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      12-06-2019, 02:43 PM   #1
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Getting Ready for Stage 2

Hey everyone,

I picked up BM3 on Black Friday and am pretty excited about that. I am aware that to run Stage 2, I will need a downpipe and intercooler. I also know that most people recommend upgrading the charge pipe. This week I also saw a recommendation to swap plugs to a cooler plug. Is there any other recommended supporting mod or prep that should be done to get the best out of the tune?

Thanks kindly!
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      12-06-2019, 03:53 PM   #2
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Turbo inlet pipe swap and a dry flat panel air filter.
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      12-06-2019, 04:23 PM   #3
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I understand I'm just one person, so take that for what it is... but I ran Stg2 with OEM intercooler and downpipe for a year. Taking multiple logs in various conditions and never saw an issue. Comparing to once I upgraded the intercooler and downpipe, there was no difference in timing or knock.
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      12-06-2019, 05:20 PM   #4
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I plan to step up to Stage 2 eventually....I recently just flashed to Stage 1 91 and loving it. I have downpipe and intercooler so I'm actually ready for Stage 2 but it's a 5'' intercooler instead of a 6.5'' which is recommened for stage 2, however I don't plan to upgrade turbo.

Ironic thing is I still have the stock intake and was wondering is it really necessary to upgrade? If I do, I plan to get the afe dry pro filter and that's it. I don't plan on replacing the whole intake unit.
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      12-06-2019, 06:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D CHOI View Post
I plan to step up to Stage 2 eventually....I recently just flashed to Stage 1 91 and loving it. I have downpipe and intercooler so I'm actually ready for Stage 2 but it's a 5'' intercooler instead of a 6.5'' which is recommened for stage 2, however I don't plan to upgrade turbo.

Ironic thing is I still have the stock intake and was wondering is it really necessary to upgrade? If I do, I plan to get the afe dry pro filter and that's it. I don't plan on replacing the whole intake unit.
Most everything I've read on intakes is they are a waste of money for what you gain, if anything but more noise.
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      12-06-2019, 06:05 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D CHOI View Post
I plan to step up to Stage 2 eventually....I recently just flashed to Stage 1 91 and loving it. I have downpipe and intercooler so I'm actually ready for Stage 2 but it's a 5'' intercooler instead of a 6.5'' which is recommened for stage 2, however I don't plan to upgrade turbo.

Ironic thing is I still have the stock intake and was wondering is it really necessary to upgrade? If I do, I plan to get the afe dry pro filter and that's it. I don't plan on replacing the whole intake unit.
The stock intake flows really well. Put the dry panel filter in it and call it a day. Most people change the intake for the noise.
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      12-08-2019, 01:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digimattic View Post
Hey everyone,

I picked up BM3 on Black Friday and am pretty excited about that. I am aware that to run Stage 2, I will need a downpipe and intercooler. I also know that most people recommend upgrading the charge pipe. This week I also saw a recommendation to swap plugs to a cooler plug. Is there any other recommended supporting mod or prep that should be done to get the best out of the tune?

Thanks kindly!
Only thing i would add is an intake or high flow filter. Powerwise, it will be the same but the intake sounds a lot better
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      12-08-2019, 02:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I understand I'm just one person, so take that for what it is... but I ran Stg2 with OEM intercooler and downpipe for a year. Taking multiple logs in various conditions and never saw an issue. Comparing to once I upgraded the intercooler and downpipe, there was no difference in timing or knock.
So no appreciable difference in safety with no IC or DP. Interesting. Did you see an appreciable difference in power once you upgraded the IC and DP?
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      12-08-2019, 07:56 PM   #9
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So no appreciable difference in safety with no IC or DP. Interesting. Did you see an appreciable difference in power once you upgraded the IC and DP?
Now that I think of it, and have more knowledge, my experience could've have been caused by running in Sport+. So traction control could've been cutting power before any timing pull or knock happened. I didn't start driving in DSC Off mode until this past summer, because I was still getting used to the car.
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      12-11-2019, 10:07 AM   #10
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Thanks for the responses everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I understand I'm just one person, so take that for what it is... but I ran Stg2 with OEM intercooler and downpipe for a year. Taking multiple logs in various conditions and never saw an issue. Comparing to once I upgraded the intercooler and downpipe, there was no difference in timing or knock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Now that I think of it, and have more knowledge, my experience could've have been caused by running in Sport+. So traction control could've been cutting power before any timing pull or knock happened. I didn't start driving in DSC Off mode until this past summer, because I was still getting used to the car.
This is good to know, even with your point about running in sport+ mode. I imagine that our conditions in Toronto are largely similar to yours in Pennsylvania. I think I will ultimately do it anyway since I do track the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
Turbo inlet pipe swap and a dry flat panel air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief1richard View Post
Most everything I've read on intakes is they are a waste of money for what you gain, if anything but more noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
The stock intake flows really well. Put the dry panel filter in it and call it a day. Most people change the intake for the noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Only thing i would add is an intake or high flow filter. Powerwise, it will be the same but the intake sounds a lot better
Is the turbo inlet needed even on a stock turbo? The threads I have seen (e.g. here) make it sound like a fairly dubious upgrade, especially for the money.

