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      12-05-2019, 10:44 PM   #1
GeraldM2
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Ultimate Clutch Pedal risks?

Im thinking about getting the UCP but im afraid that lowering the position of the clutch will cause premature synchro damage. Does anyone know if 15mm lower will it past the dead point or does it sit within the dead point. im not a fan of how long the clutch is and how little feedback i get from it but im not willing to destroy my trans over it.
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      12-06-2019, 11:43 AM   #2
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I don't think you will destroy your trans with it. Reach out to HP Autosport with your concerns.
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      12-09-2019, 07:26 PM   #3
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Short answer: You have nothing to worry about, it sits lower not because it's keeping the clutch pushed in, but because the shape of the pedal is different. The whole throw is shorter than stock + BMS stop once it's installed, because the resting point is lower, but this is all in the geometry of the pedal shaft, not in terms of fluid flow etc.

I have the UCP, had the BMS clutch stop before that, and have also removed the CDV from my slave cylinder.

Honest opinion here... it's a very very well made product, but I swapped back to stock for a service a couple of weeks ago, and I think I might prefer stock. I tried all combinations of spring position etc, and I think I appreciate the additional control achieved with a slightly longer throw.

For me, the biggest difference was probably the BMS clutch stop because without that your foot seems to press on forever for no real reason, then close second the CDV, and then distant third, the UCP.

I don't want to knock the quality of the product, because it's truly very well made, but I'm in two minds as to whether I should swap back to UCP when I get my car back from service this afternoon.
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      12-10-2019, 12:06 AM   #4
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I have a BNIB one if you're interested and in NorCal.
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      12-10-2019, 01:49 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by kpaso View Post
I have a BNIB one if you're interested and in NorCal.
whats that? is it like the UCP?
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      12-10-2019, 01:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldM2 View Post
whats that? is it like the UCP?
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      12-10-2019, 03:19 PM   #7
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my bad lol. How much would u be willing to let it go for and are you willing to ship?
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      12-10-2019, 03:26 PM   #8
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I've been running for the UCP in my M235 for 2 years now. My M235 has the same 6MT as the M2 and I haven't had any issues. It does make the clutch take up more rapid. Install is a bit of a pain.
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      12-11-2019, 02:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I've been running for the UCP in my M235 for 2 years now. My M235 has the same 6MT as the M2 and I haven't had any issues. It does make the clutch take up more rapid.
Good summary!
Quote:
Install is a bit of a pain.
Have you tried putting the stock one back on? That's even harder!
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      12-11-2019, 03:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
Have you tried putting the stock one back on? That's even harder!
I've played around with the UCP countless times now removing the clutch helper springs and adjusting the firmness settings. I can have the lower dash panel off and the clutch helper springs removed in about 3 minutes. I could probably remove the UCP and swap in the stock pedal in about an hour, start to finish including removing the back-up camera module and camera module mounting box which are absolutely necessary for swapping pedals. For a first timer, it's probably 3+ hours figuring it all out. It's a tight space.

I personally felt more difference in improved clutch control with the UCP compared to the clutch stop. More importantly, the lower resting pedal height of the UCP makes for more comfortable driving, at least for me.
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      12-11-2019, 07:02 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by GeraldM2 View Post
my bad lol. How much would u be willing to let it go for and are you willing to ship?
I can probably do ~280 shipped or 260 picked up.
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      12-11-2019, 10:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I've played around with the UCP countless times now removing the clutch helper springs and adjusting the firmness settings. I can have the lower dash panel off and the clutch helper springs removed in about 3 minutes. I could probably remove the UCP and swap in the stock pedal in about an hour, start to finish including removing the back-up camera module and camera module mounting box which are absolutely necessary for swapping pedals. For a first timer, it's probably 3+ hours figuring it all out. It's a tight space.

I personally felt more difference in improved clutch control with the UCP compared to the clutch stop. More importantly, the lower resting pedal height of the UCP makes for more comfortable driving, at least for me.
I am curious which UCP setting you felt was the best feel? I had mine installed and set to the middle sport position with helper springs. I like the lower pedal position, but have noticed the rapid engagement in this setting I'm using is sometime annoying. I haven't tried to have it adjusted to a different setting yet, but would like your insight to settings you have tried that might minimize that rapid grabby feel?
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      12-11-2019, 10:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan King View Post
I am curious which UCP setting you felt was the best feel? I had mine installed and set to the middle sport position with helper springs. I like the lower pedal position, but have noticed the rapid engagement in this setting I'm using is sometime annoying. I haven't tried to have it adjusted to a different setting yet, but would like your insight to settings you have tried that might minimize that rapid grabby feel?
This is exactly the reason I am tempted not to re-install my UCP. The helper spring is designed to provide resistance before and after the bite point and help out around the bite point. I think the UCP moves the 'dead' position of the helper spring so it effectively no longer lines up with the bite point position. I ended up going with the position they claim is closest to stock, but still found modulating the bite point more difficult that the stock pedal.

