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      09-17-2019, 03:44 PM   #23
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I'm in MD where we don't really get a lot of snow. Will I survive if I put winter tires on the OEM staggered setup?
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      09-17-2019, 08:30 PM   #24
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I'm in MD where we don't really get a lot of snow. Will I survive if I put winter tires on the OEM staggered setup?
I ran a set of 265/35r19 Bridgestone blizzak LM60s on my OEM wheels last winter in Michigan and had zero issues. Obviously you'll want to avoid deep snow, but the M2 held its own just fine.
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      10-02-2019, 01:16 AM   #25
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Snow tire > Winter tire.
^^
This guy winters.

"Performance winter" == I want to be able to take it out in light snow, but if there's a real blizzard, I get in my G wagen / some other AWD beast thing

snow / ice tire == I actually need to drive this car in snow and ice, I have no second car

I have Michelin XIce3 only because I couldn't easily get my hands on Nokian Hakka R2s in the time window I had before winter hit. (Xice3 are stocked by TireRack so easy)

I've mentioned this elsewhere on this subforum, but a year ago we had a huge storm not long after Christmas, probably a foot or more of snow and plows couldn't keep up (plus holidays). I drove across town, including freeway, through all sorts of mess. No problems. Watched a Honda Civic get stuck in snow at a traffic light turning left. So much snow that you couldn't even begin to see lane lines or anything, he was kind of cheating to center even though I think it's only a 2-lane street. He was stuck partway into the intersection; I was able to turn right at the same light and get around him without any trouble.

One sketchy time when I hit black ice on an overpass on the freeway - first time I've ever actually experienced the whole "bridge freezes first" thing, there were cars slid off the highway all over the place. I got a little squirrelly but I just gently came off throttle and slowed, and then applied some brake once I quelled the momentum from the back end (it was a banked turn overpass). That was the one time I wished I had studded tires.

So yeah, there are really two schools of thought with "winter tires."
You either want something that is more flexible (i.e. doesn't turn hard like a hockey puck when cold) than a summer tire but is still mostly dry-performance-focused, or you want something that actually deals with deep snow and ice.

It really comes down to whether you have other cars to drive, or if you know what lake effect snow is... Without real snowfall amounts, the "performance winter" stuff makes sense.
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      10-02-2019, 01:18 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2PUTT View Post
i picked my car up in Jan 2019. swapped the MPSS with Pirelli SottoZero - 255 square set up. was able to drive the car 400 miles in a wintery mix. we had a mild winter. i probably will not even consider using it in deep snow. i have the option to work from home which makes it easier. another choice would be to rent an AWD vehicle if a chance of heavy snow is expected.

Pirelli SottoZero are also garbage winter tires... put on better rubber and it should be OK.
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      10-03-2019, 12:34 AM   #27
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Pirelli SottoZero are also garbage winter tires... put on better rubber and it should be OK.
i have a 3rd car now. M2C will probably hibernate this winter. i'll take it out on dry days.

i have the same winters on my SQ5. they performed very well.
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      10-03-2019, 07:52 AM   #28
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
Pirelli SottoZero are also garbage winter tires... put on better rubber and it should be OK.
i have a 3rd car now. M2C will probably hibernate this winter. i'll take it out on dry days.

i have the same winters on my SQ5. they performed very well.
I think he meant to say Pzerros on rwd are garbage. I agree.

I have them on our Maser and it's fine with AWD but I never used them on my M3s nor would I on my current M2c.
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      10-10-2019, 10:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Michelin PA4 winter tires are the way to go. I went with a square set on 18" wheels. 245/40-18 all around. Wonderful winter traction in my 17' M2. I've even done ice racing with this setup.
What wheels did you get?

Last edited by mscdman; 10-10-2019 at 10:52 PM..
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      10-11-2019, 07:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Michelin PA4 winter tires are the way to go. I went with a square set on 18" wheels. 245/40-18 all around. Wonderful winter traction in my 17' M2. I've even done ice racing with this setup.
What wheels did you get?
For winter use on my '17 M2 I got a square setup with 18X9 RIAL P10 BLK PAINT wheels.
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      10-17-2019, 03:09 PM   #31
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I plan to drive my M2 as my DD this winter on Hakka 8 235/40/R18 square. It's much narrower than stock at the rear so it's better for traction in snowy/slushy conditions at the expense of better grip in dry weather.
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      10-17-2019, 08:38 PM   #32
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PA4s worked fine driving across all of Canada in January. I used them all winter here in NB where we see some of the most snowfall in Canada.
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      11-03-2019, 11:24 AM   #33
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I recently bought a 2017 M2 (dark grey) and am looking to buy a winter setup for it. Has anyone used the MSW TYPE 73?

https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Whee...7&autoModClar=
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      11-03-2019, 03:19 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokki View Post
PA4s worked fine driving across all of Canada in January. I used them all winter here in NB where we see some of the most snowfall in Canada.
The PA4 tire reviews are very scattered. I'd love to get them here in suburbs of NY but I need to drive 40 miles a day and I'm concerned. They do plow where i am but for sure I've had to drive home during storms as the plows are out but roads not cleared yet. NY is also very hilly so I wondered if people in snowy regions who say the PA4s are fine live in flat areas.

