BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Competition Model > "Money shift" on my 6MT M2 Competition - Car engine got replaced

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-15-2019, 01:24 PM   #155
Proctor750
Lieutenant
396
Rep
523
Posts

Drives: E30 M3
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Hattie B's

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caduceus View Post
Probably one of those "I always drive everywhere with DSC off" type people.
I see this comment evolving into "one of those 'I always drive the car myself' type people" once everything else is automated.
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2019, 04:38 AM   #156
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
Netherlands
5043
Rep
7,483
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands/ Lilyhammer, Norway

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
That's correct.

See for example this Cayman GT4 video at Nürburgring (miss-shift but no money shift, because all is OK):
  • 03:26: driver shifts from 2nd gear to 3rd gear and keeps accelerating;
  • 03:31: driver shifts by mistake from 3rd gear to 2nd gear; rev-match/auto-blip 'warns' him with a wail as soon as the gear stick accesses the 2nd gear slot/gate, while he still keeps the clutch depressed;
  • 03:32: driver quickly pulls the gear stick out of the 2nd gear slot/gate whilst still keeping the clutch depressed, shifts to 4th gear, releases the clutch and accelerates. All's fine.
Average driver vs a poor driver(Lambo)

Shaking the steering wheel. Guy really doesn't feel confident with the car....

But anyway he did it. Kudos.

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
      11-17-2019, 05:47 AM   #157
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
Belgium
10985
Rep
9,757
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C (BSM)
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
Average driver vs a poor driver(Lambo)
Shaking the steering wheel. Guy really doesn't feel confident with the car....
But anyway he did it. Kudos.
Come on Robin_NL, the GT4 driver noted that it was the first drive with his GT4 at The Ring. Not his first time at The Ring, but the first time with his brand new car. 07:58 Bridge to Gantry is no rookie time, considering also a Lambo driver (no manual gearbox) in front of him who didn't let him pass (manual gearbox and hundreds of hp less). Understandably the driver did not want to total his brand new car. And not everyone can drive like Stefan Bellof or Timo Bernhard when taking a new car for the first time over The Ring.

Also the video from the Ring Taxi behind the GT4 + comments by the Ring Taxi driver give a better perspective of the drive.
"Published on 3 Apr 2016
Me trying to keep up with a cool Lamborghini Aventador LP 750-4 SV in my brand new Porsche 981 Cayman GT4.
My laptime was 7:58" BTG. There were a couple of time where I could have passed him but I chose not to take any risks and keep him in front of me.
I was so excited that I forgot to put on my right glove!
Dale Lomas from BridgeToGantry.com was just behind me the whole time while driving the BMW Ring Taxi.
Be sure to check out the footage from him driving behind me!

This sure was a once in a lifetime experience!
It was my first time at the ring with my new brand new Cayman GT4.
What a machine!
My Cayman GT4 is 100% stock with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres."
A way more spirited lap with no-one around (Timo Bernhard):
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 2
5.M0NSTER637.00
smknjoe22.50

      12-01-2019, 02:06 PM   #158
SkyDubBlue
Custom User Title?
Germany
37
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Where the Wild Things Are

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
I will say tho, your car sounds incredible! I didn't know that engine could sound so good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris82 View Post
I will say tho, your car sounds incredible! I didn't know that engine could sound so good.
Lol power of Catless Downpipes and Eventuri intake
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2019, 02:11 PM   #159
SkyDubBlue
Custom User Title?
Germany
37
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Where the Wild Things Are

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
According to the Instagram post of the video, the revmatch feature is what caused the RPMs to go so high. Did he even let the clutch out?
Isn't rev match disabled in DSC OFF? That's why Artemis clarified in later posts why it's important to leave it on so it gives you an audible warning. Won't help you either way once you release the clutch if you were intending to go into an upshift off redline and go down a gear instead.

Just MDM not DSC off, for clarification
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2019, 02:15 PM   #160
SkyDubBlue
Custom User Title?
Germany
37
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Where the Wild Things Are

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
A money shift could happen to anyone.
??? No. You have to use a lot of muscle to force a BMW gearbox to downshift instead of upshift. Drivers should learn some finesse. It takes almost no force to upshift these gearboxes. I cannot understand why I see people nearly rip their shift knobs off making shifts. Get yourselves a DCT ffs.

Lmao have you ever shifted a gear before? There's no magical lockout, up/down weight changes. I put my stick in the wrong hole man
Appreciate 4
cptobvious2011.50
Tornado1M562.00
sq86237.00
BlkSVT348.00

      12-01-2019, 02:18 PM   #161
SkyDubBlue
Custom User Title?
Germany
37
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Where the Wild Things Are

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfurse View Post
Not that a short clip provides all the evidence needed to judge the OP here but on the face of it, it doesn't look like he's "driving appropriate to the conditions".