I'm not sure if this is only a problem with newer cars or not. Maybe the E series cars had a different helper spring setup that wasn't as good as ours.

I'm probably going to put it back on, perhaps I'll even do it tonight, but there is a high chance I'll go back to stock again because it feels just great now with the stock pedal, CDV removed and the UCP stop (which is like the BMS stop).
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      12-12-2019, 10:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan King View Post
I am curious which UCP setting you felt was the best feel? I had mine installed and set to the middle sport position with helper springs. I like the lower pedal position, but have noticed the rapid engagement in this setting I'm using is sometime annoying. I haven't tried to have it adjusted to a different setting yet, but would like your insight to settings you have tried that might minimize that rapid grabby feel?
I've tried all sorts of ways and found that leaving all the springs in was the best for me in terms of feel and modulation. Completely removing the springs makes for a fairly heavy pedal. Removing either of the two springs changes how easy it is to push the pedal or how easily it pushes back. I've varied the stiffness settings via the three adjustment settings on pedal and found the middle setting the best. I removed the two metal washers from the UCP clutch stop to give me some more room before the onset of clutch engagement.

My biggest gripe is that throttle tuning tends to become quite rapid in the Sport settings once you tune, making smooth 1st gear take offs difficult. Then there's that damn CDV. That thing is the devil. It makes the bite point move around constantly. I want to buy the slave without the CDV but I'm worried about refilling the slave as so many report having issues with air in the line.
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      12-12-2019, 11:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I want to buy the slave without the CDV but I'm worried about refilling the slave as so many report having issues with air in the line.
The good thing is that you've researched the topic, and many forum members, including myself, have posted detailed guides along with diagrams, photos etc.

IMHO you only have two ways of refilling:
  1. Use a pressure bleed system that auto-refills from the top
  2. Re-fill, pump, re-fill, pump, re-fill, pump...
There is a reason why it's so hard to back fill the system - one way valves! Filling from the slave up does work, but you're pushing against one way valves and that could potentially damage them.

The one way valves actually make it supremely easy to do, once you know how. You can open the bleed screw and just leave it open (with a pipe to drain into a container). Go back up top, put a light under the reservoir so that you can see the fluid level in the clutch section, then make sure it's full and pump twice, re-fill, pump twice, re-fill. There is no need to do the bleed screw up between pumps because of the integral one way valves!

Once you've bled through a few ounces, tighten the bleed screw, pump a few more times and you're done.
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      12-12-2019, 01:03 PM   #16
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I would say there is no risk for premature synchro damage, at least from a mechanical and engineering standpoint. As previously mentioned, the pedal is simply a different shape and a more solid product. I've had one in an M4 for years, and now in my M2C, and never had any issues. In the M4, it actually made the 'grabby-ness' much smoother; in the M2, it had no impact on smoothness. I used their provided clutch stop, not the BMS one. The BMS one is too thick. Also, I used all the springs and have the setting in the middle one. If you don't use one or some of the springs, the pedal has more wobble and feels less solid.

Also, IME, the install was relatively straightforward, and did not require removal of the back-up cam module or any such parts. It is a tight fit for sure, and the proper order in install matters. If all goes well, I'd say it's about a 30 min job. I did a brief DIY if interested: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1211871

The OEM BMW pedal travel/feel is not bad in and of itself. When compared to other sports cars and sports coupes though, it is a bit long. For the money, I'd say it's a no-brainer.
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      12-12-2019, 10:44 PM   #17
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I have a question for everyone somewhat related to this... I am interested in getting the UCP but experience an issue with the stock pedal that I feel would only be exaggerated by installing the UCP. Basically, I installed the BMS clutch stop and found that when driving aggressively It would not allow for 100% clutch disengagement and I would grind gears(mostly 2nd, sometimes 3rd). I ended up removing all the spacers and only then could I shift without any grinding. Why this only seems to happen with my car and not many others running clutch stops is beyond me, but more importantly, can anyone comment on the ECP clutch stop thickness? I would hate to spend the cash and time/effort installing it just to have this issue rear its head again.
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      12-13-2019, 02:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezil View Post
This is exactly the reason I am tempted not to re-install my UCP. The helper spring is designed to provide resistance before and after the bite point and help out around the bite point. I think the UCP moves the 'dead' position of the helper spring so it effectively no longer lines up with the bite point position. I ended up going with the position they claim is closest to stock, but still found modulating the bite point more difficult that the stock pedal.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all here, but why would changing the shape of the pedal assembly itself change the stroke duration (bite point and modulation) of the slave cylinder arm that's connected to the pedal? Yes, the UCP does lower the resting height of the pedal and lowers where catch point starts, but I don't recall the catch point and duration of the bite point window shrinking with the UCP. Perhaps the excitement of installing the UCP skewed my reality

Are you saying when you swapped the stop pedal back in, modulating the bite point became easier and the bite point window increased?

