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      11-28-2019, 03:46 PM   #45
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Yup, I drive mostly highway, I never thought a set of pads would last this long. Obviously BMW maintenance will cost more. Why wouldn't BMW be the brand lol? Yeah I don't track but I want a fun car, yes I get the m240i can be fun, but why not go all out.

I think I'm going to test drive the M2 and M4 and let that be my decision maker.

Last edited by MPR; 11-28-2019 at 09:58 PM..
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      11-28-2019, 05:19 PM   #46
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Having owned both, I can say both are two of the best cars I have owned. However after owning the M2 for 2 years, I feel much more connected to the road with its suspension. I always look forward to the next ride to the grocery store, or the next Track event at Watkins Glenn.
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      11-28-2019, 11:24 PM   #47
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The dealer has a 3-5 page PPI sheet that they have to fill out and give to you if you purchase it. It notes everything good and meh and bad about a car. Best ~$300 you'll spend if your buying used
You say the dealer has to do a PPI then say best $300 I'll spend. So is this something I ask for, or is it baked into the sale price? Or do I pay if buying from a non BMW dealer? I'm leaning towards an M4.
This is if you buy from a non BMW dealer: I guess you could do this with a car being sold by a BMW dealer, but at that point just ask for the CPO.
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      11-29-2019, 06:38 AM   #48
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"The dealer has a 3-5 page PPI sheet that they have to fill out and give to you if you purchase it."

So BMW dealers will do this for all BMWs sold?
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      11-29-2019, 11:53 AM   #49
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"The dealer has a 3-5 page PPI sheet that they have to fill out and give to you if you purchase it."

So BMW dealers will do this for all BMWs sold?
No. This is only applicable to used cars and you have to request the PPI. But if you are buying from a dealer you might as well ask for them to CPO the car. That will require a similar sheet to be done and they will extend the warranty.


In my original post I meant to say that they give you the PPI sheet for you to decide if you want to purchase it from the non-BMW source. But you could also buy it for the used car on their lot, however, as I note above, at that point it may just be better to have the car CPOd. Their warranty underwriters requires a pretty thorough check of the car and they give you the sheet.

Again this only applies to used cars.
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      11-29-2019, 06:00 PM   #50
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Thanks for clarifying. I've heard mixed things on CPO, I'd really only want it for whatever warranty/maintenance extension I'd get, and the PPI.

I keep going back and forth with the M2 and M4, and auto and manual.

M2: Small package, more raw and nimble, but not as cool looking. Yes, the M2 is still cool looking, but with the M4, you get a CF roof, heads up display, nicer interior, and a higher number after the M. Coming from an Integra GS-R to S2000 to BRZ, the M2 would be a good next step.
M4: A little big for my taste, not as nimble, looks awesome, can get interior in the color I want, more power. Probably more comfortable for 1+ hours rides. If this car truly gets the same fuel economy as the M2 I'm really going to have to think about this.

Auto: Would be nice for when I'm in stop and go traffic every day, but afraid I'd get bored with auto..however I've never had paddle shifters. Afraid of issues down the road with an automatic post-100k miles.
Manual: I love full control over RPM and the car in general. I've been driving manual for 20 years so I can continue to deal with it. No worrys of issues down the road aside from replacing a clutch. And I feel like if you get an M, it should be manual.
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      11-29-2019, 10:44 PM   #51
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Thanks for clarifying. I've heard mixed things on CPO, I'd really only want it for whatever warranty/maintenance extension I'd get, and the PPI.

I keep going back and forth with the M2 and M4, and auto and manual.

M2: Small package, more raw and nimble, but not as cool looking. Yes, the M2 is still cool looking, but with the M4, you get a CF roof, heads up display, nicer interior, and a higher number after the M. Coming from an Integra GS-R to S2000 to BRZ, the M2 would be a good next step.
M4: A little big for my taste, not as nimble, looks awesome, can get interior in the color I want, more power. Probably more comfortable for 1+ hours rides. If this car truly gets the same fuel economy as the M2 I'm really going to have to think about this.

