[CPSI90]

Originally Posted by rwemersonrw

Totally agreed. There are so many gt4 and gt3s at my club and there is no question they are better than my m2c but a lot of them, when they see me sliding around, come back and say wow that looks like so much fun. M2 requires a good to great driver; gt4 and gt3 not so much.

A mid engine balanced GT4 may not be perfect on the track.

According to this https://youtu.be/NKOlZy-Xqew?t=372

[CarJunkie]

Originally Posted by CPSI90

A mid engine balanced GT4 may not be perfect on the track.

According to this https://youtu.be/NKOlZy-Xqew?t=372

I wanted to see the wreck . . . that was very disappointing. But he does make a good point about the dynamics of weight transfer.

[LakeSurfer]

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[RPM33]

Originally Posted by cc3

M2CS is a good effort for BMW but they set the bar pretty low these days. No decent sports cars no super/ hyper car and little involvement in serious motor racing. They just turn out heavily discounted metal and rely of past glories. The M2CS is ridiculously over priced in the U.K. I have probably owned about 40 BMW's including all the M's but they do nothing for me these days. Porsche, McLaren are a different league and far more enjoyable. The forthcoming Lotus Emira will be very interesting. Problem with the Lotus is that they have 2 years worth of deposits already as it's that good

I think I know what you are saying. Currently use M2 CS as a weekend car (family reasons, use beater for daily), but I put about 500 miles a month on the CS (roughly 120 miles a weekend) so not a garage car.

I like the CS but it doesn’t have a strong sense of occasion for me. Not exotic enough. Looking for something more exotic like GT3 or even GT3 RS (GT3 RS is wishful thinking because of price and hard to get an allocation.

I’m still trying to decide how long I will keep the CS. This is my second BMW (previously had a original M2 since 2017). Definitely have zero interest in G87 M2. Car is bigger, weighs more, no DCT, and not made in home country. M4 CSL sounds decent but at the end of the day is another BMW. G87 M2 CSL is at least three years away.

Ready to get a high end Porsche such as GT3, GT3 RS, or GT4 RS. No interest in Lotus due to lack of dealers, etc. In the meantime will continue to enjoy the M2 CS even though I don’t think it is that special. Probably has something to do with me driving a M2 variant for four years now.

[johnny_slo]

When I started shopping around somewhere in April/May time, due to the Golf R project gone bad, I was first fixed on cayman GTS with the 4 pot turbo and maybe later getting a full Manthey racing upgrade pack (ca. 15k EUR, handling and brakes mods + a few other things + bragging rights). As I started looking more into my financial position, I upped the ante to a gt4, 911.2 carrera T, possibly an S, completely leaving out the 4.0 GTS, as it simply made no sense to me. However, as I was reading the test, I soon saw that the M2 CS is an absolute hoot and oh my, there was one readily available at a dealer here for a good price and with a perfect spec. I pulled the trigger in a few days.

Did I ever look back at porsche? As far as 911 is concerned - no, not at all. GT4? Yes, for sure. It is still a very very good attainable sports car for me, especially with the PDK. There is one available to buy locally at the Porsche AD. However the price and the fact that you can't go wrong with either the GT4 or the CS make me believe I made the right choice.

Additionally, there are two other reasons to go with the CS:
- it stands out less, as it's still a small BMW, majority of people, if they even know what CS is, look at prices and say ok, it's a 50-60k EUR car on the used market (it's double that in reality); still far better to park this in front of the office than a GT4;
- it is more usable for everyday

I would not mind using the GT4 at the track for a few laps, just to see the difference.

Also, what CS feature impressed me the most? The front end grip. Comparing it to Golf 7R with a lot of modifications (e.g. kw clubsport, lots of negative camber, stiffer antiroll bars, Cup2 tyres etc.) it still grips a lot better and offers better front end grip.

[baege]

My 2 cents, having owned 2 981 Cayman S's (a 2014 and a 2016) and now having an M2C, is that for a pure weekend enjoyment car that you take out in the twisties, it has to be the porsche.

There is a just a viscerality and connection in the porsche experience that isn't there with a BMW.

On the other hand, if you are looking for a fun car for all occasions, I would pick the M2. It is a little hooligan that is more fun in everday driving then the porsche which really needs the open road to shine.

[josehb]

Originally Posted by ptgltw

M2 CS pulls more G than a gt4. So much for mid engine superior talk

G has nothing to do how a car behaves around corners, and the big factor for G are the tires not the car so much, the M2 will never feel as ingaging and nimble as the 718. Light years ahead of the the M2 as a sport car.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by josehb

G has nothing to do how a car behaves around corners, and the big factor for G are the tires not the car so much, the M2 will never feel as ingaging and nimble as the 718. Light years ahead of the the M2 as a sport car.

