[O Haiii]

Hey guys,

Discovering that on the M2 we are unable to adjust camber like in other cars. So people are running camber plates to run negative camber for the track.

Question:

Doesn't the camber become negative naturally when you lower the car? Geometrically the axel is fixed so as it slants up when lowering doesnt the top of the wheel tuck in to the fender? That's been the case with other cars i've worked on...and can't grasp why even lowered m2 guys need camber plates to run 2.5-3 degrees of negative camber. Maybe i'm missing something here thanks in advance!

[detroitm2]

Yes, negative camber is increased as you lower the car. But most lowered M2s are less than 1" unless you're going for that "stance" look. It doesn't change the camber enough to make much of a difference. Guys that are looking for 2.5-3 degrees of negative camber or more are still going to need plates.

But ultimately, just measure your camber before and after. If you decide you need more, then front plates are your only option.

[O Haiii]

Originally Posted by detroitm2

Yes, negative camber is increased as you lower the car. But most lowered M2s are less than 1" unless you're going for that "stance" look. It doesn't change the camber enough to make much of a difference. Guys that are looking for 2.5-3 degrees of negative camber or more are still going to need plates.

But ultimately, just measure your camber before and after. If you decide you need more, then front plates are your only option.

Thanks, got it. People forego the rear camber plates i'm assuming? Since most of the tire wear will be in the front anyways?

[detroitm2]

Originally Posted by O Haiii

Thanks, got it. People forego the rear camber plates i'm assuming? Since most of the tire wear will be in the front anyways?

The rears are adjustable. Most (i believe) have not found the need for more.

[M Fifty]

BeePee discovered that BMW make camber correction front suspension components allowing you to add more -ve camber without camber plates - and has fitted them:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1121

[O Haiii]

Can you explain more on this? How come I can't find any more threads on this? I'd assume that if this was a way to not get camber plates people would be all over it...

[M Fifty]

He's definitely mentioned it in several threads, so you'll have to ask BeePee. But I'm guessing there are cheaper ways of getting an extra 0.5 degrees of -ve camber, although the car might be more civilised using his approach.

[mr_lab_rat]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

BeePee discovered that BMW make camber correction front suspension components allowing you to add more -ve camber without camber plates - and has fitted them:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=31_1121

Why would you do that? Those cost nearly $800 for the pair. That's more than some nice adjustable camber plates.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

Why would you do that? Those cost nearly $800 for the pair. That's more than some nice adjustable camber plates.

Adjustable top mounts will add NVH whilst OEM hubs don't and are warranty friendly. Whilst the OEM hubs parts are more 💰they will be cheaper to install - less labour time. Once installed, you could sell on your original hubs to an e92 m3 owner wanting to upgrade to f series blue brembos, to recoup some of the higher parts cost.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by O Haiii

Can you explain more on this? How come I can't find any more threads on this? I'd assume that if this was a way to not get camber plates people would be all over it...

Have a look at my thread below on them


M2 c/w MP coilovers - added front camber using OEM parts
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1480788

[Caduceus]

On MacPherson strut suspension, camber becomes slightly more negative up until the point where the lower control arm becomes horizontal. After that point, further compression actually makes camber become increasingly positive.

See this YouTube video for a beautiful illustration:

This is one of the reasons excessive lowering can be detrimental to handling.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Have a look at my thread below on them


M2 c/w MP coilovers - added front camber using OEM parts
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1480788

I really like this idea, thanks Bee Pee!

[toy4speed]

I like the available option of OEM front knuckles designed to correct alignment variations, much like "crash bolts" in some cars, or slightly adjustable upper strut mounts in other cars. Retains I believe a "stock" classification of the car as it is a manufacturer provided adjustment. On my '18 M2, the front knuckles increased camber to 1.8 deg negative. Was hoping for 2 deg neg, but every car is different. I will also add that I went to GC camber plates afterward, to get approx. 3.5 deg neg camber in front, with plenty of adjustment. As for the install, the camber plates was a relatively easy install, but the knuckles were more difficult and time consuming, mostly due to ball joint separation efforts, and more parts requiring removal. The improvement in front handling with the increase of camber from original to 1.8 deg was noticeable, but not dramatic. Just my experience.

[dr.roro]

Originally Posted by toy4speed

I like the available option of OEM front knuckles designed to correct alignment variations, much like "crash bolts" in some cars, or slightly adjustable upper strut mounts in other cars. Retains I believe a "stock" classification of the car as it is a manufacturer provided adjustment. On my '18 M2, the front knuckles increased camber to 1.8 deg negative. Was hoping for 2 deg neg, but every car is different. I will also add that I went to GC camber plates afterward, to get approx. 3.5 deg neg camber in front, with plenty of adjustment. As for the install, the camber plates was a relatively easy install, but the knuckles were more difficult and time consuming, mostly due to ball joint separation efforts, and more parts requiring removal. The improvement in front handling with the increase of camber from original to 1.8 deg was noticeable, but not dramatic. Just my experience.

How was improvement in handling after adding the GC camber plates? Any significant change in NVH?

[toy4speed]

When I autocrossed with the GC camber plates at 3.5 deg, I had also moved my 18x10 Apex wheels w/ 275/35-18 tires from the rear to the front. The difference in handling with those 2 changes was dramatic. So enjoyable, as the car really should be. Tire wear in front was not as extreme and the turn in, cornering was just great. Compared to stock front alignment, just night/day. I put on the GC plates with the thought that I might switch back and forth with the stock plates, depending on autox club and classing, but I am going to be hard pressed to pull those camber plates out! This was with my home garage alignment too. Getting a quality alignment, I think the handling could be fine tuned more. The NVH was definitely sharper in front. Not any rattling or noise, just a sharper feel to the road, like a fine vibration too. About what you might expect with less pliable insulation to the front springs/suspension. Definitely no knocking, clunking noises. The NVH noise increase is very tolerable and minimal, at least for now.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I really like this idea, thanks Bee Pee!

Latest alignment after a visit to Center Gravity for fast road setup...



-2.25deg negative camber is probably sensible max for a mainly road-biased DD and 5-6 TD's / year.

More info about my M2's visit to & fettling by CG here https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...10&postcount=1