why the region differences? I thought you could get email tunes with both?
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      04-08-2020, 03:23 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
Why the region differences? I thought you could get email tunes with both?
In Europe we have one of the most experienced BMW tuner working on MHD platforms for custom maps.
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      04-08-2020, 05:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post
In Europe we have one of the most experienced BMW tuner working on MHD platforms for custom maps.
OK but what does this matter? Its not like 99% of the cars will go to the tuner and be on their dyno. An email tune from Germany or USA is going to be similar if I live in Spain no?

The only thing I can think is fuel quality but that varies across states and countries anyways.
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      04-08-2020, 11:09 AM   #6
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Bootmod3 offers more power, features and is faster.
Its also always first to come out with new updates
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      04-08-2020, 11:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
OK but what does this matter? Its not like 99% of the cars will go to the tuner and be on their dyno. An email tune from Germany or USA is going to be similar if I live in Spain no?

The only thing I can think is fuel quality but that varies across states and countries anyways.
You can use an OTS map or get a custom one, this is the procedure:

Quote:
Based on the information about your vehicle, a basemap will be created and sent to you by e-mail. If further points are considered when loading the basemap, it will be described in the e-mail with the basemap.

- The first version should then be logged 2x in 3rd gear and 2x in 4th gear, each from 2500rpm to just before the limiter.

- the Logs afterwards please send an emailto back to us

- Based on the logs, a new version is created, which then has to be logged again as described above

The whole thing will repeat itself several times until a map is completed, with which all parties are satisfied.
Bootmod3 also offer this feature, but the best Bmw tuner in Europe works on MHD platform since the E9x times.
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      04-08-2020, 11:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _RS4_ View Post
You can use an OTS map or get a custom one, this is the procedure:



Bootmod3 also offer this feature, but the best Bmw tuner in Europe works on MHD platform since the E9x times.
I'm not sure if language is the issue here, but that does not answer my question or why you would recommend one or the other depending on the region you live in.

Who is this mythical MHD tuner BTW? and its great if it has more features than Bootmod3 as F87 source says.
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      04-08-2020, 03:29 PM   #9
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Both are good tools but my vote goes to BM3 without a doubt. Way more features too many even for most people plus it looks way better and has all the records and best tuners by far.
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      04-08-2020, 03:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megator View Post
I'm not sure if language is the issue here, but that does not answer my question or why you would recommend one or the other depending on the region you live in.

Who is this mythical MHD tuner BTW? and its great if it has more features than Bootmod3 as F87 source says.
https://pureboost.de
The regional matter is because of the experience on the respective regional cars, similar but not equal. I had some troubles with an American tuner on my old N54 due to different ecu versions and I had to wait very long time for the updates.
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      04-08-2020, 05:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Bootmod3 offers more power, features and is faster.
Its also always first to come out with new updates
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTWO View Post
Both are good tools but my vote goes to BM3 without a doubt. Way more features too many even for most people plus it looks way better and has all the records and best tuners by far.
+1

A little background from unbiased but very biased (due to my strong understanding and real life experience since the beginning of the Fxx Flash for BMWs good and bad moments)
I've been a member of this forum since 2012 when I got my first bmw E90 335, 328 (for 2yrs) then tried mercedes c300 for 1yr and came back in 2015 with X3 28i, then 2016 X4 M40i where I joined BM3 beta Nov 2016 I went from knowing nothing to understanding so much more of what my car should behave like. After 2 fun years Bm3 had made my M2 Little Brother (Similar N55-EWG in the 16' X4 M40i) an enjoyable, daily driver and was beating all my friends F22 M235/F30 335 with piggybacks and they switched over to Bootmod3 because they saw it with their realize eyes what a real flash (not aggressive by any means) ws about. Bootmod3 made me love my BMW so much I jumped inito a 2017 M3 Comp where I had already made tons of friends because of Bootmod3. And the fun kept going, long story short still hold the Stock Hardware 60-130 in the S55.

There were a lot of lies here, mentioning a certain tuner that constantly kept pushing his customers excuses and making them jump to mhd because he was on BM3 for that purpose. Anyways no need to beat that topic, Records are there and that speaks more than a post.

BM3 is not to be COMPARED, its the FIRST and Only Platform that supports MAJOR ENGINES via Laptop (Windows or Mac OS X), use the WiFi Agente (which you can DIY or buy it from them to use it on iPhone or Android).

