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      09-27-2020, 11:45 AM   #23
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Why don't we ask OP what his preferences are? Not everyone is about that "best" possible initial bite.

On my OG M2 I run akebonos since it's my daily. The brake performance is only barely less than stock pads. But it comes with almost zero dust. No noise. Trade off is 150% worth it.
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      09-27-2020, 12:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
In principle you are right. However, in my experience, many aftermarket pads (especially ceramic) don't have good enough initial bite and I have experienced some interesting delayed-braking effects, especially on my Mazda, when the rotors are wet and cold with Hawk pads.

They will ultimately work with enough pedal force, obviously, but there are reasons that OEMs use pads like these, it's not purely a cost motivation.
Many years ago I had some issues with low-cost pads for my daily, but was very surprised at how well the Duralast performed on my Acura TL.

With items as inexpensive and easy to replace as pads, I say don't knock it until you try it.

I have an OG M2, and I'm quite happy with the performance of the Akebono's, but had the G-Loc's been available, that's what I would have chosen. Fantastic pads. I use them as my street pad on my Exige.
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      09-27-2020, 12:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Why don't we ask OP what his preferences are? Not everyone is about that "best" possible initial bite.

On my OG M2 I run akebonos since it's my daily. The brake performance is only barely less than stock pads. But it comes with almost zero dust. No noise. Trade off is 150% worth it.
It sounds like Akebonos are what I'm looking for... Any idea if they're made for the M2C sizes?
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      09-27-2020, 02:07 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by samsamdar View Post
It sounds like Akebonos are what I'm looking for... Any idea if they're made for the M2C sizes?
Doesn't seem like they have anything available for your 2NH brakes. I think your best bet would be to find a ceramic based pad. I believe Hawk has one that fits the 2NH brakes but I have no personal experience with those.
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      09-27-2020, 06:21 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Doesn't seem like they have anything available for your 2NH brakes. I think your best bet would be to find a ceramic based pad. I believe Hawk has one that fits the 2NH brakes but I have no personal experience with those.
What's the advantage of a ceramic pad (sorry I'm not very well versed with brake pads)?
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      09-27-2020, 06:24 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsamdar View Post
What's the advantage of a ceramic pad (sorry I'm not very well versed with brake pads)?
Low dust is the only consistent advantage.

If noise is your only concern, I still think OEM is going to be a good option. The shims and pad shapes on aftermarket pads are very inconsistent and not always designed for lowest noise. I had no noise on the M2C I drove, but if the stock pads are known to be noisy then maybe you can improve on that, but usually BMW steel brakes are dead quiet. You might find one that improves it, but you'll be rolling the dice.
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      09-27-2020, 08:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Low dust is the only consistent advantage.
And they don't eat rotors. The stock pads will kill the stock rotors three times as fast.
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      09-27-2020, 08:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
And they don't eat rotors. The stock pads will kill the stock rotors three times as fast.
It's generally true, but I'm not sure it's true for Hawk, for example. There is no reason that you can't make a high mu NAO pad.

I'm also not sure that you can definitely say that the stock pads eat rotors or that the dust is the rotor. You have no data, not even anecdotal as I understand it because the 2NH pads are not the same as the blue brakes. I usually replace rotors and pads at the same time anyway.

You might be right, but you can't speak with this level of certainty.
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      09-27-2020, 08:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
It's generally true, but I'm not sure it's true for Hawk, for example. There is no reason that you can't make a high mu NAO pad.

I'm also not sure that you can definitely say that the stock pads eat rotors or that the dust is the rotor. You have no data, not even anecdotal as I understand it because the 2NH pads are not the same as the blue brakes. I usually replace rotors and pads at the same time anyway.

You might be right, but you can't speak with this level of certainty.
I know it to be true of the blue brakes, I just thought the pad material was the same on the 2NH.

But in general, manufacturers put rotor-killing pads on their cars for numbers, and outright performance at the expense of rotor longevity. And if you're driving the car aggressively all the time, then it's needed on such a powerful car. But if you intend, like many do, to drive the car on the street (and in a spirited but not stupid manner), then true, single-duty, street ceramics generally give you double the life of your rotor. On the OG M2, that's triple.

But yes, I'm speaking a bit out of turn for the M2C pads, as I don't know what they really are made of, or if they're as absolute rotor-killers like the OG's are.
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      09-27-2020, 10:52 PM   #32
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Friend swapped out the Blue brakes on his M3 ZCP with the 2NH red.

Check out the difference in size between the 2NH & OG. The 2NH pads have literally twice the surface area.
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      09-28-2020, 04:00 AM   #33
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We should reach out to Akebono to get the ball rolling in creating a set for us!
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      09-28-2020, 02:39 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by mikeyymonster View Post
We should reach out to Akebono to get the ball rolling in creating a set for us!
Agreed! We need more great pads for the 2NH brakes!
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      09-30-2020, 09:43 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmic Man View Post
Check out the difference in size between the 2NH & OG. The 2NH pads have literally twice the surface area.

Wow! That is impressive!

Now I understand why it is the first steel brake rotors on BMW, which I didn’t manage to kill for the first season (used to be the case with all other M cars in the past)
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      09-30-2020, 12:33 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
I think you've lost your way. This isn't the racing forum. The stock pads EAT rotors to get numbers, and the additional dust is literally the rotor. