[3t3p]

Originally Posted by maniac886

Thanks, I also live in Manchester - roads are horrendous so defiantly looking at these coilovers.

Pre covid the worst roads I've seen in the UK!

All I can say the more I drive, she's still an M2 with the crash gone. It's not turned into a soft luxury wallowy barge or anything.

[3t3p]

Been for a long B road blast in the Peak District today, boiling hot day and glad for the FMIC upgrade!

Anyway the suspension flows really well, the jittery nature of the car is much reduced. You still very much have fun on crests and dips though I will say under strong compression the composure is incrementally better than stock.

For sure I was able to carry more confidence and therefore speed round corners.

Something I'm not sure on is when on a moderately tight bend when the suspension is fully loaded up, it sometimes feels like I then need to turn the wheel again into the bend to get the car round. Giving it a kind of 'tucking' sensation.

I don't remember the stock setup alerting me to this. Not sure if my driving technique is responsible or it is the car allowing me to pick new lines mid corner. Didn't notice this on every corner.


Didn't see TC light on once even in sport+ mode hammering 2nd. Then again stock map, hot day and new PS4S!

Something I am concerned about now is the resonance at motorway speed esp the textures asphalt?

Almost sounds like aero-related noise (no aero changes made to the car) but occasionally it then builds to a metallic fizz/shrill of high frequency that is heard and felt through the steering wheel?

Car never did this before and noticed it per my initial impressions immediately on driving home. Feel like it's something I should call Litchfield about, if it needs looking at or not?

Overall car still an M2, drives much better over busy roads and is keener to turn into a bend. Puts power down over undulations with no issue and no TC light coming on. Just the noises as above at speed to get to bottom of.

Wiat till 1:15 for rougher tarmac, resonance goes mad. Any light clicking sound is phone mount on air vent.

[Billy_BMW]

I suspect that resonance is a combination of the increased compression damping vs the stock setup and your Michelin tyres. It’s a drawback of any coilover system with wide performance tyres, but a minor compromise vs having the stock system.

[3t3p]

Originally Posted by Billy_BMW

I suspect that resonance is a combination of the increased compression damping vs the stock setup and your Michelin tyres. It’s a drawback of any coilover system with wide performance tyres, but a minor compromise vs having the stock system.

Litchfield haven't heard of the issue and the point of this system is to keep refinement. It's a proper resonance that can ring through the steering wheel, I'd worry something could fatigue one day. They say to bring the car to them to have a look.

Another chap with the same setup doesn't have any resonance problems.

Not saying you're not right but luckily I don't often need to do long journeys and my DD speeds are just around town where there is no issue.

You can hear it more clearly with headphones, at least on my phone speaker even knowing the sound it's hard to hear. Doesn't mean it's whisper quiet it's just one of those things.

Could it be that changing the height just slightly may eliminate it?

[Billy_BMW]

If you’ve used the original topmounts and assuming Litchfield have installed everything correctly, I suspect the sound is normal; but I’m happy to be corrected.

Ride height on its own isn’t usually a problem, unless you’ve lowered considerably and are hitting the bumpstops, (which is unlikely from the pictures), but some ride height would be beneficial for day to day use and to give some extra travel on poor roads. Litchfield may recommend an additional alignment if the car is raised, which can be expensive, especially when you’ve paid for the initial installation costs.

Usually, most coilovers will mean an increase in NVH as they tend to be stiffer but with better damping compared to the stock setup.

The 2 series is also not the most refined car from the factory so when you have minimal rubber bushings and multiple chassis bracing, as is expected in a performance model, you tend to move its balance towards a motorsport product and day to day usability can suffer as a natural consequence.

Of course, having some of the worst roads known to man here in Manchester, any slight NVH from a performance suspension modification is greatly amplified.

By all means, feel free to get it checked out, but I think with more miles, you’ll grow accustomed it.

[3t3p]

Drop height should be effectively minimum so car can't go higher. Def agree with reserving front clearance for realistic liveability and Manchester.

Stock top mounts yes albeit M2C ones as have carbon and alu retrofit.

What it sounds like is the suspension is mated directly to the chassis and sound transmits directly through. But it's only doing this when resonating.
Otherwise it's as quiet as stock and more comfortable.

The springs are softer rate than stock. Damping appears better in sustained compression for example going down then up again in the road composure is more fluid.

Sounds naive but I didn't realise additional noise was a risk or a thing. Chap with Bilsteins on another M2 forum has no such noise and no additional NVH reported from the Nitron thread.

[3t3p]

Update on driving impressions:

Noise in motorway does appear to be just tyre noise transmitted more with some surfaces. The occasional resonance sounds line a panel vibrating briefly on the driver's side. At this point seems the kit is installed correctly and as above my car is now leaning more on the performance side of the balance.