It is much more work to support all different ROM versions than flashing everyone the same ROM like MHD does. All in All, BM3 has been there from the beginning and has the best support across the board. You don't even need to email support most of the time these days because the User based forum its so helpful or you can search your question there.

Lets end it with, 99% of World Records in 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, 100-200, 60-130 are owned under a Custom Tuner via Bootmod3 which leaves no surprise its the better platform.

I have friends in Germany (N55-EWG M2, S55) who switched from MHD to BM3 because after spending a year + they just didn't get the powerband they were looking and now are happy with BM3 (OTS + Customer Tuners)
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Last edited by FSociety; 04-08-2020 at 10:23 PM..
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      04-09-2020, 12:55 AM   #12
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I noticed my posts were deleted so I guess I was being a bit too aggressive. So first off I want to apologize to M2C_OZ , the admins, and FSociety if I was being too harsh. I realized that this group is meant to be for the betterment of our platform, so senseless arguing would only divide us apart.

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      04-09-2020, 03:58 AM   #13
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BM3 cannot tune my car anymore, and most likely so can't MHD (>march 2019 S55). The expectation is that this OBD2 coding is being rolled out to all other ECU's.....

I would go ECUtek, which in the meantime offers the same (+more) features that you can adjust on the fly. Spending a day on the passenger seat with my tuner doing the bench unlock (ecu remains in place just removing the charge cooler) doing the fit for purpose mapping, I consider a big bonus.

Nothing to ramble or troll, just my 2 cents.
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      04-11-2020, 01:32 AM   #14
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Keep in mind my only experience is with BM3, and this is the first time I've used any tuning software. I had to send my DME to get unlocked. Not a huge deal. My buddy helped me flash the computer, but even so, it was simple to use, worked the first time, and had plenty of options to customize. On top of that it gave my car a massive improvement to performance without any loss of drivability or efficiency. Can't ask for more.
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      03-02-2024, 05:06 PM   #15
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bm3 doesnt always release features first lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Bootmod3 offers more power, features and is faster.
Its also always first to come out with new updates
If only that was still true lol. Bm3 announced rev 2 features in 2021, its 2024 and still no rev 2 for the public. Meanwhile, MHD released all the features from rev 2 bm3 that were teased 3 years ago
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      03-02-2024, 05:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cylenjoyer View Post
If only that was still true lol. Bm3 announced rev 2 features in 2021, its 2024 and still no rev 2 for the public. Meanwhile, MHD released all the features from rev 2 bm3 that were teased 3 years ago
BM3 didn't announce REV 2 till late 2023... Not sure what you're even talking about.


BM3's 2021 announced features were their flex fuel ROM, map switch etc. They have released that for awhile now. REV2 is a completely different thing with more canbus integrated logic and requiring their second gen canbus integration box.
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      03-03-2024, 02:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
BM3 didn't announce REV 2 till late 2023... Not sure what you're even talking about.


BM3's 2021 announced features were their flex fuel ROM, map switch etc. They have released that for awhile now. REV2 is a completely different thing with more canbus integrated logic and requiring their second gen canbus integration box.
Doesn’t change the fact that bm3 doesnt get first release anymore, mhd beat them to canbus integration for port fuel via reflex when bm3 announced it first and was teasing it way longer than mhd. Also, rev 2 was announced on January 31, 2021 what are you talking about announced in late 2023??? Lmao
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      03-03-2024, 02:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
BM3 didn't announce REV 2 till late 2023... Not sure what you're even talking about.


BM3's 2021 announced features were their flex fuel ROM, map switch etc. They have released that for awhile now. REV2 is a completely different thing with more canbus integrated logic and requiring their second gen canbus integration box.
Image for reference on announcement
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      03-03-2024, 11:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4cylenjoyer View Post
Doesn’t change the fact that bm3 doesnt get first release anymore, mhd beat them to canbus integration for port fuel via reflex when bm3 announced it first and was teasing it way longer than mhd. Also, rev 2 was announced on January 31, 2021 what are you talking about announced in late 2023??? Lmao
1) BM3 released their flexfuel tuning (even for DME's requiring FEMTO unlocking or not) for the gen 2 B58 and S58 way way way before MHD did, and at this moment I am still unsure if MHD supports flex fuel on the S58 yet.