I've had Nokian R2's on my M3 and they were unstoppable in snow and ice. Never a concern. But in the dry, my traction light flashed constantly under any throttle at all. Very frustrating not being able to accelerate at even a moderate pace.

Some reviews say the PA4s are fine but others say stay away if you get constant snow. Can you tell me more about your commute and flat versus hilly driving?

Otherwise I am leaning going with a studless tire again, probably the Viking 7.
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      11-03-2019, 07:13 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post

I've had Nokian R2's on my M3 and they were unstoppable in snow and ice. Never a concern. But in the dry, my traction light flashed constantly under any throttle at all. Very frustrating not being able to accelerate at even a moderate pace.

Some reviews say the PA4s are fine but others say stay away if you get constant snow. Can you tell me more about your commute and flat versus hilly driving?
Had PA4's on my 991.1 and 991.2 and they were great in cold/dry but crap in snow, especially on inclines. Had the Hakka's on my 1M (of all cars) and they were incredible, before that I had Dunlop winter sport and they were total crap in snow.

Now have X-ice xi3 square in the M2, we'll see this winter...

Last edited by 1mm2; 11-03-2019 at 09:41 PM..
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      11-03-2019, 09:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1mm2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post

I've had Nokian R2's on my M3 and they were unstoppable in snow and ice. Never a concern. But in the dry, my traction light flashed constantly under any throttle at all. Very frustrating not being able to accelerate at even a moderate pace.

Some reviews say the PA4s are fine but others say stay away if you get constant snow. Can you tell me more about your commute and flat versus hilly driving?
Had PA4's on my 991.1 and 991.2 and they were great in cold/dry but crap in snow, especially on inclines. Had the Hakka's on my 1M (of all cars) and they were incredible, before that I had Dunpol winter sport and they were total crap in snow.

Now have X-ice xi3 square in the M2, we'll see this winter...
Very useful. Thank you.
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      11-06-2019, 01:25 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
The PA4 tire reviews are very scattered. I'd love to get them here in suburbs of NY but I need to drive 40 miles a day and I'm concerned. They do plow where i am but for sure I've had to drive home during storms as the plows are out but roads not cleared yet. NY is also very hilly so I wondered if people in snowy regions who say the PA4s are fine live in flat areas.

I've had Nokian R2's on my M3 and they were unstoppable in snow and ice. Never a concern. But in the dry, my traction light flashed constantly under any throttle at all. Very frustrating not being able to accelerate at even a moderate pace.

Some reviews say the PA4s are fine but others say stay away if you get constant snow. Can you tell me more about your commute and flat versus hilly driving?

Otherwise I am leaning going with a studless tire again, probably the Viking 7.
I would say my area is moderately hilly, but not severely. Maybe they just exceeded my expectation because I was expecting the M2C to be undrivable in winter with any tires. I certainly did have my fair share of trouble, getting stuck in very deep snow a couple of times, but that was mostly my fault. If you are a seasoned winter driver, I think the PA4s will work absolutely fine. They did for me.



Just an idea of how much snow we can get overnight here.
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      11-06-2019, 10:06 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokki View Post
PA4s worked fine driving across all of Canada in January. I used them all winter here in NB where we see some of the most snowfall in Canada.
The PA4 tire reviews are very scattered. I'd love to get them here in suburbs of NY but I need to drive 40 miles a day and I'm concerned. They do plow where i am but for sure I've had to drive home during storms as the plows are out but roads not cleared yet. NY is also very hilly so I wondered if people in snowy regions who say the PA4s are fine live in flat areas.

I've had Nokian R2's on my M3 and they were unstoppable in snow and ice. Never a concern. But in the dry, my traction light flashed constantly under any throttle at all. Very frustrating not being able to accelerate at even a moderate pace.

Some reviews say the PA4s are fine but others say stay away if you get constant snow. Can you tell me more about your commute and flat versus hilly driving?

Otherwise I am leaning going with a studless tire again, probably the Viking 7.
Where are you in NY? I'm in WESTCHESTER county NY and my commute is from northern Westchester to White Plains. I have a long uphill trek when I enter I684 north from WP to home and I have zero issues going uphill. As long as I have enough ground clearance I'm great. Last November's freak 7" snowstorm was easy with the PA4s! While many coworkers had 4-5 hour longer than usual commutes home while my commute was only 50 minutes compared to 24 minutes normally. I dodged stuck tractor trailers, stuck front wheel drive cars and everyone else running performance tires on the long uphill slog home. PA4s work well for me in winter.
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      11-07-2019, 08:36 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokki View Post
PA4s worked fine driving across all of Canada in January. I used them all winter here in NB where we see some of the most snowfall in Canada.
The PA4 tire reviews are very scattered. I'd love to get them here in suburbs of NY but I need to drive 40 miles a day and I'm concerned. They do plow where i am but for sure I've had to drive home during storms as the plows are out but roads not cleared yet. NY is also very hilly so I wondered if people in snowy regions who say the PA4s are fine live in flat areas.

I've had Nokian R2's on my M3 and they were unstoppable in snow and ice. Never a concern. But in the dry, my traction light flashed constantly under any throttle at all. Very frustrating not being able to accelerate at even a moderate pace.

Some reviews say the PA4s are fine but others say stay away if you get constant snow. Can you tell me more about your commute and flat versus hilly driving?

Otherwise I am leaning going with a studless tire again, probably the Viking 7.
Where are you in NY? I'm in WESTCHESTER county NY and my commute is from northern Westchester to White Plains. I have a long uphill trek when I enter I684 north from WP to home and I have zero issues going uphill. As long as I have enough ground clearance I'm great. Last November's freak 7" snowstorm was easy with the PA4s! While many coworkers had 4-5 hour longer than usual commutes home while my commute was only 50 minutes compared to 24 minutes normally. I dodged stuck tractor trailers, stuck front wheel drive cars and everyone else running performance tires on the long uphill slog home. PA4s work well for me in winter.
I'm just over the Putnam border but drive into Westchester each morning to take the Metro North into the city. The highways are typically pretty good except if you happen to get on during a storm and the plows haven't had a chance to come by. Have you had to get up and real hills from a stop? If your in Northeastern Westchester, the terrain is quite similar to mine.

Glad to hear that your commute on 684 was not a problem. I'm trying to picture the hill from 287 to 684 but I'm drawing a blank.
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      11-08-2019, 05:54 PM   #40
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i just found out the the Pirelli Sottozero 3 comes with 275/35/19. i will pair those up with my 255/35/19 fronts mounted on the stock 788s. now i have an extra set of 255/35/19 (with only 2000 miles)...anyone want them for $300? you can pair them with a new set of 275s which you can order from TR. send me PM.
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      11-08-2019, 06:28 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokki View Post
PA4s worked fine driving across all of Canada in January. I used them all winter here in NB where we see some of the most snowfall in Canada.
The PA4 tire reviews are very scattered. I'd love to get them here in suburbs of NY but I need to drive 40 miles a day and I'm concerned. They do plow where i am but for sure I've had to drive home during storms as the plows are out but roads not cleared yet. NY is also very hilly so I wondered if people in snowy regions who say the PA4s are fine live in flat areas.

I've had Nokian R2's on my M3 and they were unstoppable in snow and ice. Never a concern. But in the dry, my traction light flashed constantly under any throttle at all. Very frustrating not being able to accelerate at even a moderate pace.

Some reviews say the PA4s are fine but others say stay away if you get constant snow. Can you tell me more about your commute and flat versus hilly driving?

Otherwise I am leaning going with a studless tire again, probably the Viking 7.
Where are you in NY? I'm in WESTCHESTER county NY and my commute is from northern Westchester to White Plains. I have a long uphill trek when I enter I684 north from WP to home and I have zero issues going uphill. As long as I have enough ground clearance I'm great. Last November's freak 7" snowstorm was easy with the PA4s! While many coworkers had 4-5 hour longer than usual commutes home while my commute was only 50 minutes compared to 24 minutes normally. I dodged stuck tractor trailers, stuck front wheel drive cars and everyone else running performance tires on the long uphill slog home. PA4s work well for me in winter.
I'm just over the Putnam border but drive into Westchester each morning to take the Metro North into the city. The highways are typically pretty good except if you happen to get on during a storm and the plows haven't had a chance to come by. Have you had to get up and real hills from a stop? If your in Northeastern Westchester, the terrain is quite similar to mine.

Glad to hear that your commute on 684 was not a problem. I'm trying to picture the hill from 287 to 684 but I'm drawing a blank.
It is a long uphill slog all the way up to exit 2 near the airport. Everyone and I mean everyone with all season tires gets stuck on that uphill, but it is no problem at all with the PA4s. I will give you one more example - my wife's all wheel drive SUV with Michelin all season pilot sport A/S 3s felt out of control and nearly put me in a ditch near our home coming onto route 202 in Somers. My M2 with PA4s feels so much more in control than her SUV in winter conditions. Plus, in our area, the snow does not cover the roads for weeks on end. I could not stand using a regular snow tire for the 95% of the time when roads are not snow covered. As I said earlier, traction with these tires is not an issue. Ground clearance is the only real issue.
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      11-08-2019, 09:47 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokki View Post
PA4s worked fine driving across all of Canada in January. I used them all winter here in NB where we see some of the most snowfall in Canada.
The PA4 tire reviews are very scattered. I'd love to get them here in suburbs of NY but I need to drive 40 miles a day and I'm concerned. They do plow where i am but for sure I've had to drive home during storms as the plows are out but roads not cleared yet. NY is also very hilly so I wondered if people in snowy regions who say the PA4s are fine live in flat areas.

I've had Nokian R2's on my M3 and they were unstoppable in snow and ice. Never a concern. But in the dry, my traction light flashed constantly under any throttle at all. Very frustrating not being able to accelerate at even a moderate pace.

Some reviews say the PA4s are fine but others say stay away if you get constant snow. Can you tell me more about your commute and flat versus hilly driving?

Otherwise I am leaning going with a studless tire again, probably the Viking 7.
Where are you in NY? I'm in WESTCHESTER county NY and my commute is from northern Westchester to White Plains. I have a long uphill trek when I enter I684 north from WP to home and I have zero issues going uphill. As long as I have enough ground clearance I'm great. Last November's freak 7" snowstorm was easy with the PA4s! While many coworkers had 4-5 hour longer than usual commutes home while my commute was only 50 minutes compared to 24 minutes normally. I dodged stuck tractor trailers, stuck front wheel drive cars and everyone else running performance tires on the long uphill slog home. PA4s work well for me in winter.
I'm just over the Putnam border but drive into Westchester each morning to take the Metro North into the city. The highways are typically pretty good except if you happen to get on during a storm and the plows haven't had a chance to come by. Have you had to get up and real hills from a stop? If your in Northeastern Westchester, the terrain is quite similar to mine.

Glad to hear that your commute on 684 was not a problem. I'm trying to picture the hill from 287 to 684 but I'm drawing a blank.
It is a long uphill slog all the way up to exit 2 near the airport. Everyone and I mean everyone with all season tires gets stuck on that uphill, but it is no problem at all with the PA4s. I will give you one more example - my wife's all wheel drive SUV with Michelin all season pilot sport A/S 3s felt out of control and nearly put me in a ditch near our home coming onto route 202 in Somers. My M2 with PA4s feels so much more in control than her SUV in winter conditions. Plus, in our area, the snow does not cover the roads for weeks on end. I could not stand using a regular snow tire for the 95% of the time when roads are not snow covered. As I said earlier, traction with these tires is not an issue. Ground clearance is the only real issue.
This is good info. I'm leaning towards the PA4s as this is the most relevant commute to mine. I just hated driving in the dry on the Nokians and not because of handling. Just driving in a straight line and any throttle cut power. It put a damper on driving for 4 months every year.
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      11-08-2019, 10:34 PM   #43
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Just put my Sottozero Serie 2's on. In 265/35 front and 285/35 rear. It's crazy how much taller a tire they are than the 255/275 summer setup I was running. I can only squeeze 1 finger in the rear fender gap now. I'm lowered on KW V3's, 2 clicks stiffer than factory settings btw. And I'm at the height settings dinan recommends for their lowering springs. Rears also stick out a bit from the fender. Look like they'll rub, but so far haven't. Fronts turn lock to lock with no rubbing and are still inside the fender, but I think that's because of the factory camber. I have 5mm spacers I might try in the front someday.

It hasn't snowed yet, but it's been in the mid 20s Fahrenheit and my summer tires would spin in 3rd gear rolling into ~25% throttle. So far I haven't been able to get the winter rears to spin at all. And I've pushed it a lot harder than I have in a while. I'm sure I can get them to spin if I try harder, but I'm still getting used to the tires. I'm FBO BM3 Stg2 too.

Forecast doesn't predict snow at all for the rest of the month, but I'm excited to try them in the snow. I feel it's gonna be like learning the car all over again and I'm gonna push it a little harder than I should. But hey, that's what empty parking lots are for.
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      11-29-2019, 09:04 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich8566 View Post
Michelin PA4 winter tires are the way to go. I went with a square set on 18" wheels. 245/40-18 all around. Wonderful winter traction in my 17' M2. I've even done ice racing with this setup.
Hi, can you tell me the rims width and offset?
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