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      01-22-2019, 03:23 PM   #23
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I went from a 2014 cayman s to a 2015 C7 to a 2016 cayman S and am now in an m240i

I would take the m240i over the C7 any day
the C7 has looks sound higher handling limits and torque over the m240i
but as a road car the m240i is simply more accessible everyday fun in a refined package
I suspect you will end up feeling even more so about your M2
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      01-22-2019, 05:03 PM   #24
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I already am feeling more confident driving the M2 around vs the Vette.

The Grandsport doesn't have the power the Z06 has, but at 460 hp/torque, it's still 100 more than the M2 and a couple hundred pounds lighter. I could never use all of that on the street. Shoot, I'm having to monitor myself in the M!

But I feel more involved driving this car. Lots of shifting, etc. And now that I have the infotainment figured out a little more, it's pretty dang enjoyable!

Oh! And I don't have to preplan my routes based in parking lot angles, etc. So that's nice... Lol
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      01-22-2019, 09:05 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by SConn View Post
I already am feeling more confident driving the M2 around vs the Vette.

The Grandsport doesn't have the power the Z06 has, but at 460 hp/torque, it's still 100 more than the M2 and a couple hundred pounds lighter. I could never use all of that on the street. Shoot, I'm having to monitor myself in the M!

But I feel more involved driving this car. Lots of shifting, etc. And now that I have the infotainment figured out a little more, it's pretty dang enjoyable!

Oh! And I don't have to preplan my routes based in parking lot angles, etc. So that's nice... Lol
How is the ride quality and steering in comparison? Does it feel bigger than the C7?
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      01-22-2019, 11:14 PM   #26
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How is the ride quality and steering in comparison? Does it feel bigger than the C7?
Actually, the ride quality of the GS was surprisingly good. I had the mag ride and also added the DSC module which improved the ride even more. So that really wasn't a complaint of mine at all. I especially loved how planted it was... All... The.. Time.

Steering comparison is a bit trickier. They both stiffen up pretty good in sport mode. The Vette's touring setting was pretty soft. I drove in sport pretty much the entire time. There are 5 driving modes total. But once you select it, it stays until you change it. I'd say I probably would give this one to the Vette.

As to the size, I actually feel like the M2 feels smaller and more tossable. For one, the hood on the GS was so long and super super wide, it gives the illusion of a bigger car. Tight turns were actually a little scary in cool weather due to the extreme wheel hop. But that has to do with the wide tires. Ackerman at its best. I had to really be careful when turning into tight spots for fear of bumping into something just from the wheel hop.

They are pretty much the exact same length. Approx 176", but ya, I'd say the Vette felt larger to me, but at the same time, felt lighter.
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      01-23-2019, 08:30 AM   #27
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It wasn't necessarily the old man with gold chains stigma that bothered me about the Vette. The car just looked like it should be on the track... All the time. The red color didn't help things.
That is a really sexy looking Corvette !!!!
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      01-23-2019, 08:46 AM   #28
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That is a really sexy looking Corvette !!!!
Thank you Corinne! Hence the reason I struggled so much trading her

It's funny, that poor car is cursed by BMW's. I bought it from a BMW dealer about 200 miles away who had taken it on trade for an M6. A guy bought it for his wife who never drove it (1800 miles in 1 year and in that was about 500 miles of just driving it to and from the original dealer and then BMW dealer as he lived in a town just past me).

Then after 5 months and 1100 miles, I trade it for an M2. Back to BMW she goes Our finance guy was telling us that at one point they had 5 Vettes in on trade! Thought that was interesting.
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      01-24-2019, 07:24 AM   #29
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Wahat is up with a 2s dead spot when you shift gears. 2s for the power to come back when you shift at 6500 rpm is too long in my opinion.
It's not 2 seconds, but I did notice a ... not a lag, but a pause, in throttle response when driving at high RPMs. Nice to know it's not just me. I am hesitant to mention it to the dealer because a) they can't seem to fix anything without 3 repeat visits and b) the idea of the mechanic (probably a 25 yr old who just learned to use a clutch last week) driving around town at WOT trying to duplicate my complaint does not thrill me.

digress: when I have my car in for service, the car shuttle guy has to run and find the old lady (my words) to go fetch my car since he still hasn't been trained on using that extra pedal on the left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
How is the ride quality and steering in comparison?
I'll say, if I may, that driving the Corvette at the limit is not as communicative as the M2. Even back when they used hydraulic steering, the feedback from the front wheels wasn't as good as with most BMWs. The Corvette is faster, no question there, but you really have to drive with your butt more than your hands to know what the car is doing.

Natch the hydraulic steering BMWs were much better than the electrics. Nothing matches Porsche though (electric or hydraulic).

The longer wheelbase of the Corvette gives a less bouncy ride. A bit more road noise though.
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      01-24-2019, 10:14 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvMyE92 View Post
It's not 2 seconds, but I did notice a ... not a lag, but a pause, in throttle response when driving at high RPMs. Nice to know it's not just me. I am hesitant to mention it to the dealer because a) they can't seem to fix anything without 3 repeat visits and b) the idea of the mechanic (probably a 25 yr old who just learned to use a clutch last week) driving around town at WOT trying to duplicate my complaint does not thrill me.

digress: when I have my car in for service, the car shuttle guy has to run and find the old lady (my words) to go fetch my car since he still hasn't been trained on using that extra pedal on the left.



I'll say, if I may, that driving the Corvette at the limit is not as communicative as the M2. Even back when they used hydraulic steering, the feedback from the front wheels wasn't as good as with most BMWs. The Corvette is faster, no question there, but you really have to drive with your butt more than your hands to know what the car is doing.

Natch the hydraulic steering BMWs were much better than the electrics. Nothing matches Porsche though (electric or hydraulic).

The longer wheelbase of the Corvette gives a less bouncy ride. A bit more road noise though.
Are you guys referring to the Vette or the M as to the 2 second lag? And I assume if it's the M, you're referring to the DCT?

The auto Vette has a delayed throttle response as well. A forum member has tracked it down to how the throttle body is designed. It has a resistance to it when you step on the gas. He believes it has to do with improved mpg, but it feels very heavy.
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      01-24-2019, 12:15 PM   #31
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It it the M in 6mt I am referring to. If I drive like a reasonable human being (lift throttle, clutch in, shift, clutch out). The power takes its sweeet time to come back. Randy Pobst talks about it during his Motor Trend review of the M2 also.

The only way so far I found to avoid it is not lifting throttle, or at least not lifting all the way and shifting. But it’s really annoying and the alternative wai isnot good for the longevity of the clutch.
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      01-24-2019, 08:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
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It it the M in 6mt I am referring to. If I drive like a reasonable human being (lift throttle, clutch in, shift, clutch out). The power takes its sweeet time to come back. Randy Pobst talks about it during his Motor Trend review of the M2 also.

The only way so far I found to avoid it is not lifting throttle, or at least not lifting all the way and shifting. But it’s really annoying and the alternative wai isnot good for the longevity of the clutch.
Ok I can see that. I've had to adjust a bit for that, otherwise, my shift (especially from 1-2) gets jerky. I started giving gas earlier to keep the rpm's from dropping so much. I haven't (and probably won't) try keeping my foot on the gas while shifting, but I can see how that'd help.

Thanks for the clarification!
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      01-24-2019, 08:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SConn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
It it the M in 6mt I am referring to. If I drive like a reasonable human being (lift throttle, clutch in, shift, clutch out). The power takes its sweeet time to come back. Randy Pobst talks about it during his Motor Trend review of the M2 also.

The only way so far I found to avoid it is not lifting throttle, or at least not lifting all the way and shifting. But it's really annoying and the alternative wai isnot good for the longevity of the clutch.
Ok I can see that. I've had to adjust a bit for that, otherwise, my shift (especially from 1-2) gets jerky. I started giving gas earlier to keep the rpm's from dropping so much. I haven't (and probably won't) try keeping my foot on the gas while shifting, but I can see how that'd help.

Thanks for the clarification!
Assuming the M2 is like my M3, it has rev matching on upshifts too. It also drops revs slowly which makes average speed shifting sometimes a bit jerky. Next time you are out on the road, shift into 2nd and watch how slow the revs drop and then you will see it stay at its rev matched rpm for a which waiting for you to release the clutch. It's strange but I've gotten used to it.
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      01-25-2019, 01:14 AM   #34
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Quote:
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Assuming the M2 is like my M3, it has rev matching on upshifts too. It also drops revs slowly which makes average speed shifting sometimes a bit jerky. Next time you are out on the road, shift into 2nd and watch how slow the revs drop and then you will see it stay at its rev matched rpm for a which waiting for you to release the clutch. It's strange but I've gotten used to it.
yes, I noticed that. The only time the engine RPM behaves normally is when you push and hold the Traction Control button for a few seconds and enter DTC off mode. Then RPMs drop really quick, and you can manage rev matching by yourself. Heal-and-toe downshifts are super rewarding in this mode. In all others I always wonder if I got it right or if the car did it for me.

But since we're on topic of the 2s (or so) delay when pulling hard after an upshift... does anyone know what it's caused by? Is it turbo lag? Does the M use any kind of anti-lag strategy in engine management?