2) BM3 develops hardware and software in house, so obviously it's going to take longer. MHD does not, they rely on motiv and bimecu to make the hardware. Plus when BM3 makes hardware they almost always do it right the first time, for example look at:

- MHD's flex fuel hardware vs. BM3. BM3 uses a high quality flexible braided AN line for connecting to the LPFP top hat. MHD uses that hard plastic line with very minimal flex, and is always a concern for cracking over time (I talk about it here to the creator of the kit: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=30). Now they switched to a braided AN line so any previous customer with the hardline has to buy a new one (thank fully they made that switch, I really hated that hard plastic line). MHD's flex fuel kit also draws power from the EKP, so not ideal for the F series n55's EKP which is already maxed out from the factory. BM3 also initially made the same design choice, but they have since revised it to take power from the FEM. MHD has not made this update, because it depends on their suppliers.

- BM3's flex fuel hardware has a bypass to lower restriction, MHD's does not. Again if MHD wanted to make this change they would have to depend on a 3rd party manufacturer, BM3 does everything in house.

-Next look at MHD's wifi adapter, they released the initial orange adapter, and the black enet adapter. They hyped this adapter as revolutionary etc etc etc. Turns out the black enet adapter was a relabeled enet adapter from Taiwan.... Then years later they finally released their bespoke MHD purple adapter, so again customers had a nice time wasting money having to buy it twice. I know because I was one of them. Bm3 on the other hand released their adapter once. Also the BM3 wifi adapter has encryption built in due to customer request, MHD does not.

- Look at motive reflex, it launched with a beavy of major glitches and faults according to all the customers that insaw complaining online, and MHD was powerless to fix it and had to rely on motiv to fix it over time (remember reflex was made to be universal for all engines and all cars and for multiple tuning software, bm3's hardware will be bespoke for bm3 and bmw - so it's should have way higher integration and should be more reliable right out of the box). With BM3 they will be able to fix asap as they see issues, look at their wifi adapter for example, BM3 saw the issue with connectivity and released a fix almost immediately - you can expect the same when their rev 2 board is out.


3) In terms of their REV 2 board, they announced it in 2021 as a teaser of what it can support in the future. I'm talking about custom rom V2 which is the software that will actually support these new features. They only announced it late last year.


4) Then if you want to compare MHD vs. BM3 take a look at the other aspects:

- M2 customers specifically requested a tuning option to get rid of the lag between shift and asked both BM3 and MHD to make the fix. With BM3 they have released this fix years ago on their OTS maps and will work with tuners to implement the fix on custom tunes. MHD AFAIK never made the same update, instead they released flat foot shifting as their interpretation of a "fix" which is completely wrong. Bm3 customers asked for more gauges on the dash board, BM3 implemented it and you have like 36 gauges that are viewable. When I asked MHD they told me you can't view more than 8 gauges at once there is no point. BM3 customers asked for wifi adapter password encryption, BM3 gave it to us. From what I saw on facebook when people asked for wifi adapter encryption MHD said that it wasn't needed. BM3 enables laptop connectivity so if you want to flash tunes, look at logs on a large scree device, make tuning changes - you can do it all from your laptop. With MHD you have to log with a phone, upload it to datazap, then switch to your laptop to look at the log and make changes, then email that change to your phone before being able to flash. It was a huge hassle and BM3 is light years ahead of MHD in that regard.

So IMO one company gives the customers what they ask for, one company thinks they know whats best. That's one of the reasons why I left MHD for BM3.


- License resale: BM3 allows you to resell your license once. MHD will not only VIN lock your license (which is already horrible), but they also lock it to your email address so you are absolutely screwed and can't even transfer it to the new owner of your car. When people ask about it, MHD refuses to even left people change their email or enable reselling. So that's a pretty big blow to any MHD customer. BM3 also lets you test their license for 30 days and if you're not happy you get your money back no hassle. Have fun testing MHD or even having a small amount of regret, because you if you do regret your decision you're screwed. BTW I don't think any other tuning company prevents you from resale or transferring your license to the new owner of your car, I think MHD is the only one that locks you in forever.



Overall I found BM3 to be way better than MHD ever was and was getting tired of them just not making changes that customers like myself would ask for (lag between shift, more guages so we don't need to remove gauges to see Ethanol content, password encryption for the wifi adapter, a front mounted flex fuel kit, the ability to sell or transfer a license etc etc etc). Also imo BM3 was way better compared to MHd from the level of customer service, from the fact that they actually care to listen to their customers, to having a significantly better GUI. And eventually when they release their Rev2 custom firmware they should match MHD in custom rom capability (the one thing MHD actually has on them right now) and far exceed them in many other areas (as mentioned above) - and that should make BM3 far better than MHD. Bm3 also hired a crap ton of new engineers hence why you're seeing all these new changes as of late, and that's what really made me switch from MHD - as they are really improving bm3 at such a rate that I believe they'll surpass MHD soon. For example they have their own data log viewer, table editor, web based tuning platform for computers, hardware design - all of which MHD doesn't even have. Bm3's gui imo also blow mhd's gui out of the water in terms of looks and customizability, and if you know how to code you know attractive gui's are always hard to make (human computer interaction is always difficult because people all have different tastes, and use computers in an unpredictable way - hence why even billion dollar companies can make a bad gui, windows 8 imo was an utter disaster and thags an example showing how hard it is to make a gui), and that just shows you the skill bm3 is adding to their team.

I don't hate MHD, they still make fantastic software and products, but I just got tired and needed a change and BM3 was that breath of fresh air that I needed.
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      03-03-2024, 11:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Image for reference on announcement
But yes, i thought you were talking about their V2 software not their rev2 board.
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      03-04-2024, 12:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
1) BM3 released their flexfuel tuning (even for DME's requiring FEMTO unlocking or not) for the gen 2 B58 and S58 way way way before MHD did, and at this moment I am still unsure if MHD supports flex fuel on the S58 yet.

2) BM3 develops hardware and software in house, so obviously it's going to take longer. MHD does not, they rely on motiv and bimecu to make the hardware. Plus when BM3 makes hardware they almost always do it right the first time, for example look at:

- MHD's flex fuel hardware vs. BM3. BM3 uses a high quality flexible braided AN line for connecting to the LPFP top hat. MHD uses that hard plastic line with very minimal flex, and is always a concern for cracking over time (I talk about it here to the creator of the kit: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...postcount=30). Now they switched to a braided AN line so any previous customer with the hardline has to buy a new one (thank fully they made that switch, I really hated that hard plastic line). MHD's flex fuel kit also draws power from the EKP, so not ideal for the F series n55's EKP which is already maxed out from the factory. BM3 also initially made the same design choice, but they have since revised it to take power from the FEM. MHD has not made this update, because it depends on their suppliers.

- BM3's flex fuel hardware has a bypass to lower restriction, MHD's does not. Again if MHD wanted to make this change they would have to depend on a 3rd party manufacturer, BM3 does everything in house.

-Next look at MHD's wifi adapter, they released the [...]
Interesting, didnt know all that thanks for info
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      03-05-2024, 12:45 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
1) BM3 released their flexfuel tuning (even for DME's requiring FEMTO unlocking or not) for the gen 2 B58 and S58 way way way before MHD did, and at this moment I am still unsure if MHD supports flex fuel on the S58 yet.

2) BM3 develops hardware and software in house, so obviously it's going to take longer. MHD does not, they rely on motiv and bimecu to make the hardware. Plus when BM3 makes hardware they almost always do it right the first time, for example look at:

- MHD's flex fuel hardware vs. BM3. BM3 uses a high quality flexible braided AN line for connecting to the LPFP top hat. MHD uses that hard plastic line with very minimal flex, and is always a concern for cracking over time (I talk about it here to the creator of the kit: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=30). Now they switched to a braided AN line so any previous customer with the hardline has to buy a new one (thank fully they made that switch, I really hated that hard plastic line). MHD's flex fuel kit also draws power from the EKP, so not ideal for the F series n55's EKP which is already maxed out from the factory. BM3 also initially made the same design choice, but they have since revised it to take power from the FEM. MHD has not made this update, because it depends on their suppliers.

- BM3's flex fuel hardware has a bypass to lower restriction, MHD's does not. Again if MHD wanted to make this change they would have to depend on a 3rd party manufacturer, BM3 does everything in house.

-Next look at MHD's wifi adapter, they released the initial orange adapter, and the black enet adapter. They hyped this adapter as revolutionary etc etc etc. Turns out the black enet adapter was a relabeled enet adapter from Taiwan.... Then years later they finally released their bespoke MHD purple adapter, so again customers had a nice time wasting money having to buy it twice. I know because I was one of them. Bm3 on the other hand released their adapter once. Also the BM3 wifi adapter has encryption built in due to customer request, MHD does not.

- Look at motive reflex, it launched with a beavy of major glitches and faults according to all the customers that insaw complaining online, and MHD was powerless to fix it and had to rely on motiv to fix it over time (remember reflex was made to be universal for all engines and all cars and for multiple tuning software, bm3's hardware will be bespoke for bm3 and bmw - so it's should have way higher integration and should be more reliable right out of the box). With BM3 they will be able to fix asap as they see issues, look at their wifi adapter for example, BM3 saw the issue with connectivity and released a fix almost immediately - you can expect the same when their rev 2 board is out.


3) In terms of their REV 2 board, they announced it in 2021 as a teaser of what it can support in the future. I'm talking about custom rom V2 which is the software that will actually support these new features. They only announced it late last year.


4) Then if you want to compare MHD vs. BM3 take a look at the other aspects:

- M2 customers specifically requested a tuning option to get rid of the lag between shift and asked both BM3 and MHD to make the fix. With BM3 they have released this fix years ago on their OTS maps and will work with tuners to implement the fix on custom tunes. MHD AFAIK never made the same update, instead they released flat foot shifting as their interpretation of a "fix" which is completely wrong. Bm3 customers asked for more gauges on the dash board, BM3 implemented it and you have like 36 gauges that are viewable. When I asked MHD they told me you can't view more than 8 gauges at once there is no point. BM3 customers asked for wifi adapter password encryption, BM3 gave it to us. From what I saw on facebook when people asked for wifi adapter encryption MHD said that it wasn't needed. BM3 enables laptop connectivity so if you want to flash tunes, look at logs on a large scree device, make tuning changes - you can do it all from your laptop. With MHD you have to log with a phone, upload it to datazap, then switch to your laptop to look at the log and make changes, then email that change to your phone before being able to flash. It was a huge hassle and BM3 is light years ahead of MHD in that regard.

So IMO one company gives the customers what they ask for, one company thinks they know whats best. That's one of the reasons why I left MHD for BM3.


- License resale: BM3 allows you to resell your license once. MHD will not only VIN lock your license (which is already horrible), but they also lock it to your email address so you are absolutely screwed and can't even transfer it to the new owner of your car. When people ask about it, MHD refuses to even left people change their email or enable reselling. So that's a pretty big blow to any MHD customer. BM3 also lets you test their license for 30 days and if you're not happy you get your money back no hassle. Have fun testing MHD or even having a small amount of regret, because you if you do regret your decision you're screwed. BTW I don't think any other tuning company prevents you from resale or transferring your license to the new owner of your car, I think MHD is the only one that locks you in forever.



Overall I found BM3 to be way better than MHD ever was and was getting tired of them just not making changes that customers like myself would ask for (lag between shift, more guages so we don't need to remove gauges to see Ethanol content, password encryption for the wifi adapter, a front mounted flex fuel kit, the ability to sell or transfer a license etc etc etc). Also imo BM3 was way better compared to MHd from the level of customer service, from the fact that they actually care to listen to their customers, to having a significantly better GUI. And eventually when they release their Rev2 custom firmware they should match MHD in custom rom capability (the one thing MHD actually has on them right now) and far exceed them in many other areas (as mentioned above) - and that should make BM3 far better than MHD. Bm3 also hired a crap ton of new engineers hence why you're seeing all these new changes as of late, and that's what really made me switch from MHD - as they are really improving bm3 at such a rate that I believe they'll surpass MHD soon. For example they have their own data log viewer, table editor, web based tuning platform for computers, hardware design - all of which MHD doesn't even have. Bm3's gui imo also blow mhd's gui out of the water in terms of looks and customizability, and if you know how to code you know attractive gui's are always hard to make (human computer interaction is always difficult because people all have different tastes, and use computers in an unpredictable way - hence why even billion dollar companies can make a bad gui, windows 8 imo was an utter disaster and thags an example showing how hard it is to make a gui), and that just shows you the skill bm3 is adding to their team.

I don't hate MHD, they still make fantastic software and products, but I just got tired and needed a change and BM3 was that breath of fresh air that I needed.
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