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      12-04-2019, 10:38 AM   #1
///AVM
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DCT Neutral Paddle Shift

I recently learned of a fantastic feature with my 718 CGTS PDK. Namely, hitting the paddle shifters simultaneously throws the car into neutral. Great feature at prolonged stops. Simply hit the ‘+’ paddle ad the car shifts into 1st gear.

However, the ‘neutral’ feature does not stop there. You can hit the paddle shifters at any time (any speed) and it will throw the car into neutral. You can hit either the ‘+’ or ‘-‘ paddle and the transmission will automatically find the most appropriate gear. This feature solved a huge frustration for me when using the ‘manual’ PDK feature at low speeds (low gears). . . never tried at high speeds (high gears) in 'manual' PDK mode.

Namely, with a true manual, as you approach low speeds/stops, the tendency is to apply the clutch and effectively put the car in neutral. When using the manual PDK feature I was constantly frustrated as I approached low speeds/stops . . . learning the paddle feature that puts the car in neutral solved my frustration.

Regardless, the PDK recognizes when you are manually shifting in 'automatic' mode, and appears to give you freedom to maintain control until it recognizes you are no longer manually shifting and/or transmission is endangered by inappropriate 'rev matching.' For this reason, I really have no further need to use the 'manual' PDK mode UNLESS I wish to actually use the shifter (as opposed to paddles) - this is rarely, if ever, the case any longer.

Does the M2C DCT have similar feature?

I apologize if this has been discussed previously and eluded my search.

///AVM

Last edited by ///AVM; 12-04-2019 at 11:24 AM..
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      12-04-2019, 11:18 AM   #2
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No, but if in doubt, read here:


https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/at...8;d=1556296522
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      12-04-2019, 11:27 AM   #3
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Scout

You are the live version of the manual. . . if you say 'no' then I am confident my questioned has been answered.

Thank you

///AVM
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      12-04-2019, 12:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thescout13 View Post
Scout

You are the live version of the manual. . . if you say 'no' then I am confident my questioned has been answered.

Thank you

///AVM
Lol thanks. I hate to kill the dream tho, this is a cool feature in the PDK that I wish my wife's F80 had as well. Unfortunately, the F87 has the same affliction.
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      12-04-2019, 04:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Namely, with a true manual, as you approach low speeds/stops, the tendency is to apply the clutch and effectively put the car in neutral. When using the manual PDK feature I was constantly frustrated as I approached low speeds/stops .

///AVM
Hmm. I'm not sure I get what you are saying.

In a manual you dip the clutch to select neutral only as you simultaneously pull to a stop in order that you can then release the clutch pedal while stopped on the brake.

Dipping the clutch whilst in gear is not neutral.

In a manual dipping the clutch and coasting whilst in gear is a bad technique and will fail your driving test in the UK for loss of control of vehicle.

In anycase in a DCT you just pull to a stop in gear and the clutches disengage for you as required to allow you to stop in gear. You can knock the gear selector into neutral if you like and use the handbrake if it's a long wait. Otherwise just stop on the footbrake in D.

A torque convertor auto will just drag the torque convertor, all normal.

Am I missing something?
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      12-04-2019, 07:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Hmm. I'm not sure I get what you are saying.

In a manual you dip the clutch to select neutral only as you simultaneously pull to a stop in order that you can then release the clutch pedal while stopped on the brake.

Dipping the clutch whilst in gear is not neutral.

In a manual dipping the clutch and coasting whilst in gear is a bad technique and will fail your driving test in the UK for loss of control of vehicle.

In anycase in a DCT you just pull to a stop in gear and the clutches disengage for you as required to allow you to stop in gear. You can knock the gear selector into neutral if you like and use the handbrake if it's a long wait. Otherwise just stop on the footbrake in D.

A torque convertor auto will just drag the torque convertor, all normal.

Am I missing something?
Doughboy

I apologize for not being clearer.

I agree with everything you stated. With a manual transmission, as you slow to a stop the clutch is applied, shift into neutral, and release clutch while braking.

I indicated ‘effectively’ putting the car in neutral trying to relate to the ‘manual’ PDK mode – again, poor job on my part trying to explain.

In attempt to be clearer, what I found frustrating about the ‘manual’ PDK mode is the lack of a clutch when coming to a stop; inability to disengage gears or actually get into neutral. Until I was informed that simultaneously hitting both paddles places the transmission in neutral, I felt lost trying to decide when to shift from 2nd -> 1st gear, using either paddles or shifter itself. In fact, as far as I am concerned 1st gear is only for taking off from a stop, so trying to find 1st gear while coming to a stop did not compute and represented a source of frustration.

I hope that this post clears up any confusion my prior post might have caused.

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      12-05-2019, 01:23 AM   #7
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Aah. Understood!

But even in manual mode all DCTs will downshift themselves as revs drop. It won't stall the engine of course.

If you leave in 2nd or 3rd or any gear it will shift down as you slow and usually stop in 2nd then change to 1st and release the clutches when you have foot on brake.

Maybe PDK is different?
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      12-06-2019, 06:49 PM   #8
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From what I have read the PDK equiped car creeps forward with no brake or gas applied- the DCT does NOT. I love this because when youi go off the gas and coast the car slows to the max- With an automatic or PDK car there is a small amount of "creep" gas without the gas pedal. If you go into neutral with the PDK it's better- no gas but no engine braking either.The DCT is best of both- no gas but engine braking. Very often the car in front of me is braking lightly and I do noit need to with the DCT.
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      12-07-2019, 03:23 AM   #9
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Yes BMW M-DCT does not creep. So it can be less smooth pulling away if you are used to a creeping auto or DCT from other manufacturer.

Unless you "tap" the gas from stationary then it will go into "traffic mode" and creep like other DCT's/Autos.

You can even shift up to 2nd while creeping to go a little faster if traffic speed suits.

Last edited by doughboy; 12-07-2019 at 03:48 AM..
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      12-07-2019, 08:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
Aah. Understood!

But even in manual mode all DCTs will downshift themselves as revs drop. It won't stall the engine of course.

If you leave in 2nd or 3rd or any gear it will shift down as you slow and usually stop in 2nd then change to 1st and release the clutches when you have foot on brake.

Maybe PDK is different?
Thank you DB

I only recently was informed the PDK in 'manual' mode behaves similarly. Will NOT upshift automatically, but will downshift automatically.

I recognized the former, and always assumed the same held true for the latter - but never tested it to date.

Not sure why either the BMW or Porsche engineers would set things up this way? Makes sense to have DCT/PDK downshifts automatically, but why would they not do the same with upshifting (e.g., at redline)?

I suspect there is a good reason for which I am unaware.

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      12-07-2019, 08:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff4598 View Post
From what I have read the PDK equiped car creeps forward with no brake or gas applied- the DCT does NOT. I love this because when youi go off the gas and coast the car slows to the max- With an automatic or PDK car there is a small amount of "creep" gas without the gas pedal. If you go into neutral with the PDK it's better- no gas but no engine braking either.The DCT is best of both- no gas but engine braking. Very often the car in front of me is braking lightly and I do noit need to with the DCT.
Thank you for sharing Jeff.

If you apply heavy brake at stop, then release the brake, the PDK will act as you describe for the DCT.

So, as I understand what you describe, the difference between the DCT and PDK is that the PDK requires a hard brake pulse, while the DCT does it automatically when the vehicle comes to a stop.

Then again, what I describe for the PDK is what I know to be true while in 'automatic' mode. Per my above post to Doughboy, I am still figuring out the 'manual' mode nuances.

Please correct me if I am mistaken in my understanding of your comments.

///AVM
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      12-09-2019, 07:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Thank you for sharing Jeff.

If you apply heavy brake at stop, then release the brake, the PDK will act as you describe for the DCT.

So, as I understand what you describe, the difference between the DCT and PDK is that the PDK requires a hard brake pulse, while the DCT does it automatically when the vehicle comes to a stop.

Then again, what I describe for the PDK is what I know to be true while in 'automatic' mode. Per my above post to Doughboy, I am still figuring out the 'manual' mode nuances.

Please correct me if I am mistaken in my understanding of your comments.

///AVM
See I seem to get that in the M DCT and its annoying as hell.

Im used to brake and then when the car is almost at a stop release the brakes so that the nose does not dive down and the stop is smoother.

On a manual car I would have already dipped the clutch and put it in neutral.

BUT with the M DCT sometimes it does not get the message and it seems to go into creep mode from braking jumping the car forward till I step on the brakes firmly making for a very jerky stop.

Anyone else experience this?
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