I need to try in DTC off mode and see if it's still there.
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      01-25-2019, 05:14 AM   #35
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Assuming the M2 is like my M3, it has rev matching on upshifts too. It also drops revs slowly which makes average speed shifting sometimes a bit jerky. Next time you are out on the road, shift into 2nd and watch how slow the revs drop and then you will see it stay at its rev matched rpm for a which waiting for you to release the clutch. It's strange but I've gotten used to it.
yes, I noticed that. The only time the engine RPM behaves normally is when you push and hold the Traction Control button for a few seconds and enter DTC off mode. Then RPMs drop really quick, and you can manage rev matching by yourself. Heal-and-toe downshifts are super rewarding in this mode. In all others I always wonder if I got it right or if the car did it for me.

But since we're on topic of the 2s (or so) delay when pulling hard after an upshift... does anyone know what it's caused by? Is it turbo lag? Does the M use any kind of anti-lag strategy in engine management?

I need to try in DTC off mode and see if it's still there.
In the M3 forums, it was determined to be a "torque management" programming by BMW to possibly reduce strain on the car. I'll admit that I don't feel it all the time. Sometimes when I am shifting fast, it feels great with a big push right after shifting. Other times I feel a short lag.

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1496317
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      01-25-2019, 06:47 AM   #36
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Just tried it on the Autobahn in DSC off mode, no lag just quick shifts with immediate power. Looks like it is in fact programming
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Last edited by 5.M0NSTER; 01-25-2019 at 07:13 AM..
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      01-25-2019, 09:36 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
But since we're on topic of the 2s (or so) delay when pulling hard after an upshift... does anyone know what it's caused by? Is it turbo lag? Does the M use any kind of anti-lag strategy in engine management?

I need to try in DTC off mode and see if it's still there.
It does it in DTC off, in fact, the only time I really noticed it was when I was on track, and driving at WOT a bit. Normal around town driving-like-a-responsible-adult it isn't an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
In the M3 forums, it was determined to be a "torque management" programming by BMW to possibly reduce strain on the car.
That would make sense. Especially since our M cars don't have that annoying CDV like the non-Ms do (which is why I didn't buy an M240i).

Clarification: the CDV is now built-in to the slave cylinder, which means that you can't take it out.

CDV: Clutch Delay Valve, designed to reduce drivetrain stress
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      01-25-2019, 11:46 AM   #38
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You’re right, tried some more in DSC off on my way home and it happened once. But if I feather the throttle while on clutch and shifting it’s not there. But extra strain on the clutch disk.
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      01-25-2019, 12:42 PM   #39
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You’re right, tried some more in DSC off on my way home and it happened once. But if I feather the throttle while on clutch and shifting it’s not there. But extra strain on the clutch disk.
I think that's why I don't get it on my M3 sometimes when I am shifting fast. I'm probably getting on the gas a bit early.
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      01-25-2019, 01:15 PM   #40
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I think that's why I don't get it on my M3 sometimes when I am shifting fast. I'm probably getting on the gas a bit early.
That makes sense. Driver is essentially overriding the computer this way. Nice thing is you don’t have to be bouncing it off the rev limiter, just higher than the software parameters defined in the code.
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      05-24-2019, 12:04 PM   #41
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....never owned a vette. ...a bit too retro for me......
This 240i is so much fun....better value than M2.....but I can be talked into it!
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      05-24-2019, 03:14 PM   #42
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i sat in a c7 vette...if your use to european interiors...its hard ignore the quality of the c7 interior in comparison.

I think the c8 will probably be the game changer though. If rumors hold true...you can get a v8 cayman for less then the price of a 911, i think that will bring in a lot of different kind of buyers in the vette demographics, especially if the leases are good.
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      05-24-2019, 03:29 PM   #43
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I will go the opposite way when my Ex-Pat assignment in Germany is over. I had a 2014 Mustang GT Track Pack car which I road raced and heavily modified. Then I sold it and moved to Germany and got an M2. And while I appreciate the handling and comforts of the M2 this whole experience made me realize I NEED a V8 in my life. Turbo 6 is kind of dull by comparison. It is not a bad experience, but the instant throttle response and high end of a V8 is irreplaceable in my book.

So when I'm back Stateside and I still need a a rear seat it will be another Mustang. GT350 or GT with PP2. If not then a C7 Grand Sport. C7 is Porsche 911 level lap times for half the price.
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      05-24-2019, 06:08 PM   #44
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I'll admit, after driving the M2 for a bit now, that the turbo lag vs the V8 can get kind of annoying when you need that instant power. But on the other hand, once it spools, it's pretty fun!

I do definitely prefer to be able to see what's around me, which is confidence inspiring. I had to guess in the GS. Also, the front end was so long.

Would I buy another Vette? Possibly. A manual for sure, given the A8 issues. I'm not at all interested in the midengine V8 though. I am excited to see what it's going to look like when it's revealed in July.
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