If the 718 was light years ahead of the M2 as a sports car, you wouldn't be here comparing 718 vs M2. The constant comparisons between the Porsche and the BMW show that Porsche failed to put as much distance between their car and a "lowly" M2 as they should've been able to. The 718 makes compromises the M2 does not, yet still doesn't enjoy a huge performance or fun factor advantage.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by josehb

G has nothing to do how a car behaves around corners, and the big factor for G are the tires not the car so much, the M2 will never feel as ingaging and nimble as the 718. Light years ahead of the the M2 as a sport car.

718 GTS 4.0 ring time is 7.40
M2cs ring time is 7.42 with an off track moment.

They have similar limits, but the admittedly less drama at the limit. The drama make the CS more fun, certainly not light years behind.

The 718 GT4 runs a 7.28 ring time. That time is VERY impressive and will concede is a better sports car.

I could have purchased a GT4 but purchased a M2cs instead. As a street car the choice was easy. As a track toy, the GT4 is a weapon.

This thread is comparing GTS vs M2cs. They are both very close objectively in the hands of a good driver.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by M2CS

If the 718 was light years ahead of the M2 as a sports car, you wouldn't be here comparing 718 vs M2. The constant comparisons between the Porsche and the BMW show that Porsche failed to put as much distance between their car and a "lowly" M2 as they should've been able to. The 718 makes compromises the M2 does not, yet still doesn't enjoy a huge performance or fun factor advantage.

So many M2 fanboys here. I only own one because it has 4 seats. If you don't need a back seat, it's not that close. The CS only comes close on Cup 2 tires, but the numbers fail to tell the story in terms of feel.

[NYNick]

These comparisons always make me chuckle. They're different cars, for Pete's sake.

More times than not, it's one man's feeling toward a particular marque than anything else. Or one guy telling you how much better his car is than the other one.

Me? I like vanilla AND chocolate. It's ok to like both.

[M3R1]

I think it also needs to be said that the M2cs is being compared to the best cars available. The 718 Cayman GTS/GT4 4.0 (even the 4 cylinder GTS) are phenomenal cars. Pretty good company to be in.

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by chris719

So many M2 fanboys here. I only own one because it has 4 seats. If you don't need a back seat, it's not that close. The CS only comes close on Cup 2 tires, but the numbers fail to tell the story in terms of feel.

I have a Boxster GTS 4.0, the M2 CS blows it away in terms of feel (not even close). Can't imagine adding a roof would tranform it. Easy for me to understand why in 2020 Evo Car of the year the M2 CS won and 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 was 7th.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

I have a Boxster GTS 4.0, the M2 CS blows it away in terms of feel (not even close). Can't imagine adding a roof would tranform it. Easy for me to understand why in 2020 Evo Car of the year the M2 CS won and 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 was 7th.

Maybe you look for something else in a car than most. I don't really put much stock in magazines. If you can't imagine adding a roof would transform it, then you understand why people feel that way about the CS, too. I agree on that point, actually. I just think there is zero chance any F chassis BMW can measure up to a 718 or even 981 in the handling department based on my experience.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...s-40-compared/

C&D gave the Cayman the nod here, if we want to cherry pick reviews .

or this one

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-re...a110-s-review/

[ScullyD]

Originally Posted by chris719

Maybe you look for something else in a car than most. I don't really put much stock in magazines. If you can't imagine adding a roof would transform it, then you understand why people feel that way about the CS, too. I agree on that point, actually. I just think there is zero chance any F chassis BMW can measure up to a 718 or even 981 in the handling department based on my experience.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...s-40-compared/

C&D gave the Cayman the nod here, if we want to cherry pick reviews .

or this one

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-re...a110-s-review/

I'm not cherry picking reviews to say the 718 GTS is a worse car. I'm just saying, I understand why some people wouldn't like it over the M2 CS. For me, i'd pick the CS without question over it. Call me a BMW fanboy if thats the case, doesn't matter to you personally if i sell my 718 GTS 4.0 and keep my M2 CS.

I'm really happy with the 718 BGTS 4.0 actually, but alot of its charm for me is in there being no roof, hearing the engine note, feeling the elements since i'm not tracking either car. The manual gear ratios become a bit of a problem, just cause you end driving the car at insane speeds on regular roads just to ring it out. And at normal speeds the car can be a bit boring.

I think if you add a roof for the Cayman GTS 4.0, it becomes a car that handles really well with a great engine note, but also is a bit boring due to the light front end. The Boxster GTS 4.0 adds some flex to the chassis that probably comes out well on the road, you can do some cool slides and just generally enjoy the car more on street. I suspect the Cayman GTS is probably much more composed and focused than the Boxster GTS 4.0 version.

I think if you add the GT3 front end as it it is in the GT4/Spyder, you remove some of the lightness and refocus the front end, but you add some ride quality compromises (and usability, the Spyder roof is rough to live with on the road). Plus you still have the gear ratio issue. I'd really like to try the GT4 with a PDK though, i think its probably the best of all the 718s you can have (before the GT4 RS).

But the M2 CS has the torque to be enjoyable at low speeds, the front end is insanely good and focused so the steering is immediate (compared to the 718 GTS) and the ride quality is still great. Its just the more memorable car to me. I don't buy cars just cause they are NA and rev to 8k because i've owned a few of those over the years, its not a defining reason to buy a car.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by ScullyD

But the M2 CS has the torque to be enjoyable at low speeds, the front end is insanely good and focused so the steering is immediate (compared to the 718 GTS) and the ride quality is still great. Its just the more memorable car to me. I don't buy cars just cause they are NA and rev to 8k because i've owned a few of those over the years, its not a defining reason to buy a car.

I could have got the cayman Gt4 and this was the exact reason I went with the CS. If I wanted a pure track car then the GT4 would have stacked up. I test drove the GTS and it felt quite muted. The CS was just what I wanted as a spirited daily. Very happy with that choice and can see why many have chosen it over the caymans for that reason.

[baege]

so I just recently made the move from a 2020 M2C manual to a 2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6MT

I've only put 200km on the gts 4.0 and I coming from a M2C not a CS but these my initial thoughts on the 2 as road cars FWIW

First off I think a huge factor in what car will work better for you is whether you have a preference for normally aspirated engines.

I have always had that preference. I enjoy the connection and immediacy of an NA engine. I chose an e86 3.0si over a 135i back in the day because of this. The 135i was way faster but the connection with the n52 meant more to me.

Just driving with 1/2 throttle at most and keeping the revs under 4000 rpm (break in) I can already tell the 4.0 is a masterpiece of an NA engine. Instant buttery power even at low rpm. The throttle response is electric. The engine makes me giggle like a school girl when I give it a little more throttle and the car immediately responds and the symposer lets the induction nose into the cabin.

So for me the 4.0 settles the debate between the 2, even in CS tune the S55 wouldn't compare to the 4.0 FOR ME given my NA preference.

However if that 4.0 were available (or even an NA BMW inline six that made good low end torque) in the M2 CS, I would likely pick that car.

The M2 is just much more accessible easier fun than the GTS4.0 as a road car. You can get it in easy, you can see out of it well, you don't have to worry about clearance issues, people don't hate on you with their eyes.

The GTS4.0 is just more of a chore to drive in so many ways. It may be more of an event in some ways, but it's also more of a chore. Just so much more to be careful and worry about. It also has a clinical nature to its handling that makes it less fun around town than the M2 which has a really fun way of rotating around you when take the curves.

I miss the easy fun of my M2C, especially in the city I live in which makes a low car with poor visibility and clearance even more of a chore.

But it's that engine that I can't get enough of...put that engine in the M2 chassis and I would pick it over the GTS 4.0 no question for a road car.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by baege

so I just recently made the move from a 2020 M2C manual to a 2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6MT

I've only put 200km on the gts 4.0 and I coming from a M2C not a CS but these my initial thoughts on the 2 as road cars FWIW

First off I think a huge factor in what car will work better for you is whether you have a preference for normally aspirated engines.

I have always had that preference. I enjoy the connection and immediacy of an NA engine. I chose an e86 3.0si over a 135i back in the day because of this. The 135i was way faster but the connection with the n52 meant more to me.

Just driving with 1/2 throttle at most and keeping the revs under 4000 rpm (break in) I can already tell the 4.0 is a masterpiece of an NA engine. Instant buttery power even at low rpm. The throttle response is electric. The engine makes me giggle like a school girl when I give it a little more throttle and the car immediately responds and the symposer lets the induction nose into the cabin.

So for me the 4.0 settles the debate between the 2, even in CS tune the S55 wouldn't compare to the 4.0 FOR ME given my NA preference.

However if that 4.0 were available (or even an NA BMW inline six that made good low end torque) in the M2 CS, I would likely pick that car.

The M2 is just much more accessible easier fun than the GTS4.0 as a road car. You can get it in easy, you can see out of it well, you don't have to worry about clearance issues, people don't hate on you with their eyes.

The GTS4.0 is just more of a chore to drive in so many ways. It may be more of an event in some ways, but it's also more of a chore. Just so much more to be careful and worry about. It also has a clinical nature to its handling that makes it less fun around town than the M2 which has a really fun way of rotating around you when take the curves.

I miss the easy fun of my M2C, especially in the city I live in which makes a low car with poor visibility and clearance even more of a chore.

But it's that engine that I can't get enough of...put that engine in the M2 chassis and I would pick it over the GTS 4.0 no question for a road car.

Beautiful car! Good luck to you sir!

[Peterometer]

Enjoy it! The GT4 is a really fantastic car!