Did I screw up going with cup 2s?

cncmastr · 02-17-2021, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Quote:

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

I guess I could have rephrased it form the perspective of between cup2s and pss are the cup2s that much more sticky and capable of throwing that much more road debris than the pss

I've never been to the track and would be surprised if I take my cs there even once but that's just me

Then skip both the PSS and Cup2 and get a set of PS4S: better/safer than the PSS and Cup2 in the wet + better than the PSS in the dry.

I was going to get the PS4S once my PSS are due for replacement. Why didn't BMW release the F87 CS with those tyres as an option? I had the PS4S on my F80 and they were brilliant.

They didn't develop a ps4s for the f87 chassis they use the tires that are current as of the development of the chassis.

Jimjamz · 02-17-2021, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncmastr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemis

Quote:

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

I guess I could have rephrased it form the perspective of between cup2s and pss are the cup2s that much more sticky and capable of throwing that much more road debris than the pss

I've never been to the track and would be surprised if I take my cs there even once but that's just me

Then skip both the PSS and Cup2 and get a set of PS4S: better/safer than the PSS and Cup2 in the wet + better than the PSS in the dry.

I was going to get the PS4S once my PSS are due for replacement. Why didn't BMW release the F87 CS with those tyres as an option? I had the PS4S on my F80 and they were brilliant.

They didn't develop a ps4s for the f87 chassis they use the tires that are current as of the development of the chassis.

I must be missing something. I understand you can order them for the F87 CS?

VisualEcho · 02-17-2021, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I must be missing something. I understand you can order them for the F87 CS?

You cannot order the PS4S for any M2 in any country.

CSBM5 · 02-17-2021, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

I must be missing something. I understand you can order them for the F87 CS?

You can install the standard replacement market PS4S once you have the car.

f80_MG · 02-17-2021, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptgltw

Ah ok, I saw those. and didn't think of entering 2021 for model CS. Shame on them.

Thanks for the info.

Apex wheel and Michelin Cup2 tire combo coming.

ptgltw You may want to call TireRack before ordering/shipping. Looking at ordering those this morning, and while the specs match the Cup2 Connects, it doesn't say these are connect anywhere on the TireRack website.

CSBM5 · 02-17-2021, 08:07 AM

Yeah, if your goal is to get the exact BMW * (i.e. DT1) version of the Cup2 240 Connect tire, I would ask someone with those already to provide the Michelin part numbers. I see on the Michelin web site that, for example, there are two 265/35-19 'DT1' versions available...no idea what the difference is in those. Part numbers 13215 and 67497.

dgm3 · 02-17-2021, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davil

"If your car came with PS4S or Cup 2 tires from the factory, it is probably best to stick with that exact model when it's time to replace the tire. This is because a lot of work goes into developing bespoke tires from a handling and electronic programming standpoint, the subjective feel and performance is optimized for the car, and they often use a more aggressive and performance-oriented compound than standard off-the-shelf tires. Because of this, swapping out a bespoke PS4S or Cup 2 designed for your car to a wider off-the-shelf tire can actually make the car slower and hurt both the subjective and objective aspects of the car. If you decide to go with a different model of non-factory tires, even if it's the same size, it's important to swap all of your tires out and not mix and match one off-the-shelf tire with bespoke tires."

This is what forum member speznazos (or however you spell it sorry) has preached and resulted in quite a number of arguments. Of course he is right.

Thanks for that link. Very good article!

Nothing new here ... what is particularly baffling is that so many car enthusiasts still don't understand the difference between an OE and a replacement tire.

CarJunkie · 02-17-2021, 09:04 AM

I will switch to PS4s through Tire Rack when my PSS wear out for my daily driven CS. They are my street and rain/cold track tire on the 1M and are definitely a better tire with enough margin to overcome any deficit from not being "developed by BMW" for the f87 chassis.

mchart · 02-17-2021, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

You cannot order the PS4S for any M2 in any country.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...S&autoModClar=

Just because the car wasn't specifically developed for PS4S doesn't mean you can't use them. They out-perform the now generation old PSS in every objective way. Anyone who chooses to believe you can't use anything besides a tire that the OEM developed the car with is just wasting their money.

Are people here saying run the cheapest General brand tires you can? No. Using a different size? No. We're saying Michelin has developed a newer tire which out-performs the prior in every way. I can assure you the suspension characteristics won't change much moving from a PSS to a PS4S. It's not going to magically make the car handle worse due to that fact. Any less then 1% loss will be made up for with the superior technology of the newer tire.

Do I continue to run the original tubed tires that Jaguar specced for my '69 XKE? Hell no. I'd be an idiot to do so. Tire technology changes fast, and unless you're prepping the car for Concours, it makes entirely no sense to tie yourself down to older technology.

MadBimmeRad · 02-17-2021, 09:54 AM

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Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davil

Aren't they 5.7mm when new?

That's what I read, 7.2/32 which converts to about 5.7 mm. I wouldn't be surprised if the mechanics are going by MPSS tread depth which is much deeper.

Guys, I love you all but can't you see not only is it easier to say 5.7mm than 7.2/32, it's less typing too

mfarrzhp · 02-17-2021, 10:18 AM

Still break in mode for me, but the PSS seem to be just fine for the street. They are less than optimal on my tuned M3, however.

My concern with the Cup2 is the life of the tire. Very expensive to only last 4-5K miles.

I'm in a very warm climate, so outside of rain I have no issues with running summer tires year round.

I didn't have a choice on tire as I just found the CS on the lot, but wonder if it's worth the upgrade to the Cup2 for my next set or go the PS4S?

AlpsRider · 02-17-2021, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Guys, I love you all but can't you see not only is it easier to say 5.7mm than 7.2/32, it's less typing too

You are preaching to the choir on that one 😂.

AlpsRider · 02-17-2021, 10:37 AM

Although the PS4S tires are really great, you can't have everything. Many performance drivers have stated that there is less road feel and more steering angle is needed to achieve the same turn as a MPSS or Cup2. I found them grippy and way more comfortable than MPSS. However at the breakaway limit they don't communicate as much feel. If you never go to the breakaway limit then it's a no brainer.

dgm3 · 02-17-2021, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchart

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...S&autoModClar=

We're saying Michelin has developed a newer tire which out-performs the prior in every way. .

This is pure speculation from your side. The PS4S you are refering to is a replacement tire, meaning the same tire for any buyer with any car. The tire performance balance corresponds to what Michelin has defined for that specific segment.
On the other hand the PSS is an OE tire which was developed according BMW requirements (and they should be very high based on the praise the car received), it could very well be that the OE PSS features a more advanced tread compound or other technology than the replacement PS4S. You don't know (I don't know either ) ....but I am sure BMW know and there is a good reason why they keep the PSS on the M2CS.

mchart · 02-17-2021, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgm3

This is pure speculation from your side. The PS4S you are refering to is a replacement tire, meaning the same tire for any buyer with any car. The tire performance balance corresponds to what Michelin has defined for that specific segment.
On the other hand the PSS is an OE tire which was developed according BMW requirements (and they should be very high based on the praise the car received), it could very well be that the OE PSS features a more advanced tread compound or other technology than the replacement PS4S. You don't know (I don't know either ) ....but I am sure BMW know and there is a good reason why they keep the PSS on the M2CS.

No, we don't know for certain. I can tell you from experience, it's because PSS already had the cash sunk, and was in the parts bin. The money was spent on the Cup 2 for lap times. Why spend more money on the newer tire, when the PSS is already a great tire, they've got a Cup 2 option, and BMW already has the money invested in them?

VisualEcho · 02-17-2021, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchart

Just because the car wasn't specifically developed for PS4S doesn't mean you can't use them.

I never said you couldn't use them, I said you can't order them with the car.

And you might look through my posts before you try to school me on tires.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Although the PS4S tires are really great, you can't have everything. Many performance drivers have stated that there is less road feel and more steering angle is needed to achieve the same turn as a MPSS or Cup2. I found them grippy and way more comfortable than MPSS. However at the breakaway limit they don't communicate as much feel. If you never go to the breakaway limit then it's a no brainer.

Agreed. Since I drive mostly in warm weather, I actually prefer the MPSS. I also prefer the tread pattern, and the bead.

dgm3 · 02-17-2021, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchart

No, we don't know for certain. I can tell you from experience, it's because PSS already had the cash sunk, and was in the parts bin. The money was spent on the Cup 2 for lap times. Why spend more money on the newer tire, when the PSS is already a great tire, they've got a Cup 2 option, and BMW already has the money invested in them?

If the replacement PS4S would out-perform the PSS in every objective way as you wrote it BMW would not have to make any development, just throw these tires on the M2CS.

medphysdave · 02-17-2021, 02:27 PM

I'm a cup2 fanboy for the CS. However, if they only last 5k miles, then I will likely move on. I think they'll last 10k-15k with DD work so I'm not worried.

AlpsRider · 02-17-2021, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm a cup2 fanboy for the CS. However, if they only last 5k miles, then I will likely move on. I think they'll last 10k-15k with DD work so I'm not worried.

Since they have a 240 wear rating and taking into consideration the tread depth, that sounds about right to me.

medphysdave · 02-17-2021, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Since they have a 240 wear rating and taking into consideration the tread depth, that sounds about right to me.

They remind me of the old RE-11. I loved that tire. Great in the street and tolerated some novice/intermediate level track days.

Jimjamz · 02-17-2021, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Quote:

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm a cup2 fanboy for the CS. However, if they only last 5k miles, then I will likely move on. I think they'll last 10k-15k with DD work so I'm not worried.

Since they have a 240 wear rating and taking into consideration the tread depth, that sounds about right to me.

The PSS is the older version of the PS4S and I understand the newer PS4S wears better, is quieter and more comfortable though sacrifices a little to the PSS in turn in and track performance (though the matter seems debatable). When I made the move from PSS to PS4S on the F80 I noticed the improvement as a DD.

https://tflcar.com/2020/09/michelin-...-sport-review/

That perhaps explains a little more why M went with the PSS over the newer PS4S given the performance focus of the CS.

medphysdave · 02-17-2021, 07:21 PM

Don't get the cup2 if you enjoy a quiet drive.

02-17-2021, 08:07 AM	#72
CSBM5 Brigadier General 2721 Rep 3,334 Posts Drives: 2019 M2 Comp, 2011 M3, etc Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Greenville, SC iTrader: (2)	Yeah, if your goal is to get the exact BMW * (i.e. DT1) version of the Cup2 240 Connect tire, I would ask someone with those already to provide the Michelin part numbers. I see on the Michelin web site that, for example, there are two 265/35-19 'DT1' versions available...no idea what the difference is in those. Part numbers 13215 and 67497. __________________ Current Stable: 2024 G20 M340i Melbourne Red/Cognac 2019 F87 M2 Competition 6MT, LBB, slicktop, exec pkg 2007 E91 328i Silver, slushbox, Eibach fr/E93 M3 rear sway bars, ARC-8
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02-17-2021, 09:04 AM	#74
CarJunkie Colonel 2617 Rep 2,819 Posts Drives: e82 1M, f87 M2cs Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Tri-Cities, Washington iTrader: (1) Garage List 2020 M2cs [0.00] 2011 BMW 1M [0.00]	I will switch to PS4s through Tire Rack when my PSS wear out for my daily driven CS. They are my street and rain/cold track tire on the 1M and are definitely a better tire with enough margin to overcome any deficit from not being "developed by BMW" for the f87 chassis. __________________ 1M track toy mods: BMS chargepipe, BMS OCC, ADE FMIC, ADE motor mounts, MadDad/Lightweight Ti exhaust, ADE custom oil thermostat/cooler, custom MHD tune, F10 550i clutch, Ohlins R+T, Vorschlag camber plates, M3 'vert FSB with Turner endlinks, Stoptech Trophy BBK.
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02-17-2021, 10:18 AM	#77
mfarrzhp Captain 1491 Rep 900 Posts Drives: 2018 M3 Competition Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: FL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW X2 28i (Da ... [5.50] 2020 BMW X5 [6.00] 2020 BMW M2 CS [10.00]	Still break in mode for me, but the PSS seem to be just fine for the street. They are less than optimal on my tuned M3, however. My concern with the Cup2 is the life of the tire. Very expensive to only last 4-5K miles. I'm in a very warm climate, so outside of rain I have no issues with running summer tires year round. I didn't have a choice on tire as I just found the CS on the lot, but wonder if it's worth the upgrade to the Cup2 for my next set or go the PS4S?
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02-17-2021, 10:37 AM	#79
AlpsRider Brigadier General 2865 Rep 3,842 Posts Drives: M2 Competition, LBB, 6MT Join Date: May 2015 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	Although the PS4S tires are really great, you can't have everything. Many performance drivers have stated that there is less road feel and more steering angle is needed to achieve the same turn as a MPSS or Cup2. I found them grippy and way more comfortable than MPSS. However at the breakaway limit they don't communicate as much feel. If you never go to the breakaway limit then it's a no brainer.
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02-17-2021, 02:27 PM	#84
medphysdave Brigadier General 4554 Rep 4,665 Posts Drives: M2 CS \| 85 of 592 Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Charlotte, NC iTrader: (3)	I'm a cup2 fanboy for the CS. However, if they only last 5k miles, then I will likely move on. I think they'll last 10k-15k with DD work so I'm not worried.
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02-17-2021, 07:21 PM	#88
medphysdave Brigadier General 4554 Rep 4,665 Posts Drives: M2 CS \| 85 of 592 Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Charlotte, NC iTrader: (3)	Don't get the cup2 if you enjoy a quiet drive.
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