If the money shift happened on a drag attempt on a strip or a track day I'd say "fair enough" but a brutal shift on a public road at high revs in heavy rain particularly on this platform...well its ballsy at best and negligent at worst.

It's actually quite miraculous the rears didn't lock too and the car spin out (I've had that happen on cars with bigger V8's with more engine momentum).
I'm still not convinced he let the clutch out, especially with him saying that it was the rev match feature that caused the rpms to climb rather then him finishing the shift.

OP needs to update with what exactly happened.

Please just read my post on insta. @M2_skyblue
Didn't clutch out. Engine took a shit immediately. No wheel spin or lock.
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2019, 02:21 PM   #162
SkyDubBlue
Custom User Title?
Germany
37
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Where the Wild Things Are

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
I'm still not convinced he let the clutch out, especially with him saying that it was the rev match feature that caused the rpms to climb rather then him finishing the shift.

OP needs to update with what exactly happened.
Not likely. Rev match can't request more than the rev limiter. And a money shift means you let the clutch out. Otherwise what would accelerate the engine speed past the point of damage? Rev match can't damage the engine, it's just annoying. But still slave to engine management software.
#notstock
#badtune
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2019, 02:24 PM   #163
SkyDubBlue
Custom User Title?
Germany
37
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Where the Wild Things Are

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
So what does the rev match function do when you attempt to go into too low of a gear for your current speed? I'm certainly not going to try to find out but does it just rev match up to redline or fuel cut or not do anything at all?

I've watched it a few times at 1/4 speed but the camera moves toward the dash right after he puts the clutch in and you can't see what's happening with his feet or his hand until everything is over with.
My educated guess is it bounces off the rev limiter until he has it in gear and lets off the clutch. This means spark is already cut, but as clutch is released the rear wheels cause the revs to exceed max.

The interesting thing as chris719 said is that the rods, pistons or valves were not damaged (as far as we know).
Not true, please read full post on instgram @m2_skyblue

Rods were fine. Pistons trashed, valves done for
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2019, 02:27 PM   #164
SkyDubBlue
Custom User Title?
Germany
37
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Where the Wild Things Are

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
I'm still not convinced he let the clutch out, especially with him saying that it was the rev match feature that caused the rpms to climb rather then him finishing the shift.

OP needs to update with what exactly happened.
I thought the same. If he let the clutch out there would have been a violent deceleration of the car, similar to hard braking, and possible loss of the rear end.

But there appears to be no movement of the drivers head or body in line with such a deceleration.

It's as if he just backs off and coasts.

Weird...
That's exactly what happened. It was weird. But it's because the engine spun the crankhub immediately and cause a complete loss of compression
Appreciate 1
GPGP16.50

      12-03-2019, 01:02 PM   #165
stefan
Brigadier General
stefan's Avatar
No_Country
1306
Rep
3,615
Posts

Drives: M2 LCI
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2016 BMW X1  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDubBlue View Post
Lmao have you ever shifted a gear before? There's no magical lockout, up/down weight changes. I put my stick in the wrong hole man
Dunno man. Looking at your video it seems like if you slowed down and didn't Vin Diesel the shift lever you wouldn't have money shifted like someone who just got their first manual. (BTW I apologize if this WAS your first manual)

These kinds of mistakes don't happen when people are smoothly shifting with only the effort required to engage a gear, which is pretty low. Instead, it always happens to people who smash the gear lever like it's an SMG.

If you drive properly; smooth, controlled, you'll be faster in the end and avoid a money shift.

In the end I doubt disengaging would have saved you because the electronics in the revmatch probably already blasted the motor into overrev or something.
__________________
///M Power

Last edited by stefan; 12-03-2019 at 01:14 PM..
Appreciate 1
      12-03-2019, 02:26 PM   #166
chris719
Colonel
1986
Rep
2,628
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Dunno man. Looking at your video it seems like if you slowed down and didn't Vin Diesel the shift lever you wouldn't have money shifted like someone who just got their first manual. (BTW I apologize if this WAS your first manual)

These kinds of mistakes don't happen when people are smoothly shifting with only the effort required to engage a gear, which is pretty low. Instead, it always happens to people who smash the gear lever like it's an SMG.

If you drive properly; smooth, controlled, you'll be faster in the end and avoid a money shift.

