[ptgltw]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

After reading this thread, I think "our beloved" has become the new couch term for the F87CS. It fits, and isn't as creepy as "our precious" would be.

Lol

[Hedoniste]

[Montaver]

Some pretty massive recency bias in this list with CS at 1 and 718 GT4 at 2. Both excellent cars though. If I was picking top German metal of the last 20 years I doubt anything with a Turbo would make the top 5.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by Golden3ye

My CS is more than my mortgage. Must be a car guy!

I see you're in Missouri, so I don't doubt you. I was just there for a wedding. There's a little town called Nevada, you could get 5 acres, a good size house with a pool, and a nice lake on the property for less than $250K. In Western WA, that's like a G63.

[VIERsr]

Where is the 1M? They didn't consider it but put the Up GTI

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

Where is the 1M? They didn't consider it but put the Up GTI

Some people feel the 1M is a deeply flawed car (like Randy Pobst and Johnny Lieberman). Doug DeMuro recently said in his "top 5 BMWs" that the M2C is a much better car than the 1M.

Time will tell how the 1M ages, I've never driven one personally so I can't say.

[mchart]

1M just didn't hold up well, honestly. I think it was a great car at release, but ultimately it was never a full 100% M car. People wanting a car from that generation generally think of the the M3/M5 with their unique engines, really.

[swampfox94]

This list has basically every performance car to drop out of Germany lol

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by mchart

1M just didn't hold up well, honestly. I think it was a great car at release, but ultimately it was never a full 100% M car. People wanting a car from that generation generally think of the the M3/M5 with their unique engines, really.

Chris Harris even said in this article here (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/chr...-harris-bmw-1m) that he felt the e90 was a "felt like a museum piece – quaint and noisy, but slow and mechanically brittle. Age hasn’t been kind to it."

He was one of the biggest supporters of the 1M, but eventually sold it and bought an M2 CS. I'd love to own an 1M for a bit though, just to see for myself.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Chris Harris even said in this article here (https://www.topgear.com/car-news/chr...-harris-bmw-1m) that he felt the e90 was a "felt like a museum piece – quaint and noisy, but slow and mechanically brittle. Age hasn’t been kind to it."

He was one of the biggest supporters of the 1M, but eventually sold it and bought an M2 CS. I'd love to own an 1M for a bit though, just to see for myself.

How do we get Mr. Harris to review the M2cs? His endorsement would speak volumes for this car. His take on cars is typically on the side of driving pleasure, not lap times.

[VCP]

N54, enough said. I felt this way about the OG M2. Good but the N55 kept it from great.

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Some people feel the 1M is a deeply flawed car (like Randy Pobst and Johnny Lieberman). Doug DeMuro recently said in his "top 5 BMWs" that the M2C is a much better car than the 1M.

Time will tell how the 1M ages, I've never driven one personally so I can't say.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by M3R1

How do we get Mr. Harris to review the M2cs? His endorsement would speak volumes for this car. His take on cars is typically on the side of driving pleasure, not lap times.

He reviewed it over a year ago for Top Gear mag, gave it a lukewarm review compared to his tuned M2C, then eventually sold his M2C and bought an M2 CS.

Not sure you need a larger endorsement then him paying for an M2 CS with his own money.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

He reviewed it over a year ago for Top Gear mag, gave it a lukewarm review compared to his tuned M2C, then eventually sold his M2C and bought an M2 CS.

Not sure you need a larger endorsement then him paying for an M2 CS with his own money.

Interesting. I would love to see what he had to say. Was it an article or Video?

[VIERsr]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

Some people feel the 1M is a deeply flawed car (like Randy Pobst and Johnny Lieberman). Doug DeMuro recently said in his "top 5 BMWs" that the M2C is a much better car than the 1M.

Time will tell how the 1M ages, I've never driven one personally so I can't say.

Originally Posted by mchart

1M just didn't hold up well, honestly. I think it was a great car at release, but ultimately it was never a full 100% M car. People wanting a car from that generation generally think of the the M3/M5 with their unique engines, really.

I've owned both 1M and M2C and I agree, the 1M was great but lacked 'M soul' and the M2 is basically a better car in every respect, but c'mon even the Smart deserves to be mentioned before the Up GTI At least it's rear wheel drive
Not sure you have the Up in the US, it's garbage on wheels.

[babaikram]

I don't have an M2CS. There is no doubt the car is excellent. The aggregate of all reviews strongly suggests so. You owners: congratulations on acquiring one of the best cars around

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by babaikram

I don't have an M2CS. There is no doubt the car is excellent. The aggregate of all reviews strongly suggests so. You owners: congratulations on acquiring one of the best cars around

Is it comfortable compared to a GT4 or regular M2?

[S65V8]

M2CS is an awesome car but just way overpriced, Id pick a 981 GT4 all day long if youre after the purest drivers car in that price range.

COTY is rarely objective on relative price tag imo. CS blend of performance and practicality would truly be the best if it was actually lighter and appreciably had more power out of the box (not something easily tuned in M2C). Presently, one is paying for exclusivity with its limited numbers and carbon bits that dont actually make a difference in weight overall.

As for Harris getting a CS, sure, homey has the hook up and got it for below invoice, at that point who wouldnt

[mchart]

Originally Posted by S65V8

M2CS is an awesome car but just way overpriced, Id pick a 981 GT4 all day long if youre after the purest drivers car in that price range.

COTY is rarely objective on relative price tag imo. CS blend of performance and practicality would truly be the best if it was actually lighter and appreciably had more power out of the box (not something easily tuned in M2C). Presently, one is paying for exclusivity with its limited numbers and carbon bits that dont actually make a difference in weight overall.

As for Harris getting a CS, sure, homey has the hook up and got it for below invoice, at that point who wouldnt

I see people say this all the time, but when I was looking at GT4's, there was no dealer that was going to give me an allocation on one. All the dealers anywhere near me were trying to shovel used ones, or dealer orders that were $115k+ with stupid options. I got my M2CS base, and that was at least $25k cheaper than any GT4 I could find at the time. $85k versus $115-$120k is a pretty big deal to me. I can't justify much above $100k tops.

At this point it's all irrelevant since the M2CS isn't even available. My point here though is that those of us that could get a MSRP M2CS new, I think the price was just fine.

Also, I don't quite agree that the extra output on the CS is meaningless given that if you wanted a new M2C as of last summer, you're locked out of tuning, not to even dive into the warranty argument..

[mfarrzhp]

Originally Posted by S65V8

M2CS is an awesome car but just way overpriced, Id pick a 981 GT4 all day long if youre after the purest drivers car in that price range.

COTY is rarely objective on relative price tag imo. CS blend of performance and practicality would truly be the best if it was actually lighter and appreciably had more power out of the box (not something easily tuned in M2C). Presently, one is paying for exclusivity with its limited numbers and carbon bits that dont actually make a difference in weight overall.

As for Harris getting a CS, sure, homey has the hook up and got it for below invoice, at that point who wouldnt

I'll agree with you on the lighter part. It should come in at least 100KG lighter.

More power, why? It does the quarter in 11.8 - 12.2 at 120-122mph depending on the source and track. It's is very well balanced and puts the power down extremely well. So well, that I'd imagine another 100HP will improve trap speed but barely make a dent in time due to traction.

It's no tuned G80 M3, but most buyers aren't looking for that. I'm looking for driving pleasure, a big smile as I connect with the car. I'm not tracking it, at least no immediate plans.

The GT4 is a formidable competitor, unless you need rear seats and a real trunk. It is also realistically $20K-$25K more. My CS was $85K. I think it's a bargain. Apparently other do as well, paying over $100K for the same thing on a used model.

As for the majority of the cars being new, well new cars are better. Even the CS would give a 20 year old 8L V10 Viper a good run. I know I had a 2000 and ran 12.3 @ 117mph with my old GTS. The CS isn't even that fast for today's standards.