I feel the same way about filters/intakes. I don't think I've ever seen verifiable performance improvements from a filter on an FI engine and don't want to risk having more dirt into the engine for the sake of a couple HP. I also try to keep the noise "stock-ish" so increased noise not a plus for me.

Thanks again to all the thoughtful responses.
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      12-13-2019, 03:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digimattic View Post
Thanks for the responses everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I understand I'm just one person, so take that for what it is... but I ran Stg2 with OEM intercooler and downpipe for a year. Taking multiple logs in various conditions and never saw an issue. Comparing to once I upgraded the intercooler and downpipe, there was no difference in timing or knock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Now that I think of it, and have more knowledge, my experience could've have been caused by running in Sport+. So traction control could've been cutting power before any timing pull or knock happened. I didn't start driving in DSC Off mode until this past summer, because I was still getting used to the car.
This is good to know, even with your point about running in sport+ mode. I imagine that our conditions in Toronto are largely similar to yours in Pennsylvania. I think I will ultimately do it anyway since I do track the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
Turbo inlet pipe swap and a dry flat panel air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief1richard View Post
Most everything I've read on intakes is they are a waste of money for what you gain, if anything but more noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
The stock intake flows really well. Put the dry panel filter in it and call it a day. Most people change the intake for the noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Only thing i would add is an intake or high flow filter. Powerwise, it will be the same but the intake sounds a lot better
Is the turbo inlet needed even on a stock turbo? The threads I have seen (e.g. here) make it sound like a fairly dubious upgrade, especially for the money.

I feel the same way about filters/intakes. I don't think I've ever seen verifiable performance improvements from a filter on an FI engine and don't want to risk having more dirt into the engine for the sake of a couple HP. I also try to keep the noise "stock-ish" so increased noise not a plus for me.

Thanks again to all the thoughtful responses.
Hi flo Inlet pipe is worthwhile on stock turbo running a tune, as it offsets any loss in throttle response if running a larger/upgraded i/cooler.

On std tune, better flow @ WOT helps m2 n55 hold more boost for longer in the upper rev range and demands on the turbo is less (lower WGDC to achieve same boost target) which helps longevity/reliability.
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      12-13-2019, 04:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Hi flo Inlet pipe is worthwhile on stock turbo running a tune, as it offsets any loss in throttle response if running a larger/upgraded i/cooler.

On std tune, better flow @ WOT helps m2 n55 hold more boost for longer in the upper rev range and demands on the turbo is less (lower WGDC to achieve same boost target) which helps longevity/reliability.
What's the downside? Why doesn't it come that way stock?
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      12-14-2019, 04:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Hi flo Inlet pipe is worthwhile on stock turbo running a tune, as it offsets any loss in throttle response if running a larger/upgraded i/cooler.

On std tune, better flow @ WOT helps m2 n55 hold more boost for longer in the upper rev range and demands on the turbo is less (lower WGDC to achieve same boost target) which helps longevity/reliability.
What's the downside? Why doesn't it come that way stock?
Built to a budget - stock inlet is same part no as early f series n55 PWG car with smaller turbo
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      12-15-2019, 12:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I understand I'm just one person, so take that for what it is... but I ran Stg2 with OEM intercooler and downpipe for a year. Taking multiple logs in various conditions and never saw an issue. Comparing to once I upgraded the intercooler and downpipe, there was no difference in timing or knock.
But I bet it felt much better fbo'd.

I was on stage 1 and then upgraded the downpipe - it made a very noticeable difference in engine response.

