[Davil]

Originally Posted by Jimjamz

90% of the chips and dings on my 1M are from the track . . . gravel thrown onto the surface at the apex or track out areas from some bunglehead widening the track a foot too much, tire marbles, the occasional bolt. The track thrashes your
Good points. I haven't been on a track for several years and had forgotten about this. I'm on PSS and they seem very good. All of the debris on my car the other day came up from the wet road. What was more interesting to me was the spatter zones on the car. The rear PPF and wheel arch extrusions clearly served their purpose as they did their job yesterday. After a clean not a scrape or chip to be seen. Very happy.

I haven't driven a CS on the Pilot Slippery Sports. I had them on the M2C. They are not the grippiest tyres in the world, a bit squelchy but progressive and safe fun.

The Cup 2 Connect are amazing. Not sure they are a real track tyre though. More an extreme road tyre. Love them so far.

[jhall1957]

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

Been reading some comments about how they tear up the car. I’m going PPF wrap and mud guards but even that doesn’t make the car invincible. Should I have bought PSS? I figure I can order them now but the idea of tearing off the brand new tires on all 4 rims is nerve wracking to say the least

I thought about ordering a set of tires and rims and get the gold 763m but those apparently have been discontinued or going for 8000? Thoughts?

I'm not sure about the damage question but my car came with Cup 2's. I had hoped for summer delivering but it was Christmas.

So I ordered some of the gold wheels(because they look so good!) and mounted some All Season tire(Conti DWS). Just put them on yesterday and very happy!

I'll save the Cup 2 set up for summer use.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by CarJunkie

90% of the chips and dings on my 1M are from the track . . . gravel thrown onto the surface at the apex or track out areas from some bunglehead widening the track a foot too much, tire marbles, the occasional bolt. The track thrashes your car.

Beware of wasting wheels and M-CCBs when you end up in the gravel run-off area / sandbox on track.

In July 2020 one of the first delivered M2 CS cars crashed on the Nürburgring (see the dedicated thread here). Driver lost control upon exiting the 'Foxhole' ('Fuchsröhre' - a fast downhill section of 'The Ring'), hit the guardrails on the right ('shaving' alongside with the passenger side) and came to a halt at 'Adenauer Forst'. The car has been repaired in the meantime. Luckily red 2NH brakes instead of the yellow CCBs, or the repair bill to be footed would have been worse.

Originally Posted by MR.

I have seen the car back in the workshop in Prague. The car is not that damaged. It is all repairable. Interesting to see his front wheels being completely scratched from stones between the calipers and the brake calipers.

[jhall1957]

Best way to use your Cup 2's during the winter!

[Driver87]

You buy a CS for the performance. The cup2's have a great influence in that performance. The question to me is a tad absurd considering the intended purpose of the car. These things are meant to take on track! If you get some fling or paint scratches; that's the cost of doing business with any performance car...putting a less grippy tire on a CS is counterproductive. Just the way I see it.

[gemini.m3]

I guess I could have rephrased it form the perspective of between cup2s and pss are the cup2s that much more sticky and capable of throwing that much more road debris than the pss

I’ve never been to the track and would be surprised if I take my cs there even once but that’s just me

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Davil

The Cup 2 Connect are amazing. Not sure they are a real track tyre though. More an extreme road tyre. Love them so far.

Any tire that requires heat, or to be heated up to work to its fullest potential is a street/comp, or comp tire. So you can answer your own question there about the PSC2C.

Put another way, if the tire performs perfectly at 80° tarmac temp but gets greasy at 115° tarmac temp it's a street tire. But if the grip increases with the heat, it's a comp, or street/comp tire.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by deceptiv.M3

I guess I could have rephrased it form the perspective of between cup2s and pss are the cup2s that much more sticky and capable of throwing that much more road debris than the pss

I’ve never been to the track and would be surprised if I take my cs there even once but that’s just me

Then skip both the PSS and Cup2 and get a set of PS4S: better/safer than the PSS and Cup2 in the wet + better than the PSS in the dry.

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Then skip both the PSS and Cup2 and get a set of PS4S: better/safer than the PSS and Cup2 in the wet + better than the PSS in the dry.

Agreed, I have them on the 1M and absolutely love them. They are great on the street, and I also just did a track day with them (very cold temperature day) and while they made a lot of noise they performed admirably and did not do any chunking or delamination despite my abuse.

Edit: I'll add video....what sounds better, the PS4S or the tuned N54? LOL. The day started with frost, hence no race rubber.

[Karmic Man]

Even on track the Cup 2 requires a warm up phase before giving its best...the PS4S has grip pretty much from the get go so it will be grippier than the Cup 2 99% of the time on the street

I haven't even mentioned rainy days or what's even worst, COLD rainy days

[medphysdave]

I just got back from a 150mi trip on wet roads in 36 degree weather. The cup2s are fine after 15min of driving if you started with 50 degree ambient. It takes about 20min if starting in low 40s. This isn't from my seat of the pants test. I have the track connect sensors. The TPMS reported temps are worthless.

I'm certain the PS4S is a better tire for cold wet weather, but summer tires in cold weather, not freezing, is beginning to reach urban legend status.

If the roads aren't frozen, and your starting out with tires that aren't frozen, then don't worry about it. Just don't drive like jackass for the first 20min.



29min to get all tires into green zone. At 25min they were all about a degree low 77 degrees. This run was with almost no braking to get heat in the tires. Directly onto the highway. In town they heat up more quickly from braking. The TPMS read 60 degrees.

[ZL9M2]

I can't believe we have a thread that is discussing neutering the CS, one of maybe the best BMWs ever offered, with lesser tires because those spec'd on the car might kick up a few pebbles. Warm them up a bit and go for it. If you are driving in winter, get a set of snows.

[gemini.m3]

I think neutering is a little much eh lol - I was simply asking since this car came with two tire choices.. pilot super sport or cup 2s.. should I have gone with pilot super sport if I'm concerned about damage to the paint caused by the cars own debris

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Karmic Man

Even on track the Cup 2 requires a warm up phase before giving its best...the PS4S has grip pretty much from the get go so it will be grippier than the Cup 2 99% of the time on the street

I haven't even mentioned rainy days or what's even worst, COLD rainy days

Do you in Melbourne?

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I just got back from a 150mi trip on wet roads in 36 degree weather. The cup2s are fine after 15min of driving if you started with 50 degree ambient. It takes about 20min if starting in low 40s. This isn't from my seat of the pants test. I have the track connect sensors. The TPMS reported temps are worthless.

I'm certain the PS4S is a better tire for cold wet weather, but summer tires in cold weather, not freezing, is beginning to reach urban legend status.

If the roads aren't frozen, and your starting out with tires that aren't frozen, then don't worry about it. Just don't drive like jackass for the first 20min.


29min to get all tires into green zone. At 25min they were all about a degree low 77 degrees. This run was with almost no braking to get heat in the tires. Directly onto the highway. In town they heat up more quickly from braking. The TPMS read 60 degrees.

We're really lucky in Australia; coldest nights in most residential areas wouldn't go much below 40 deg (5°C) and not for long either.

If anything, when it's well above 100 deg, road surface can easily be 20 degrees hotter meaning we lose rubber fast when under prolonged heavy stress of a spirited drive.

I can't imagine getting excellent life expectancy from Cup2's under those conditions. Having said that, I still opted for Cup2's anyway. Only time will tell.

[M2CS]

Originally Posted by ZL9M2

I can't believe we have a thread that is discussing neutering the CS, one of maybe the best BMWs ever offered, with lesser tires because those spec'd on the car might kick up a few pebbles. Warm them up a bit and go for it. If you are driving in winter, get a set of snows.

For most street use, I'd actually consider the Cup2 to be the lesser tire compared to PS4S. You'd have to be doing some serious driving on a public road to need more grip than what the PS4S provides. The Cup2s have a "long" warm up time, significantly less grip in the wet, less durability, more tramlining, and more sandblasting on your body panels. They're only a superior tire when it comes to setting lap times... not sure if you're timing the length of your trips to the store or your time on back roads.

[maxxfish]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I just got back from a 150mi trip on wet roads in 36 degree weather. The cup2s are fine after 15min of driving if you started with 50 degree ambient. It takes about 20min if starting in low 40s. This isn't from my seat of the pants test. I have the track connect sensors. The TPMS reported temps are worthless.

I'm certain the PS4S is a better tire for cold wet weather, but summer tires in cold weather, not freezing, is beginning to reach urban legend status.

If the roads aren't frozen, and your starting out with tires that aren't frozen, then don't worry about it. Just don't drive like jackass for the first 20min.



29min to get all tires into green zone. At 25min they were all about a degree low 77 degrees. This run was with almost no braking to get heat in the tires. Directly onto the highway. In town they heat up more quickly from braking. The TPMS read 60 degrees.

Dave, I looked back at some old threads and didn't find an answer: does the CS with Cup2s come with the Track Connect sensors and receiver already installed, or did you have to buy the kit and dismount/remount your tires? TIA, Max

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ZL9M2

I can't believe we have a thread that is discussing neutering the CS, one of maybe the best BMWs ever offered, with lesser tires because those spec'd on the car might kick up a few pebbles. Warm them up a bit and go for it. If you are driving in winter, get a set of snows.

Neutered:

• don't be bothered by paint patina (badges of honor);
• be bothered by a new front/rear end or clipped wheels.

Excerpt from the M2 CS Cup2 waiver (see here):

"BEFORE TAKING DELIVERY OF YOUR BMW M2 CS, PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THE FOLLOWING TIRE CHARACTERISTICS AND LIMITATIONS BY SIGNING BELOW.
The 2020- BMW M2 CS is factory-equipped with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires, 245/35 R19 front, and 265/35 R20 [typo: should be R19] rear.
These tires are optimized for performance, with extreme traction on dry roads, but have the following limitations:

• Higher tire wear which will result in shorter mileage before the minimum tread depth is reached.
• Due to the special tire tread, there is an increased risk of hydroplaning on wet or slushy roads, so reduced speed on wet or slushy roads. If you do not reduce speed, a wedge of water can form between the tires and the road surface. This state is known as hydroplaning and can result in a loss of vehicle control and a loss of braking power.
• As with all performance tires, the tire grip decreases significantly at low outside temperatures and tire operating temperatures, which may lead to loss of control of the vehicle. If you intend to drive the vehicle at outside temperatures of less than 45˚F, change to winter tires.
• Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires may also lose some of their flexibility when stored and/or operated in temperatures below 32˚F. This loss of flexibility can lead to cracking and other damage to the tires. DO NOT USE OR STORE THE TIRES IN TEMPERATURES BELOW 32˚F.
• REPLACE TIRES THAT DISPLAY ANY SIGN OF CRACKING.
• During prolonged periods of non-use or storage, Michelin recommends deflating the tires to half normal pressure and store without any load on them. Before fitting/dismounting these tires, they should be stored at a temperature of at least 68˚F until such time as the temperature of the tire has stabilized at room temperature.
• Inform all drivers who use the vehicle of these limitations.

We value you as a BMW M2 CS customer and want to provide information on the merits and the limitations of the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires, so that you can decide for yourself which tire is best suited for your driving style and climate.
I, [NAME], have read and fully understand this disclosure and wish to take delivery with the optional factory-supplied, Michelin Sport Cup 2 performance tires. I also acknowledge that I will equip my vehicle with winter tires for use in temperatures below 45˚F."

Originally Posted by M2CS

For most street use, I'd actually consider the Cup2 to be the lesser tire compared to PS4S. You'd have to be doing some serious driving on a public road to need more grip than what the PS4S provides. The Cup2s have a "long" warm up time, significantly less grip in the wet, less durability, more tramlining, and more sandblasting on your body panels. They're only a superior tire when it comes to setting lap times... not sure if you're timing the length of your trips to the store or your time on back roads.

IMHO a valid point.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by M2CS

For most street use, I'd actually consider the Cup2 to be the lesser tire compared to PS4S. You'd have to be doing some serious driving on a public road to need more grip than what the PS4S provides. The Cup2s have a "long" warm up time, significantly less grip in the wet, less durability, more tramlining, and more sandblasting on your body panels. They're only a superior tire when it comes to setting lap times... not sure if you're timing the length of your trips to the store or your time on back roads.

Absolutely this.

[Artemis]

But true that once they're properly warmed up, with mild/warm outside temperatures, on a dry road or race track, the Cup2 are king.

But also have a look here:

part 1:

part 2 - reporting a response by Michelin (bottom-line: regularly swap the front wheels between track sessions):

[mchart]

It's been beaten to death at this point, but again, pay attention to that BMW waiver for the Cup 2's. Pay attention to all the people that have ran Cup 2's before on a DAILY DRIVER. Not a weekend car. You do not want to be running these tires on a DD unless you live in area with year round 80f+ temps. Even then, be prepared for twice the replacement costs over a UHP summer tire as they just don't last.

And, IMO, I think people are risking the lives of everyone on the road if you are driving your car around with Cup 2's in sub-60f temps. Under freezing they risk cracking. Under 20f they crack without even being mounted on a car! They are hockey pucks compared to the PSS, and take forever to warm up even if it's a hot day outside.

They are the type of street legal tire that you mount on a vehicle you only drive on nice days, or a drive-to track event type tire. This is why they take so long to warm up. They are meant for the track.

As for sacrificing performance by not running something like Cup 2's or star specs on a daily driver - That's just laughable. You might as well say running an extreme category tire like the Cup 2 is sacrificing performance because you aren't running slicks. A modern UHP category tire like the Pilot Sport 4', Extreme Contact Sport, etc, all give go-to-jail levels of grip on the street as it is.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Artemis

But true that once they're properly warmed up, with mild/warm outside temperatures, on a dry road or race track, the Cup2 are king.

He showed Cup2 only 46/100ths of a second faster on a 1:16 minute course versus the PS4S. If those are valid results, something like the RE-71R and A052 will easily dust off a Cup2 (well, we already know that of course).

Also, it's unclear how the Cup2 TW180 tires compare to the Cup2 Connect240 TW240 tires at this point. The initial test data from Tirerack shows poor wet road performance and not market leading dry performance for the new 240 version. Compared to the A052, the Cup2 240 is behind in everything except their slalom test, and it is way behind on wet performance.