[Maarten002]

Hi guys!

So I found this e46 M3CSL with just 60.000 km in grey all original.
I've got an M2CS I'm the first owner, sapphire black, gold wheels, ceramic brakes and DCT.

Both look showroom fresh.

The question now is, would you trade?
As I can't afford both sadly!

[Jimjamz]

Assuming you mean a M3 CS?

Short answer - no way.

Was at a p car dealer today for a car for the wife and they stopped short as soon as they saw us pulling up in the M2 CS and said straight out 'no way you should ever sell that car'. 'Not planning on it', I told him. Next car I get for me will be a third car.

[Maarten002]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Assuming you mean a M3 CS?

Short answer - no way.

Was at a p car dealer today and they stopped short as soon as they saw us pulling up in the M2 CS and said straight out 'no way you should ever sell that car'. 'Not planning on it', I told him. Next car I get for me will be a third car.

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Assuming you mean a M3 CS?

Short answer - no way.

Was at a p car dealer today and they stopped short as soon as they saw us pulling up in the M2 CS and said straight out 'no way you should ever sell that car'. 'Not planning on it', I told him. Next car I get for me will be a third car.

No no, I mean the original 2003 e46 M3 CSL

[(K)]

That's not even question worth pondering, CSL for sure.

[Hedoniste]

A friend just sold his M2 CS for a beautiful 991.1 GTS. Do what your heart want

[No Boost]

I'd prioritize driving enjoyment between those two and have that be the deciding factor. Are you able to test drive the CSL?

[Enabled]

I would keep the M2CS. The M3 CSL is special, but the M2CS is special-er.

[Golden3ye]

Would you actually drive the CSL. It is getting to the point where good examples are collector material. Id hate to trade in a car I like to drive for a very special car I feel guilty driving

[mchart]

A couple of things..

The CSL is the holy grail of the S54 cars, but the original transmission is complete garbage. Full stop. So you either keep it all original for concours purposes and don't really drive it because of the garbage transmission, or you do a manual conversion so you can actually drive it a bit more, but that will impact long-term appreciation/collectability.

Personally, I think at that point it makes more sense to save the money and get an even lower mileage/mint E46 M3 with stickshift that you can preserve, but also not have to worry about the transmission. You can also quite easily add the carbon airbox & MAP conversion to said car which gives you the best aspect of the CSL, which was that screaming carbon airbox.

I took the profit on my M2 CS and traded it for a mint 2002 M Coupe, and I have no regrets. I'm old enough that the early 2000 BMW's are the cars I want to keep, not the M2 CS.

As for a comment above that the M2 CS is more special than a CSL.. No, it's not. Production numbers on the CSL are less, and it's far more special. Also, any 20 year old M car is guaranteed to appreciate at this point compared to the M2 CS. Finally, the S54 with a carbon fiber airbox is pure bliss. It just puts the S55 or any of the modern turbo engines to shame when it comes to sound, and it's by no means a slow car even by modern standards.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Maarten002

No no, I mean the original 2003 e46 M3 CSL

My bad. They seem like very different propositions. One is a car capable of daily driving for 5-10 years before being pivoted to a special occasion driver whereas the other (CSL) would already be a special occasion car at this point.

If you can afford to store the CSL and daily the CS could that work? Otherwise the response will clearly depend on your circumstances and preferences. For me, the CS if I could only have one. The CSL could go down as BMW's best NA car and the F87 CS as BMW's best turbo.

[mfarrzhp]

The M3 CSL is the pinnacle of the E46 lineup, which is probably my favorite chassis of all time. It's 240 lbs lighter than the standard E46 M3. We didn't get it here in the US.

That said, I wouldn't want to daily the car, although you certainly could. I think it's a better investment than the M2 CS if you make it a garage queen.

I've never driven the old SMG transmission cars, but I hear that they are pretty bad compared to the latest DCT. I've driven the early 2000s Ferrari F1 transmission, and I can confirm they are not very good.

You said owning both is not really an option, could you get the CSL and something like a used regular 1 or 2 series or a VW GTI for a daily driver?

Personally, I'd keep the CS and enjoy perhaps the best daily driver on the market right now.

However, you can't really go wrong either way unless your expecting the CSL to be a better all around car. The M2 CS beats the E46 CSL by 8 seconds on the Nurburgring. That's actually a big endorsement for the CSL as that was a crazy fast time for 18 years ago.

[mchart]

Yeah, if the car is to be a daily driver, you'd be insane to daily the CSL at this point, unless you're rich and you just don't care.

[medphysdave]

I wouldn't want a car that is more "raw" than the m2CS for a DD. It's still quiet enough to take a phone call, but raw enough that I don't feel completely isolated from the road. Maybe I'm just getting old . Any chance you could swing both for a short period of time and sell the one that speaks to you less?

[to_riffic]

Tough. M3 CSL at this point is a garage queen. Something you take out a handful of times a year. Trading the M2 CS for a CSL isn't much of an equal trade considering you can put many more smiles per miles than you can on the CSL. A CSL is more of a car to add to a garage rather than a 1:1 proposition....

[Enabled]

Originally Posted by Enabled

I would keep the M2CS. The M3 CSL is special, but the M2CS is special-er.

Originally Posted by mchart

A couple of things..

The CSL is the holy grail of the S54 cars, but the original transmission is complete garbage. Full stop. So you either keep it all original for concours purposes and don't really drive it because of the garbage transmission, or you do a manual conversion so you can actually drive it a bit more, but that will impact long-term appreciation/collectability.

Personally, I think at that point it makes more sense to save the money and get an even lower mileage/mint E46 M3 with stickshift that you can preserve, but also not have to worry about the transmission. You can also quite easily add the carbon airbox & MAP conversion to said car which gives you the best aspect of the CSL, which was that screaming carbon airbox.

I took the profit on my M2 CS and traded it for a mint 2002 M Coupe, and I have no regrets. I'm old enough that the early 2000 BMW's are the cars I want to keep, not the M2 CS.

As for a comment above that the M2 CS is more special than a CSL.. No, it's not. Production numbers on the CSL are less, and it's far more special. Also, any 20 year old M car is guaranteed to appreciate at this point compared to the M2 CS. Finally, the S54 with a carbon fiber airbox is pure bliss. It just puts the S55 or any of the modern turbo engines to shame when it comes to sound, and it's by no means a slow car even by modern standards.

I don't think I worded my post well enough to provide emphasis.

The M3 CSL is already at legendary status. They cost over $100k USD already with many km. They're already expensive, and are still plagued by that SMG. Buying one now doesn't make sense in exchange for an M2CS.

The M2CS is going to be legendary. If you have one now, keep it. They're barely 1 year old and will reach that status just as easily. It's objectively better, and for the time being, cheaper.


The S54 is a great engine, and you can have an S54 for under $20k with an SMG, or even less. Carbon intakes are available for non CSL, and it would be a vehicle you can drive.

Exhaust-wise, the S55 wins over the rasp of the S54, although they're oddly similar.


Obviously if you can have both, take them both, but you're buying legends, not cars you can drive as dailys.

[mchart]

Originally Posted by Enabled

I don't think I worded my post well enough to provide emphasis.

The M3 CSL is already at legendary status. They cost over $100k USD already with many km. They're already expensive, and are still plagued by that SMG. Buying one now doesn't make sense in exchange for an M2CS.

The M2CS is going to be legendary. If you have one now, keep it. They're barely 1 year old and will reach that status just as easily. It's objectively better, and for the time being, cheaper.


The S54 is a great engine, and you can have an S54 for under $20k with an SMG, or even less. Carbon intakes are available for non CSL, and it would be a vehicle you can drive.

Exhaust-wise, the S55 wins over the rasp of the S54, although they're oddly similar.


Obviously if you can have both, take them both, but you're buying legends, not cars you can drive as dailys.

It is dishonest to think the M2 CS is going to be legendary when no one knows what BMW is going to do for the final send out of this final generation of ICE M2's. It could be. There is a high-chance, but it's not a given. The CSL? That's only going to appreciate if you buy one right now, even with how high in price they already are. They are only going to go up.

Also, the S54 & E46 platform is far cheaper/easier to maintain for another couple decades. The M2 CS being as new as it is has far more electronics that can fail on it, and be a nightmare to maintain in the long-run.

Of course, all of this is personal preference. Me personally? I couldn't see myself owning my M2 CS for 20+ years. I took the profit I made and used it towards a 2002 M Coupe, and an 850 CSi. Both of which are cars I want to hold onto for another 20 years. Maybe in twenty years i'll regret dumping the CS, but I doubt it. The turbo cars just don't do it for me. They're impressive technically, and fast. However, they just don't speak to me like the old cars do.

I'll point out that the appreciation curve for the CSL is only going to increase in the next few years. In only a couple more years they'll be 25+ years old, and at that point US buyers can finally import & legally register them. That opens a massive market that will only increase the value.

[Davil]

Roughly every 15 years BMW drops a masterpiece.

1989 M3 Evo
2004 M3 CSL
2020 M2 CS

You have one of them. Collect ///M all!

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Assuming you mean a M3 CS?

Short answer - no way.

Was at a p car dealer today for a car for the wife and they stopped short as soon as they saw us pulling up in the M2 CS and said straight out 'no way you should ever sell that car'. 'Not planning on it', I told him. Next car I get for me will be a third car.

Can you donate a kidney? It'd be nice having both of them

[chris719]

The CSL, and it's not even close. No F chassis car is that special. The CSL is the peak BMW in terms of driving experience.

S54 and CSL don't have torque management, turbo lag, etc. It actually engine brakes hard when you lift. It sounds far better, it drives much more aggressively. One is already a collector's item and the other one is just another good modern M car.

[ASAP]

I would not swap... yes the CSL is special... the CS is a better / modern car.

That SMG is awful and by modern standards its still a slow car... it also has 0 daily qualities if you care about that.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I would not swap... yes the CSL is special... the CS is a better / modern car.

That SMG is awful and by modern standards its still a slow car... it also has 0 daily qualities if you care about that.

Yes, if the OP is going to drive the car daily, or much at all, then I would keep the CS. The CSL is not a good daily at all, and if I owned one it would be garaged 98% of the time.

If we are talking as a collectible, the CS is inferior to the CSL and will never be valued similarly.

[Enabled]

I firmly believe that if they changed absolutely nothing to the M2CS, and only sold it in Europe, this thread would have a different ring to it.