Now on stage 2 and loving it! 😀
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      12-15-2019, 12:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digimattic View Post
Thanks for the responses everyone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
I understand I'm just one person, so take that for what it is... but I ran Stg2 with OEM intercooler and downpipe for a year. Taking multiple logs in various conditions and never saw an issue. Comparing to once I upgraded the intercooler and downpipe, there was no difference in timing or knock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
Now that I think of it, and have more knowledge, my experience could've have been caused by running in Sport+. So traction control could've been cutting power before any timing pull or knock happened. I didn't start driving in DSC Off mode until this past summer, because I was still getting used to the car.
This is good to know, even with your point about running in sport+ mode. I imagine that our conditions in Toronto are largely similar to yours in Pennsylvania. I think I will ultimately do it anyway since I do track the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
Turbo inlet pipe swap and a dry flat panel air filter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief1richard View Post
Most everything I've read on intakes is they are a waste of money for what you gain, if anything but more noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
The stock intake flows really well. Put the dry panel filter in it and call it a day. Most people change the intake for the noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Only thing i would add is an intake or high flow filter. Powerwise, it will be the same but the intake sounds a lot better
Is the turbo inlet needed even on a stock turbo? The threads I have seen (e.g. here) make it sound like a fairly dubious upgrade, especially for the money.

I feel the same way about filters/intakes. I don't think I've ever seen verifiable performance improvements from a filter on an FI engine and don't want to risk having more dirt into the engine for the sake of a couple HP. I also try to keep the noise "stock-ish" so increased noise not a plus for me.

Thanks again to all the thoughtful responses.
On another thread a guy was running 460 and dynoed with stock vs a drop in filter - absolutely no difference in power. https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1661597

Agree, not worth the risk to the engine just for a bit of noise. Tbh the car is plenty loud enough when running a dp anyway.
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      12-17-2019, 09:27 AM   #16
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Is there some consensus here. It appears that BM Stage 2 on stock equipment works fine. (I do not track my car).

This would be great considering the cost of the mechanical upgrades supposedly needed.
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      12-17-2019, 11:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MZWIE View Post
Is there some consensus here. It appears that BM Stage 2 on stock equipment works fine. (I do not track my car).

This would be great considering the cost of the mechanical upgrades supposedly needed.
You can try, but as your intercooler heats up faster it will retard timing and run less boost.
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      12-19-2019, 01:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MZWIE View Post
Is there some consensus here. It appears that BM Stage 2 on stock equipment works fine. (I do not track my car).

This would be great considering the cost of the mechanical upgrades supposedly needed.
Bm3 is very sensitive to octane and intake temps.

Running stage 1 93 (stock), I had alot of quite large knocks, even on supposedly good fuel, and had to drop to the stage 1 91 map.

MHD have stated in threads that a dp is mandatory for stage 2, but that an intercooler is optional depending on climate, but they have a stage 2+ that needs an intercooler (not sure how this equates to Bm3)

Unless you are living on the Arctic, I would definitely do the intercooler - our cars pull timing from ~115 degrees. On a 3/4/5 gear I was seeing intake temps >120, with an ambient of 55. (stage 1)

Honestly, you'd be insane to run the car at stage 2 without going FBO imo.
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      12-20-2019, 11:13 AM   #19
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Thanks to everyone who has provided their experience. Based on everyone above, my shopping list appears to consist of the following:
  • Wagner Evo II Competition FMIC
  • NGK SILZKBR8D8S spark plugs BMW oem part no 12120039664
  • FTP Charge and boost pipes
  • Pure Turbos turbo inlet pipe

Any issues with the parts listed above? Will everything play nice together?
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      12-20-2019, 11:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
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On another thread a guy was running 460 and dynoed with stock vs a drop in filter - absolutely no difference in power. https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1661597

Agree, not worth the risk to the engine just for a bit of noise. Tbh the car is plenty loud enough when running a dp anyway.
Yeah - this is consistent with every FI car I have owned. To each their own, of course, but I will stay clear of them.
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      12-20-2019, 02:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MZWIE View Post
Is there some consensus here. It appears that BM Stage 2 on stock equipment works fine. (I do not track my car).

This would be great considering the cost of the mechanical upgrades supposedly needed.
there is a reason why PTF have 2 different stage.
Stage 1 is for stock, stage 2 is for FBO

It your car so you can run stage 2 on it if its stock, but the experts recommend that you do not.
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      12-21-2019, 10:54 AM   #22
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I looked in my car at the OEM charge pipe. About half way down it is attached to a hard mount.

I do not see this in any of the pictures of the aftermarket versions. I haven't seen this in any videos of installations either????????
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