In the end I doubt disengaging would have saved you because the electronics in the revmatch probably already blasted the motor into overrev or something.
It is impossible for rev match to overrev the engine.
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2019, 02:44 PM   #167
Conissah
Captain
Conissah's Avatar
646
Rep
606
Posts

Drives: 2020 BMW M2C
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
It is impossible for rev match to overrev the engine.
In a previous post he said #badtune and #notstock, so if we assuming he is being serious, then a faulty tune could have (potentially??) shot the RPM to the moon to try and rev-match a downshift at redline? Idk how exactly a tune would do that, but I guess it's possible.
Appreciate 1
      12-04-2019, 03:09 AM   #168
chris719
Colonel
1986
Rep
2,628
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conissah View Post
In a previous post he said #badtune and #notstock, so if we assuming he is being serious, then a faulty tune could have (potentially??) shot the RPM to the moon to try and rev-match a downshift at redline? Idk how exactly a tune would do that, but I guess it's possible.
Never heard of such a thing. BM3 and others leave the rev limiter intact unless the tuner has purposely increased the value.
Appreciate 1
      12-04-2019, 01:51 PM   #169
SkyDubBlue
Custom User Title?
Germany
37
Rep
11
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Competition
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Where the Wild Things Are

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDubBlue View Post
Lmao have you ever shifted a gear before? There's no magical lockout, up/down weight changes. I put my stick in the wrong hole man
Dunno man. Looking at your video it seems like if you slowed down and didn't Vin Diesel the shift lever you wouldn't have money shifted like someone who just got their first manual. (BTW I apologize if this WAS your first manual)

These kinds of mistakes don't happen when people are smoothly shifting with only the effort required to engage a gear, which is pretty low. Instead, it always happens to people who smash the gear lever like it's an SMG.

If you drive properly; smooth, controlled, you'll be faster in the end and avoid a money shift.

In the end I doubt disengaging would have saved you because the electronics in the revmatch probably already blasted the motor into overrev or something.
I definitely don't smash gears constantly. I had just gotten out of a very long construction zone, was only 30 mins away from picking a new set of wheels for Bimmerfest Europe, and drove patiently up to the unrestricted section on the Autobahn.

As it was obviously being recorded, I was trying to just get a good hard pull after getting a nice clear road ahead of me. Just a bad (and excited) shift from 3rd, 4th and unfortunately back to 3rd instead of 5th and 6. Definitely not trying to downshift at a high RPM.

Was Stage 2 tune from Bootmod3 and running a JB4 for a boost controller, as it was nearly undrivable before I adjusted the boost to a progressive setting.


Below's a video of what my engine looked like after.. lol
Appreciate 3
cptobvious2011.50
smknjoe22.50
ND40oz215.50

      12-10-2019, 11:39 AM   #170
ND40oz
Major
ND40oz's Avatar
216
Rep
1,034
Posts

Drives: 09 135i
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Denver/Frankfurt

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDubBlue View Post
Please just read my post on insta. @M2_skyblue
Didn't clutch out. Engine took a shit immediately. No wheel spin or lock.
Thanks for confirming, that's the impression I got initially from your IG post which is why I initially wrote that.

Glad you got it all back together now.
__________________
19 Mini Cooper S Countryman ALL4 6MT
18 BMW X3 M40i
17 Volvo XC90 T6 Inscription P*
Appreciate 0
      12-10-2019, 06:54 PM   #171
chris719
Colonel
1986
Rep
2,628
Posts

Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDubBlue View Post
I definitely don't smash gears constantly. I had just gotten out of a very long construction zone, was only 30 mins away from picking a new set of wheels for Bimmerfest Europe, and drove patiently up to the unrestricted section on the Autobahn.

As it was obviously being recorded, I was trying to just get a good hard pull after getting a nice clear road ahead of me. Just a bad (and excited) shift from 3rd, 4th and unfortunately back to 3rd instead of 5th and 6. Definitely not trying to downshift at a high RPM.

Was Stage 2 tune from Bootmod3 and running a JB4 for a boost controller, as it was nearly undrivable before I adjusted the boost to a progressive setting.


Below's a video of what my engine looked like after.. lol
Wait... if you didn't let the clutch out, you didn't money shift. Shifting into the wrong gear and triggering rev match to hit the limiter is not something that should harm the car in any way. So, was the tune the reason it wasn't covered under warranty?
Appreciate 4
Moflow511.00
smknjoe22.50
Poochie3680.50

      12-11-2019, 01:57 AM   #172
doughboy
Major General
doughboy's Avatar
United Kingdom
847
Rep
7,952
Posts

Drives: 2019 M2 Comp 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK

iTrader: (2)

My thoughts exactly...
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:49 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST