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      11-25-2019, 09:17 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
There's something special about driving an M division product, especially the M2.

Beyond the driving dynamics you have the noise, styling, and uniqueness aspect of it all.
Yeah, definitely a huge selling point IMO, I will have no regrets there. While if I buy the M240i, I would be thinking I should have got the M.

Here are the primary things I have to figure out before pulling the trigger:

1. MPG for those that drive mostly on the highway. While driving on the highway, what does your real-time MPG gauge tell you? I get 30 now, I think I could live with 26 if this is accurate.

2. Long-term reliability. I know this is tough since this car is still pretty new. All cars I buy have to go for the long haul since I drive ~25k per year so I will have this thing until likely 150k-200k miles. After 2-3 years it will be high mileage and I wouldn't make much money back so it's worthwhile just keeping it.

3. Ease of maintenance for common things: brake pads, oil, brake fluid, transmission fluid.

4. Manual vs auto. I hear no bad things about the auto so I am leaning towards it since I sit in 15-20 minutes of traffic each way for work, every day. Plus it'll be much easier in the morning while drinking coffee. I think the auto will also be a lot easier to find. But long term, I think replacing a clutch will be easier than having work done on a slush box.
I easily get ~21.5-22 MPG mixed driving while STILL getting into the pedal at least a few times each outing. That's historical avg not real-time. Manual transmission.

I'd expect to get maybe 25+ in Efficient + highway only.

It's virtually impossible for me to drive it and stay out of the throttle.
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      11-25-2019, 09:41 PM   #24
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Yea, that's what I'm afraid of. I'm stuck driving 46 miles each way to work, I'll be fueling up every other day. I wish there were still fun 4 bangers out there besides the BRZ that don't look hideous like the Civic Si/Type-R.

Edit: I pretty much fill up every 3 days at it is now, so yeah I can live with it

Last edited by MPR; 11-25-2019 at 09:58 PM..
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      11-26-2019, 06:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by MPR View Post
Yea, that's what I'm afraid of. I'm stuck driving 46 miles each way to work, I'll be fueling up every other day. I wish there were still fun 4 bangers out there besides the BRZ that don't look hideous like the Civic Si/Type-R.

Edit: I pretty much fill up every 3 days at it is now, so yeah I can live with it
apparently the veloster N is a good drive with some BMW in its genes (its creator), but it is also quite "unique" looking

as for your original question, I debated the OG M2 vs m240i about 2 years ago. I test drove both.

My impressions

M2 over M240i:
looks
sound
sharp handling

M240i over M2
ride comfort
engine (b58 less lag and just felt more eager and stronger at low rpms)
4wd capability


tough call

For me coming from a 981 Cayman S with the x73 suspension, I was really drawn to something more comfortable. I also really did find the b58 to be a more engaging motor than the n55. So I went with the m240i.

But now I've ordered an M2C, so there's that. But that is partly a missing manual thing. I think if my m240i was a manual I would have been ok sticking with it...and not have ordered an M2C (or at least waited for the s58 version)

Best with the decision!
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      11-26-2019, 05:24 PM   #26
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People quoting the ZF as a just torque converting auto, it's used on all new M cars so it can't be that bad. With a flash it feels just as fast as DCTs while still remaining comfortable and smooth at lower gears/rpm. Not saying I would ever opt for one (save the manuals), but it shouldn't be looked at as a strict negative. Also, the lack of a stock optioned LSD literally doesn't matter. You can easily get your own preferred solution like quaife or a wavetrac, or simply swap in the mlsd like normal.

I think you already know what car is right for you OP


Hint : it's the m240
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      11-26-2019, 06:13 PM   #27
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Is it unheard of to put a lot of miles on an M [2,3,4] due to highway commuting? Like I mentioned a few times already, I drive 92 miles a day/24k a year, so buying one lightly used I will be in the 6 digit mileage territory within 3-3.5 years. I'm probably looking at more than usual maintenance costs and I guess higher risk of motor failure at 75k+ mileage since these motors are high output, especially if I go M4. These are just assumptions obviously. I'm at 170k in my BRZ and have only replaced the clutch, 1 wheel bearing, AC condenser, and rear brake pads.. I'd love to get this reliability treatment from an M 2-4. I think the main thing making me hesitate on the M, or BMW in general, is how many miles I'll rack up on it, diminishing it's value quickly. Honestly, if I love it I guess resale value doesn't matter as I'll drive it to the wheels fall off like my BRZ, I am pushing 7 years in it and still enjoy it every day.

Are M's all in general the same in regard to replacement parts cost, or does the cost go in sequence with the number following the M? The M4 is a really nice car, I prefer something smaller but the 4 is such a great looking car and I love the interior. And fuel economy is somehow the same as the 2.

One side of my brain is saying "buy another reliable & fun Japanese car that will last to 200k+", the other side is saying "you've always wanted an M, you will love every drive in it, yolo".

@POMFKIMOCHI, I'm torn. Yeah I live in the northeast which gets snow, but does this justify getting AWD just for 5 or so days a year when I can just work from home on those days? From a comfort, reliability, and getting to own new vs used perspective, yes M240 wins. I have a feeling I'd be cruising on the highway and see an M cruise by and think to myself damn it lol.

Last edited by MPR; 11-26-2019 at 08:04 PM..
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      11-26-2019, 08:20 PM   #28
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I'm ~2.5-3 months into mine and have 5,200 miles AND work from home quite a bit. I can't stop driving this thing!

Hope it holds up at least 150,000 miles, but we'll see.

I'll be happy if it's worth $20,000 if I decide to trade it in by then. Not going to hold my breath on that one.
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      11-27-2019, 07:43 AM   #29
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I live in Toronto, and frankly opted for rwd to take advantage and have some extra fun during our winters. I was thinking about the auto/zf with rwd combo when looking at some 235s but settled with a manual rwd because it was well kept. Trust me when I say, I literally NEVER feel any resentment or jealousy towards m2s, I see them as different cars so to speak, like an m3/4. I actually almost feel a little bad for their n55s 🤭
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      11-27-2019, 10:53 AM   #30
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I like having the ability to pick interior color with the 240, I have been wanting a white/red combo forever. I think manual is the way to go for long term owners, I think the reliability is more trustworthy and will be easier to service/maintain.

Its a tough decision, I really need to drive both and then sleep on it.
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      11-27-2019, 12:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by MPR View Post
I like having the ability to pick interior color with the 240, I have been wanting a white/red combo forever. I think manual is the way to go for long term owners, I think the reliability is more trustworthy and will be easier to service/maintain.

Its a tough decision, I really need to drive both and then sleep on it.
Yep.

I thought about the M240 before getting my M2C. It certainly seems like the more sensible option on paper.

However, I could not find a 240 locally to test drive, but there were a few M2s and the rest is history...



Edit: save the manuals! I had to order mine. They never have any on lots around here.
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      11-27-2019, 01:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Moflow View Post
A couple things to also think about: The M240i has a torque-converter auto while the auto in the M2 is a DCT. In addition to the driving characteristic differences, that's something to take into account since you work on your cars.
The ZF 8 speed, while being a normal torque-converter tranny, is absolutely awesome. It's no wonder that they're being put into every car available nowadays. Also I'm pretty sure that I read that the 7 speed DCT from BMW is a thing of the past, as moving forward the auto BMW's will have a ZF (I could be wrong, but I swear it was on here somewhere).
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      11-27-2019, 03:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by MPR View Post
Is it unheard of to put a lot of miles on an M [2,3,4] due to highway commuting? Like I mentioned a few times already, I drive 92 miles a day/24k a year, so buying one lightly used I will be in the 6 digit mileage territory within 3-3.5 years. I'm probably looking at more than usual maintenance costs and I guess higher risk of motor failure at 75k+ mileage since these motors are high output, especially if I go M4. These are just assumptions obviously. I'm at 170k in my BRZ and have only replaced the clutch, 1 wheel bearing, AC condenser, and rear brake pads.. I'd love to get this reliability treatment from an M 2-4. I think the main thing making me hesitate on the M, or BMW in general, is how many miles I'll rack up on it, diminishing it's value quickly. Honestly, if I love it I guess resale value doesn't matter as I'll drive it to the wheels fall off like my BRZ, I am pushing 7 years in it and still enjoy it every day.

Are M's all in general the same in regard to replacement parts cost, or does the cost go in sequence with the number following the M? The M4 is a really nice car, I prefer something smaller but the 4 is such a great looking car and I love the interior. And fuel economy is somehow the same as the 2.

One side of my brain is saying "buy another reliable & fun Japanese car that will last to 200k+", the other side is saying "you've always wanted an M, you will love every drive in it, yolo".

@POMFKIMOCHI, I'm torn. Yeah I live in the northeast which gets snow, but does this justify getting AWD just for 5 or so days a year when I can just work from home on those days? From a comfort, reliability, and getting to own new vs used perspective, yes M240 wins. I have a feeling I'd be cruising on the highway and see an M cruise by and think to myself damn it lol.
Not unheard of at all. I daily mine (n55 engine) and know a few others who do as well. I feel like the n55 and s55 engines have all had their issues found. Preventative maintenance is well documented for each. Only downfall is the consumables(oil, gas, tires, filters, replacement parts) are going to be more expensive than the Japanese car. The m240i will largely use the same consumables so that's when I'd opt for the M car. I bought mine used and have had zero issues so far.
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      11-27-2019, 05:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
The ZF 8 speed, while being a normal torque-converter tranny, is absolutely awesome. It's no wonder that they're being put into every car available nowadays. Also I'm pretty sure that I read that the 7 speed DCT from BMW is a thing of the past, as moving forward the auto BMW's will have a ZF (I could be wrong, but I swear it was on here somewhere).
Just to clarify, the transmission difference is something to note for people who work on cars. I'm not making a judgement call about which is better.

Personally, if forced to choose between the two self-shifters, I'd rather have a really nice torque converter auto than a so-so dual clutch unit (i've been told the 7-speed DCT in the m2 is good but not great.)

Quote:
I live in Toronto, and frankly opted for rwd to take advantage and have some extra fun during our winters. I was thinking about the auto/zf with rwd combo when looking at some 235s but settled with a manual rwd because it was well kept. Trust me when I say, I literally NEVER feel any resentment or jealousy towards m2s, I see them as different cars so to speak, like an m3/4. I actually almost feel a little bad for their n55s ��
There's an M240i that parks one level up from me at the parking garage at my house. I drive by it every time i'm coming and going in my M2 Competition. Every time I think two things
1. That's a nice car! and
2. I wish my car was that color (mineral grey, WHY WOULD YOU DROP THAT ONE FOR THE Comp BMW?)

The M2, the M2 Competition, and the M240i are all nice cars. There isn't a single one of those vehicles I wouldn't enjoy driving the fuck out of.

Last edited by Moflow; 11-27-2019 at 05:59 PM..
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      11-27-2019, 06:16 PM   #35
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N55 reliability is known and rock solid. It's been around for a long time.

b58 is new and unknown. Seems like a great engine, but who knows if reliable.

Also m2 drivers better and looks way better.
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      11-27-2019, 06:34 PM   #36
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Good points. I think the M2 will be funner and I'd be prouder to drive it, while I think the M240 would be the 'smarter' choice.

I am leaning more towards the M. A local dealer has a 2017 in white, manual, with 7k miles, 1 owner, for 46k. Looks clean except for the window tint.

I want to get a PPI, are there vendors that do these? How do I find one?

And sorry for all the questions, but is there anything negative/bad in going with the M4 instead, aside from being a bigger car and not as tossable? I think it looks a bit nicer and has more power, and it is closely priced. Somehow has the same fuel economy.

Last edited by MPR; 11-27-2019 at 10:55 PM..
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      11-28-2019, 12:20 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPR View Post
Good points. I think the M2 will be funner and I'd be prouder to drive it, while I think the M240 would be the 'smarter' choice.

I am leaning more towards the M. A local dealer has a 2017 in white, manual, with 7k miles, 1 owner, for 46k. Looks clean except for the window tint.

I want to get a PPI, are there vendors that do these? How do I find one?

And sorry for all the questions, but is there anything negative/bad in going with the M4 instead, aside from being a bigger car and not as tossable? I think it looks a bit nicer and has more power, and it is closely priced. Somehow has the same fuel economy.
Dealers can do a PPI. So can a local Indy
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      11-28-2019, 12:53 AM   #38
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Dealers can do a PPI. So can a local Indy
Are they trustworthy though?

"Yeah, this car is mint, sign right here."
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      11-28-2019, 01:07 AM   #39
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Dealers can do a PPI. So can a local Indy
Are they trustworthy though?

"Yeah, this car is mint, sign right here."
The dealer has a 3-5 page PPI sheet that they have to fill out and give to you if you purchase it. It notes everything good and meh and bad about a car. Best ~$300 you'll spend if your buying used
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      11-28-2019, 04:38 AM   #40
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I have no bias either way toward the m240, M2 or the M 3/4. But there are many members here who have opted for the m240 versus the M2 and it had nothing to do with price. They felt it was a better all-around daily driver and it had more low-end torque which suited there daily driver needs more.
The M240i has more low-end torque than than the M2? Its B58 has 369 lb-ft @ 1520 rpm & the M2's N55 has the same 369 lb-ft @ 1450 rpm... That said, the B58 is the newer lump and for sure people do report it FEELS a bit stronger and it seems to get great reviews in general (regardless, I would never pick an M240i over an M2 - one glance at the two of them and it's instantly all over for the M240i in my book ).

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Originally Posted by akkando View Post
N55 reliability is known and rock solid. It's been around for a long time.

b58 is new and unknown. Seems like a great engine, but who knows if reliable.

Also m2 drivers better and looks way better.
The B58 isn't really new or unknown anymore - it's been in production for 4 years now.
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      11-28-2019, 11:38 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
The dealer has a 3-5 page PPI sheet that they have to fill out and give to you if you purchase it. It notes everything good and meh and bad about a car. Best ~$300 you'll spend if your buying used
You say the dealer has to do a PPI then say best $300 I'll spend. So is this something I ask for, or is it baked into the sale price? Or do I pay if buying from a non BMW dealer? I'm leaning towards an M4.
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      11-28-2019, 04:07 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by MPR View Post
Good points. I think the M2 will be funner and I'd be prouder to drive it, while I think the M240 would be the 'smarter' choice.

I am leaning more towards the M. A local dealer has a 2017 in white, manual, with 7k miles, 1 owner, for 46k. Looks clean except for the window tint.

I want to get a PPI, are there vendors that do these? How do I find one?

And sorry for all the questions, but is there anything negative/bad in going with the M4 instead, aside from being a bigger car and not as tossable? I think it looks a bit nicer and has more power, and it is closely priced. Somehow has the same fuel economy.
There is nothing smarter about the m240 except the gas milage.
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      11-28-2019, 04:12 PM   #43
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I owned an M235i before my 2018 M2 and I replaced it with the M2 because I doing track days more and more and the M235i chassis and suspension was just not up to the task.

If its just for a daily driver the M240i makes a lot of sens, the M2C is fine but what you gain in performance and character, you lose in comfort and civility.
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      11-28-2019, 04:39 PM   #44
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Decided to get something new and was close to purchasing an S3 but found that the seats are uncomfortable compared to those in the S4 and with further reading the S3 is pretty much a VW in Audi clothing. I still love how it looks, but with how much I drive, I can't be uncomfortable.

I then began considering BMW and was looking into the M240i which in most reviews wins over the S3. With it having the B58 which is shared with the Supra makes me a little more confident in the reliability department.

I then started considering a lightly used M2. I found some 2017/2018's with around 10k for high 40's, which will end up being cheaper than a new M240i. The M2 does have the N series motor which I've read mixed things about from a reliability perspective. I did some searching and found plenty of 335's with over 100k for sale so it looks like they are holding up.

I drive 46 miles each way for work, 4-5 days a week, so around 100 per day, 25k or so per year. My current car, a 2013 Subaru BRZ has held up well since it had 6 miles on the clock, now at 170k and still on the original front brake pads.

Those who have experience with the M2, what are your thoughts on long term reliability and maintenance costs with the number of highway miles I drive? Safer to go M2 or M240i? I don't track or anything, really just want a fun daily, thinking the M2 will put a bigger smile on my face, but I think I'd be happy with either.
From your story, the way you use your car(s), it seems like m240i would be more your car of the two. Didn't know you could run a single set of brake pads for 170k miles... on any car... well, maybe neither of these two is your car... maybe BMW is not even the brand. Even with your style, most basic regular BMW maintenance would cost you way more than what you're used to with your Subaru. Those two are both great cars, each in its own right, just not sure those are the cars you want.
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