Sure some of the beauties are the E30, E39, E46, 993 Turbo and I'd love to own one or more but they are old. I'm not handy, so I don't want a high mileage car and I'm not willing to pay astronomical prices for a 20-30 year old garage queen.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by mchart

I see people say this all the time, but when I was looking at GT4's, there was no dealer that was going to give me an allocation on one. All the dealers anywhere near me were trying to shovel used ones, or dealer orders that were $115k+ with stupid options. I got my M2CS base, and that was at least $25k cheaper than any GT4 I could find at the time. $85k versus $115-$120k is a pretty big deal to me. I can't justify much above $100k tops.

At this point it's all irrelevant since the M2CS isn't even available. My point here though is that those of us that could get a MSRP M2CS new, I think the price was just fine.

Also, I don't quite agree that the extra output on the CS is meaningless given that if you wanted a new M2C as of last summer, you're locked out of tuning, not to even dive into the warranty argument..

agreed new for new, I meant a used 981 GT4 which somewhat equates to a M2CS since you cant get either new any longer. Either not available or sold out.

Congrats on M2CS, and certainly a fantastic car.

[6CylindersEveryDay]

Originally Posted by mchart

I see people say this all the time, but when I was looking at GT4's, there was no dealer that was going to give me an allocation on one. All the dealers anywhere near me were trying to shovel used ones, or dealer orders that were $115k+ with stupid options. I got my M2CS base, and that was at least $25k cheaper than any GT4 I could find at the time. $85k versus $115-$120k is a pretty big deal to me. I can't justify much above $100k tops.

At this point it's all irrelevant since the M2CS isn't even available. My point here though is that those of us that could get a MSRP M2CS new, I think the price was just fine.

Also, I don't quite agree that the extra output on the CS is meaningless given that if you wanted a new M2C as of last summer, you're locked out of tuning, not to even dive into the warranty argument..

Quoted for truth, even the Cayman GTS 4.0 spec'd the way that I'd want it (Python Green) wasn't that shy of $100k. I'm sure somebody somewhere paid under $105k for a GT4, but I doubt it's very common....also if you are springing for a GT4 who wouldn't want one of the fancier colors that cost more?

I feel pretty good about paying $85k for peak M.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by mfarrzhp

I'll agree with you on the lighter part. It should come in at least 100KG lighter.

More power, why? It does the quarter in 11.8 - 12.2 at 120-122mph depending on the source and track. It's is very well balanced and puts the power down extremely well. So well, that I'd imagine another 100HP will improve trap speed but barely make a dent in time due to traction.

It's no tuned G80 M3, but most buyers aren't looking for that. I'm looking for driving pleasure, a big smile as I connect with the car. I'm not tracking it, at least no immediate plans.

The GT4 is a formidable competitor, unless you need rear seats and a real trunk. It is also realistically $20K-$25K more. My CS was $85K. I think it's a bargain. Apparently other do as well, paying over $100K for the same thing on a used model.

As for the majority of the cars being new, well new cars are better. Even the CS would give a 20 year old 8L V10 Viper a good run. I know I had a 2000 and ran 12.3 @ 117mph with my old GTS. The CS isn't even that fast for today's standards.

Sure some of the beauties are the E30, E39, E46, 993 Turbo and I'd love to own one or more but they are old. I'm not handy, so I don't want a high mileage car and I'm not willing to pay astronomical prices for a 20-30 year old garage queen.

Some fair points, but you ask Why more power? because $85k in my book deserves more power and a car that is actually lighter weight bc of CF bits added onto it.

Agree the 'new for new' is a different comparo and to reference my reply above, $85k used GT4 vs a $85k M2CS for pure driving pleasure and track performance which both are built for, I personally would have to pick a GT4.

Ultimately, both are wonderful cars, and I am sure the CS will be worth a lot in the years to come, but putting that aside - what is objectively a better track day car with the most driving feel and tactile precision - GT4 will edge out the CS a bit is all Im saying…

M2C on the other hand is handily cheaper for almost the same amount of fun…and if you add $20k in mods - thats a lot of BMW fun…

Lastly, GTS 4.0 becomes interesting even at a base level which is about the same price as a M2CS at $85k. Since both would be bare bones given what a CS is supposed to be.

I am 100% sure no one with a CS is going to say they bought the wrong car for $85k and not that they should, everyone buys cars for a specific reason and if a CS is your bag of fun -