I do have to say that this is one of the most difficult manuals to drive smoothly during normal driving, especially when leaving in 1st and the executing the 1-2 shift. I really have to think about it to make things smooth. I've been driving manuals for decades too. I find the bite point window to be really narrow (maybe it's the UCP?) and it moves around a lot (the damn CDV).

For hard driving, the UCP is money. I can hit the shifts very quickly due to the reduced pedal stroke and it seems to help with rev match downshifts. If you routinely track the car, this mod is a must.
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Last edited by XutvJet; 12-13-2019 at 02:09 PM..
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      12-13-2019, 02:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
I have a question for everyone somewhat related to this... I am interested in getting the UCP but experience an issue with the stock pedal that I feel would only be exaggerated by installing the UCP. Basically, I installed the BMS clutch stop and found that when driving aggressively It would not allow for 100% clutch disengagement and I would grind gears(mostly 2nd, sometimes 3rd). I ended up removing all the spacers and only then could I shift without any grinding. Why this only seems to happen with my car and not many others running clutch stops is beyond me, but more importantly, can anyone comment on the ECP clutch stop thickness? I would hate to spend the cash and time/effort installing it just to have this issue rear its head again.
The UCP comes with a clutch stop that's the same size as the BMS one. I haven't had any issues with the car grinding on shifts with the stock. I also removed a few metal washers from the stop because I thought the pedal caught the bite point too quickly off of the floor. I haven't noticed any issues.

Are you fairly new to driving manuals? If so, have to wonder if your foot work on the clutch and grabbing the gears is slightly off.
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      12-13-2019, 03:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
I have a question for everyone somewhat related to this... I am interested in getting the UCP but experience an issue with the stock pedal that I feel would only be exaggerated by installing the UCP. Basically, I installed the BMS clutch stop and found that when driving aggressively It would not allow for 100% clutch disengagement and I would grind gears(mostly 2nd, sometimes 3rd). I ended up removing all the spacers and only then could I shift without any grinding. Why this only seems to happen with my car and not many others running clutch stops is beyond me, but more importantly, can anyone comment on the ECP clutch stop thickness? I would hate to spend the cash and time/effort installing it just to have this issue rear its head again.
It sounds more to me that you might have air in the clutch hydraulics, causing the bite point to move down lower than it is on everyone else's cars.

I'd try bleeding it if I were you, but read up on the best way of doing that before you start, because though it's not hard at all, the reservoir is so tiny that it empties out in two pumps of the pedal and then you're introducing air again. Keep that reservoir section full!
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      12-13-2019, 03:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Are you saying when you swapped the stop pedal back in, modulating the bite point became easier and the bite point window increased?
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying
Quote:
I do have to say that this is one of the most difficult manuals to drive smoothly during normal driving, especially when leaving in 1st and the executing the 1-2 shift. I really have to think about it to make things smooth. I've been driving manuals for decades too. I find the bite point window to be really narrow (maybe it's the UCP?) and it moves around a lot (the damn CDV).
The CDV makes a huge difference in my opinion. I think a lot of the problem also comes from the sharp ramp up in torque that isn't there with naturally aspirated cars that you're probably more used to. This doesn't make modulating the bite point more difficult, but it does make modulating the throttle without load (between shifts and when pulling away) more difficult.

I went 6MT, and there are days that I really enjoy shifting myself, but I have to think that the way engines behave these days, the torque multiplication benefit of a torque converter at launch, and the speed at which the ZF 8 speed shifts these days... A sports car with a ZF 8 really isn't such a bad thing.

Would I order my M2 with a DCT or the next M car with a ZF 8? Maybe, I'm not sure...
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      12-16-2019, 06:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natek View Post
I have a question for everyone somewhat related to this... I am interested in getting the UCP but experience an issue with the stock pedal that I feel would only be exaggerated by installing the UCP. Basically, I installed the BMS clutch stop and found that when driving aggressively It would not allow for 100% clutch disengagement and I would grind gears(mostly 2nd, sometimes 3rd). I ended up removing all the spacers and only then could I shift without any grinding. Why this only seems to happen with my car and not many others running clutch stops is beyond me, but more importantly, can anyone comment on the ECP clutch stop thickness? I would hate to spend the cash and time/effort installing it just to have this issue rear its head again.
The UCP comes with a clutch stop that's the same size as the BMS one. I haven't had any issues with the car grinding on shifts with the stock. I also removed a few metal washers from the stop because I thought the pedal caught the bite point too quickly off of the floor. I haven't noticed any issues.

Are you fairly new to driving manuals? If so, have to wonder if your foot work on the clutch and grabbing the gears is slightly off.


I've been driving manuals for 20 years. I don't think that's it. One of my friends who also happens to be my service tech said he would checkout a few things including bleeding the clutch so we'll see. The car has done it since new and I was always a little bummed I couldn't use the clutch stop

Last edited by M2OG; 12-16-2019 at 11:01 PM..
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