Full throttle from a dig car puts down power much better, but what you feel is the rear of the car wiggling a bit more as a result and I'm not talking about breaking traction. I'm sure this is a trait of the car, the Dinan S2 has components to reduce this wiggle the stock car has, forget what they are called though. Anyway the car does feel to wiggle more than I remember on booting it from lower speeds.

Cornering I think needs some adjustment but I don't know what to make of it so advice appreciated. I'm wondering if a click of more firmness would help on the damper?

I'm feeling the car load up in a corner then the front end feel a bit floaty/nervous for a split second and a correction has to be made. It's not nice tbh and wonder if the road settings Litchfield use are actually too soft on the dampers?
In some corners therefore the car feels less on rails than stock.

Next thing will be how to adjust them?! I had a look under the car but can't see much, I'm presuming I'd need to jack the car up? They didn't tell me how to adjust them, not everyone is an amateur mechanic!

Cheers

[Billy_BMW]

I could be wrong but I believe the adjustment is on the bottom of the shocks. If so, you should be able to turn the steering wheel full left/right, reach around from the front of the wheel and feel the bottom of the shock to twist the adjuster without removing anything.

The rears may involve lying on your back and reaching the adjusters. Put something down to avoid getting dusty of course!

If you have the inclination, funds, space, it may be worthwhile investing in a decent hydraulic Jack and some torque wrenches/sockets. You can then adjust and remove wheels as you please. It’s not for everyone, as some people aren’t that way inclined, but it’s a good way to learn more about how to look after your car and learn the basics.

[Carrera2RS]

I can say that the original AST based Litchfield suspension has no resonance, I run my set up 600F and 595R and quite high damping, with stock top mounts very good for long journey and roadnoise (normal) the Millway top mounts changed this to frankly horrible. Id much rather drive my 991 GT3 with the suspension on full hard than drive the M2 with Millway top mounts on the motorway, at least I could actually have a conversation on the phone.

I’m swapping these for stock and -ve camber hubs, so it’s not just another track car. I do think your noise sounds like transmission through the tyres to the chassis. I’d have a look under the arches to see if anything is showing signs of polishing. I’ve seen things like this before where some loose trim with wind at speed moves and touches moving parts

I don’t think this is normal tbh

I bought a low race jack and it’s the best thing I bought, not a light expensive version just a really strong low jack

[Carrera2RS]

PS, i have adjusted many dampers I usually prefer separate bump and rebound as this can allow you to add a bit of additional rebound which I prefer for feel and to avoid some float. Especially on transition from brake to throttle when cornering (trail braking)

It’s always a compromise I normally tweak over a few weeks, start from recommended then try more if you feel it’s a little floaty or soft, if it feels frigid, hard and skittish then soften. I also find some slow speed humps and you can feel how hard the compression is and how the rebound is as you drive over. If the car at the back almost falls at the back for example rather than riding the bump you probably have too much rebound on the back. Once you get to feel what happens when you adjust it just takes time and tweaking.

[3t3p]

Thanks guys, Litchfield are going to look at it next Thursday, was just deciding if driving over two hrs there and back will be worth it but seems it will for piece of mind.

Carrera2Rs you may be onto something re trail braking, the float sensation may well be on braking hard immediately going into a corner.

I think these coilovers are two way adjustable but via one dial only so they're not (bump and rebound) truly independently adjustable?

[Carrera2RS]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Thanks guys, Litchfield are going to look at it next Thursday, was just deciding if driving over two hrs there and back will be worth it but seems it will for piece of mind.

Carrera2Rs you may be onto something re trail braking, the float sensation may well be on braking hard immediately going into a corner.

I think these coilovers are two way adjustable but via one dial only so they're not (bump and rebound) truly independently adjustable?

The one knob adjustment raise bump and rebound independently so the ratio of bump to rebound is fixed you get more of both or less. With two way (two adjustments per strut) then you can adjust both. Usually start from the recommended I have a note from an M5 with KW V3s and I started with F 6,4 and R9,5 and finally ended up at F4,2 an R5,3 the number reflects the clicks from full hard so the lower the number the higher the damping. The shocks were 18 and 12 for full soft bump and full soft rebound.

Adding the extra rebound really improved the feel as what I think is happening is as you unload the front when coming off the brakes the nose stays down and doesn't rise. In terms of feel it just felt more planted and tight. I found you can get too much of a good thing as you could feel the skittishness over rough surfaces as the when didn't follow the bumps but the car dropped before the wheel extended (so wheel left the surface a little or lost traction)

Looking back I was righting notes like a little less choppy, better turn in, reduced understeer etc

[Carrera2RS]

PS I would probably be faster over poor surfaces with softer settings, but frankly I'd rather enjoy the feel of the car and accept I lose a bit of traction over bad surfaces. After all its enjoyment that counts for me

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Update on driving impressions:

Noise in motorway does appear to be just tyre noise transmitted more with some surfaces. The occasional resonance sounds line a panel vibrating briefly on the driver's side. At this point seems the kit is installed correctly and as above my car is now leaning more on the performance side of the balance.

Full throttle from a dig car puts down power much better, but what you feel is the rear of the car wiggling a bit more as a result and I'm not talking about breaking traction. I'm sure this is a trait of the car, the Dinan S2 has components to reduce this wiggle the stock car has, forget what they are called though. Anyway the car does feel to wiggle more than I remember on booting it from lower speeds.

Cornering I think needs some adjustment but I don't know what to make of it so advice appreciated. I'm wondering if a click of more firmness would help on the damper?

I'm feeling the car load up in a corner then the front end feel a bit floaty/nervous for a split second and a correction has to be made. It's not nice tbh and wonder if the road settings Litchfield use are actually too soft on the dampers?
In some corners therefore the car feels less on rails than stock.

Next thing will be how to adjust them?! I had a look under the car but can't see much, I'm presuming I'd need to jack the car up? They didn't tell me how to adjust them, not everyone is an amateur mechanic!

Cheers

Front end twitchiness/mind corner corrections - that sounds very odd - reads like you've getting understeer if/when the outer front wheel runs out of suspension travel. Does this occur on LH or RH bends or both ?

As mentioned already, do a visual check to see if there's any signs of rubbing plus I'd check yr tyre pressures and suggest you try F31/R32.

Assuming L'field told you the adjustment settings, once you've found the adjusters on front struts, suggest winding adjusters to fully closed and then count the clicks open as per L'field settings to see if resetting helps.

No doubt Litchfield will check/adjust alignment as necessary when you take your car back in.

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

I can say that the original AST based Litchfield suspension has no resonance, I run my set up 600F and 595R and quite high damping, with stock top mounts very good for long journey and roadnoise (normal) the Millway top mounts changed this to frankly horrible. Id much rather drive my 991 GT3 with the suspension on full hard than drive the M2 with Millway top mounts on the motorway, at least I could actually have a conversation on the phone.

I’m swapping these for stock and -ve camber hubs, so it’s not just another track car. I do think your noise sounds like transmission through the tyres to the chassis. I’d have a look under the arches to see if anything is showing signs of polishing. I’ve seen things like this before where some loose trim with wind at speed moves and touches moving parts

I don’t think this is normal tbh

I bought a low race jack and it’s the best thing I bought, not a light expensive version just a really strong low jack

Agree - 3t3p's reported resonance/bad vibes are not normal.

FWIW - I run MPerf coilovers/-ve camber hubs/oem top mounts and monoball TS/UCA on 18" 245/265 MPSS and my car's noise on motorway is less

[3t3p]

I've noticed 'float' or need to mid corner correct on left and right hand turns.

Litchfield did not tell me settings, I'm going to have a look today with car on some levelling chocks and note down the settings.

The front appears to be on 5, rear we haven't seen yet.

Any harm to increase both at same time to 6? Or better to increase front stiffness alone/rear stiffness alone so you can see what the relative changes do when driving?

It's been warm, have seen tyre pressure after few mins initial driving at 36psi, I used to run 34 psi cold. Worth reducing down?

Noise again is at 70-80mph on a certain road texture. Very difficult to localise but I think it's from the front of the car.

What's weird is below this speed there is NO noise.

[FreeDarko]

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

I can say that the original AST based Litchfield suspension has no resonance, I run my set up 600F and 595R and quite high damping, with stock top mounts very good for long journey and roadnoise (normal) the Millway top mounts changed this to frankly horrible. Id much rather drive my 991 GT3 with the suspension on full hard than drive the M2 with Millway top mounts on the motorway, at least I could actually have a conversation on the phone.

I'm swapping these for stock and -ve camber hubs, so it's not just another track car. I do think your noise sounds like transmission through the tyres to the chassis. I'd have a look under the arches to see if anything is showing signs of polishing. I've seen things like this before where some loose trim with wind at speed moves and touches moving parts

I don't think this is normal tbh

I bought a low race jack and it's the best thing I bought, not a light expensive version just a really strong low jack

This is the first time I'm reading anything negative about the Millway Camber plates.

Can you elaborate more on the noise issue?

[Daleb]

I ran the regular b16s at 6F and 4R. Tyre pressures cold were 31/32psi all round. A floaty front end could also be down to high tyre pressures too.

I played around with a fair few combos and found the above the best for me. Not sure how those settings will behave with the camber plates and uniballs on the 18s.

[Carrera2RS]

Originally Posted by FreeDarko

This is the first time I'm reading anything negative about the Millway Camber plates.

Can you elaborate more on the noise issue?

Check this thread out https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1813780&page=3

I am definitely not after a 'comfortable car' guy. I am very happy with stiff suspension and never use a comfort button in any car. But the car is now very prone to picking up NVH and for me has detracted form the car. It now feels similar in terms of NVH to hard worn tyres. The increased precision for me is not compensating for the harshness of ride. It reminded me of fitting solid subframe mounts to a GTi years ago. I now appreciate the the M division probably chose the right balance between feel and precision and noise, NVH. Evidently BMW's are less tolerant of solid top mounts than many other cars according to Litchfield

[3t3p]

My tyres are at 33.5psi cold actually so not too bad.

It's weird sometimes I put the car at pace through a corner and notice nothing, other times it comes back. I feel like the front could be more precise somehow.

Traction is amazing though, can nail 1st with no horrible juddering and car accelerates from a dig a fair bit faster than before.

I'll ask on Thurs what settings they use and what they can do re the front end feel, I could have the back one notch firmer too I think.

[3t3p]

Went to Litchfield on Thurs, on the way down the car was well behaved and noise chartecterists in check. I was checked in by Ian and walked to the car to sort the immobiliser for the test drive. I didn't realise it was him until afterward!
Car was then test driven by a mechanic within only a few mins of arrival, they do crack on here! Nothing abnormal noted and saw that the car was back and was on the ramp with Ian under the car looking at the suspension and chatting to the mechanic (think he was called Stewart sorry if wrong!).
Ian said they'd up the damper settings for me by two clicks, I asked a bit more about the Bilsteins.
They have 12 settings it turns out, I thought 10 (it does say 10 currently on the site). Stock Litchfield setting is 2 at rear and 5 at front. Always wanting 3-4 stops of separation between front and back.

Rear was dialled up to 4 and front to 7 and then went for test drive with mechanic. On the route the car only for a split second made the loudest sound I had been concerned about, the mechanic heard this and deemed it an artefact of performance suspension on this chasis and the suspension had been installed correctly (not much to go wrong here apparently).

Did a few tests from a dig, 2nd gear and stamping it, turbo spool lag n' all. The floating at the back was dramatically reduced, the faintest wiggle can be felt, again 'within the suspension' but much more precise than before. Of course all the power is put down.

Withe the firmer settings bumps are felt again, close to stock in fact but never with the crashing into the chassis like stock does. It's like driving the original car again, for me, so for some this may be a bad thing as some of that plushness is negated. The car is rawer again but as above doesn't crash on bumps and then when driving would anticipate that you have all the advantages of more capable dampers.

I'd go so far to say that with these settings of four at the rear seven at the front this is going to be closest to what the stock car feels like albeit with Bilsteins in situ.

The test drive wasn't all that long to really test corners and on way back stuck behind a truck... but I'm anticipating any sense of float is reduced or gone now.

I need to adjust/play around with the settings myself next, I will be intrigued to see what three rear and six front will be like, I think this will be the best OEM+ feeling. Ian said changes to the rear dampers are always more obvious than when made at the front. This may be old hat to many of you but this is learning for me.

He asked if I was happy with the new settings and we had a bit of a chat before I left. The drive home was uneventful and i'm reassured it's just performance suspension noise, I naively thought I could have my cake and eat it! It does seem to be slowly getting quieter, either its psychoacoustic adaptation or the tyres are wearing into the new aligment settings.
I've never had the short metallic 'fizz' through the steering rack again.

The mechanic said the caster was greyed out so not truly measured and as already stated it's fixed in place and not adjustable on the stock car.

There is still plushness even when set to firmer. Having drive. A bit more with the firmer settings, the car just doesn't crash on a bump lime before. Happy with the rear end now, it feels about right. The front though, may have to go up to 8.

There's a long sweeping corner on ramp near me. You can go round it at 60mph+ and it has a couple of singular ruts across the road. The back of the car is settling I think more quickly than stock did.

The front however bumps, dives down then comes up again it feels like. All in quick succession but I didn't notice this on stock, only noticed stock that the rear was more active (some say 'unsettled'?)

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

Withe the firmer settings bumps are felt again, close to stock in fact but never with the crashing into the chassis like stock does.

Trimming/going to shorter bump stops on the original suspension will give you a lot more margin for that crashing into the chassis feel on the stock suspension. I did that on my car.

[3t3p]

Well I've got advanced driver training day next month so will see what my instructor thinks of my driving and the car hehe!