Auto: Would be nice for when I'm in stop and go traffic every day, but afraid I'd get bored with auto..however I've never had paddle shifters. Afraid of issues down the road with an automatic post-100k miles.
Manual: I love full control over RPM and the car in general. I've been driving manual for 20 years so I can continue to deal with it. No worrys of issues down the road aside from replacing a clutch. And I feel like if you get an M, it should be manual.
You don't have any bad options but there are a ton of former M3/M4 owners that now have manual M2Cs. I for one came from an F80 DCT.
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      11-29-2019, 11:05 PM   #52
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You don't have any bad options but there are a ton of former M3/M4 owners that now have manual M2Cs. I for one came from an F80 DCT.
What didnt you like about the M3 that is making you switch to an M2?
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      11-30-2019, 11:17 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
You don't have any bad options but there are a ton of former M3/M4 owners that now have manual M2Cs. I for one came from an F80 DCT.
What didnt you like about the M3 that is making you switch to an M2?
I loved everything about my F80 M3. I just liked everything about the M2C that much more (hence why I say you have no bad options). But, as many many people have noted on this forum, the shorter wheelbase, upgraded looks and seats and brakes, the 6MT availability (which the F80 has too but combined with the rest is perfect), the price point, and the bliss feel on turn in and mountain carving made it a no brainer for me. I don't really need a 4 door as my wife has one (she has an F80 too), and I wanted the last great small M cars before they all turn to soulless straight line cars.

If you want a very performance driver oriented car - get the M2. If you want a performance driver oriented car that has a few compromises because it's also a more luxury focused car (see full leather options etc) then get the M3/4.
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      11-30-2019, 11:39 AM   #54
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I loved everything about my F80 M3. I just liked everything about the M2C that much more (hence why I say you have no bad options). But, as many many people have noted on this forum, the shorter wheelbase, upgraded looks and seats and brakes, the 6MT availability (which the F80 has too but combined with the rest is perfect), the price point, and the bliss feel on turn in and mountain carving made it a no brainer for me. I don't really need a 4 door as my wife has one (she has an F80 too), and I wanted the last great small M cars before they all turn to soulless straight line cars.

If you want a very performance driver oriented car - get the M2. If you want a performance driver oriented car that has a few compromises because it's also a more luxury focused car (see full leather options etc) then get the M3/4.
Thank you, that helps. I don't track or anything like I mentioned already, I commute 5 days a week around an hour each way so comfort is my priority. On a nice day or weekend, I like to have something that is fun. I think the M3 or M4 is the better choice.
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      11-30-2019, 12:07 PM   #55
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I commute 5 days a week around an hour each way so comfort is my priority.
MPR

If I drove 2h a day, 5 days a week the small M2C gas tank and 'modest' mpg would be a serious deterrent.

As a 718 CGTS owner, I have no bias . . . most recent M3/4 releases are absolutely awesome. In fact, you can easily find a gently broken in 2018 M3/4 with Competition Package for the exact ($60K) price point of a new M2C.

Take advantage of having someone else take the initial depreciation hit and you will find the M3/4 not only suits your commute needs, but it will also perform like a beast.

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      11-30-2019, 01:48 PM   #56
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Regardless of whether it's CPO or PPI from the dealer, I suggest taking whatever they say with a grain of salt. They are still a dealer, with bias, that has skin in the game. You should get an independent PPI if you really want an unbiased assessment.

Good luck with whatever you go with.
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      11-30-2019, 08:06 PM   #57
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OP, perhaps I missed it, but have you had a chance to take an extended test drive in any of these cars? I think that would be immensely useful and it should be easy to arrange for any of the cars you are considering.

FWIW, here are my thoughts after driving an F80 M3 for three years and then switching to a M2C this year as my DD.

M240i: Truly, this is all the car anyone needs for a DD, and you can add a LSD if you want. And, since this would be a new car purchase, you can order exactly what you want and not deal with all the BS of buying a used car. However, I think you've already answered your question on this by reflecting that anytime you might see a full-fat M model on the road, you would regret the purchase of the M240i. That would be a killer after making this kind of purchase. So, let's move along...

M2 (OG or LCI): While I have not checked prices lately, these have to be a sweet deal after the M2C was released. Between the M240i and this, I'd have the M2 in a heartbeat. But then, I have drank the M Kool-Aid since 2004, and really don't consider non-Ms anymore. If you do pick one up, I think you'll understand why.

F82 M4: Interesting option given your highway travels, when the size of the car won't be much of an issue. And you get the S55, which, I am a big fan of. Sure it has the turbo issues vs. a NA aspirated unit, but it does sing to 7400 convincingly enough to almost make you think it is NA...However, when spending this amount of money for a car you want to keep long-term, I'd want to find a 2016+ ZCP model. The changes in steering feel and traction/torque delivery are significant (yes, I have driven both). BMW never admitted it, but many people feel that all F8X M3/4 produced after 3/2016 (when the ZCP was first offered) have similar upgrades. I cannot offer an opinion on that because the non-ZCP M3 I sampled was a 2015 model.

For reference, why did I switch the M2C? Well, I have an E39 M5, and the F80 was the same size. It was just too big for what I wanted in a DD. It was not as fun and nimble as I thought it would be. For that size car I actually prefer my old M5...And the ride was not good, and I have a high tolerance for stiff rides (e.g. my Z4M coupe). Now, that could have been the 20 inch 666 wheels, which I think are too big for the car. And, the adaptive suspension was a joke - in comfort mode, it was stiff and much more brittle than the M2C, and crashed over any road imperfections. So when the M2C was announced, and I saw that I could get the engine I wanted in the M2 body, I was immediately sold. For my needs/wants, this has been a great decision.

Good news is that taken by themselves, any of the cars your are considering are fantastic. GL!
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      11-30-2019, 08:51 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPR View Post
Thanks for clarifying. I've heard mixed things on CPO, I'd really only want it for whatever warranty/maintenance extension I'd get, and the PPI.

I keep going back and forth with the M2 and M4, and auto and manual.

M2: Small package, more raw and nimble, but not as cool looking. Yes, the M2 is still cool looking, but with the M4, you get a CF roof, heads up display, nicer interior, and a higher number after the M. Coming from an Integra GS-R to S2000 to BRZ, the M2 would be a good next step.
M4: A little big for my taste, not as nimble, looks awesome, can get interior in the color I want, more power. Probably more comfortable for 1+ hours rides. If this car truly gets the same fuel economy as the M2 I'm really going to have to think about this.

Auto: Would be nice for when I'm in stop and go traffic every day, but afraid I'd get bored with auto..however I've never had paddle shifters. Afraid of issues down the road with an automatic post-100k miles.
Manual: I love full control over RPM and the car in general. I've been driving manual for 20 years so I can continue to deal with it. No worrys of issues down the road aside from replacing a clutch. And I feel like if you get an M, it should be manual.
There are more issues on the forum with the mt than the DCT. That said the DCT is more expensive to fix if it does come up.
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      11-30-2019, 08:53 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
I loved everything about my F80 M3. I just liked everything about the M2C that much more (hence why I say you have no bad options). But, as many many people have noted on this forum, the shorter wheelbase, upgraded looks and seats and brakes, the 6MT availability (which the F80 has too but combined with the rest is perfect), the price point, and the bliss feel on turn in and mountain carving made it a no brainer for me. I don't really need a 4 door as my wife has one (she has an F80 too), and I wanted the last great small M cars before they all turn to soulless straight line cars.

If you want a very performance driver oriented car - get the M2. If you want a performance driver oriented car that has a few compromises because it's also a more luxury focused car (see full leather options etc) then get the M3/4.
Thank you, that helps. I don't track or anything like I mentioned already, I commute 5 days a week around an hour each way so comfort is my priority. On a nice day or weekend, I like to have something that is fun. I think the M3 or M4 is the better choice.
Is the m4 really more comfortable though? Have you test driven the seats back to back?
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      11-30-2019, 09:03 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by smknjoe View Post
Regardless of whether it's CPO or PPI from the dealer, I suggest taking whatever they say with a grain of salt. They are still a dealer, with bias, that has skin in the game. You should get an independent PPI if you really want an unbiased assessment.

Good luck with whatever you go with.
Absolutely take it to indi BMW shop for PPI. Or make them CPO it so you have warranty.

I had my 2011 e90 m3 ZCP go in for a PPI. They sent me a report.
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      11-30-2019, 09:05 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
OP, perhaps I missed it, but have you had a chance to take an extended test drive in any of these cars? I think that would be immensely useful and it should be easy to arrange for any of the cars you are considering.

FWIW, here are my thoughts after driving an F80 M3 for three years and then switching to a M2C this year as my DD.

M240i: Truly, this is all the car anyone needs for a DD, and you can add a LSD if you want. And, since this would be a new car purchase, you can order exactly what you want and not deal with all the BS of buying a used car. However, I think you've already answered your question on this by reflecting that anytime you might see a full-fat M model on the road, you would regret the purchase of the M240i. That would be a killer after making this kind of purchase. So, let's move along...

M2 (OG or LCI): While I have not checked prices lately, these have to be a sweet deal after the M2C was released. Between the M240i and this, I'd have the M2 in a heartbeat. But then, I have drank the M Kool-Aid since 2004, and really don't consider non-Ms anymore. If you do pick one up, I think you'll understand why.

F82 M4: Interesting option given your highway travels, when the size of the car won't be much of an issue. And you get the S55, which, I am a big fan of. Sure it has the turbo issues vs. a NA aspirated unit, but it does sing to 7400 convincingly enough to almost make you think it is NA...However, when spending this amount of money for a car you want to keep long-term, I'd want to find a 2016+ ZCP model. The changes in steering feel and traction/torque delivery are significant (yes, I have driven both). BMW never admitted it, but many people feel that all F8X M3/4 produced after 3/2016 (when the ZCP was first offered) have similar upgrades. I cannot offer an opinion on that because the non-ZCP M3 I sampled was a 2015 model.

For reference, why did I switch the M2C? Well, I have an E39 M5, and the F80 was the same size. It was just too big for what I wanted in a DD. It was not as fun and nimble as I thought it would be. For that size car I actually prefer my old M5...And the ride was not good, and I have a high tolerance for stiff rides (e.g. my Z4M coupe). Now, that could have been the 20 inch 666 wheels, which I think are too big for the car. And, the adaptive suspension was a joke - in comfort mode, it was stiff and much more brittle than the M2C, and crashed over any road imperfections. So when the M2C was announced, and I saw that I could get the engine I wanted in the M2 body, I was immediately sold. For my needs/wants, this has been a great decision.

Good news is that taken by themselves, any of the cars your are considering are fantastic. GL!
Extended test drive? What's that? I haven't driven any BMW's in my current car hunt. What I've test driven so far only include an Audi S3 and RS3. The S3 had me sold until the uncomfortable seats unsold me.

ZCP is the competition package? I am unfamiliar with what packages provide what. I really want the CF roof and the competition package seats.
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      11-30-2019, 09:11 PM   #62
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Extended test drive = see if they will let you keep it overnight. Good luck with that, but some places will let you do it. It's pretty hard to get a good feel for a car on a short 15 minute drive.
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      11-30-2019, 09:20 PM   #63
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I figured, but I have the feeling dealers hate letting people test drive the M cars, let alone take one home.

I think an extended test drive, say a 30 minute cruise will be enough. If I go with the M2, there's one pretty much exactly as I want it readily available for cheap

https://www.bmwofturnersville.com/in...1h9c3xhv887847
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      11-30-2019, 09:32 PM   #64
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I figured, but I have the feeling dealers hate letting people test drive the M cars, let alone take one home.

I think an extended test drive, say a 30 minute cruise will be enough. If I go with the M2, there's one pretty much exactly as I want it readily available for cheap

https://www.bmwofturnersville.com/in...1h9c3xhv887847
MPR

Nice!

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      12-01-2019, 08:18 AM   #65
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Used M2 all day. When you get that M240i and you see that M2 drive by you.... you don't want that feeling.
Oboy. Are you sure about that?



Here is a video that shows the opposite of what you just clamied.

Anyways. If daily, i would go M240 and save some cash.

If locked diff and stiffer ride are your prioritys get M2.
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      12-01-2019, 10:01 AM   #66
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Oboy. Are you sure about that?

Here is a video that shows the opposite of what you just clamied.

Anyways. If daily, i would go M240 and save some cash.

If locked diff and stiffer ride are your prioritys get M2.
I'm not sure he meant that from a racing perspective, it's not how I initially referenced it anyway. I meant it from a envy/buyers-remorse perspective seeing an M on the highway, not one beating my 240 in a race.

I wouldn't save cash based on the car I decide to go with as all are the same price basically.

High 40's to low 50's:
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  • Used M2
  • Used M3
  • Used M4
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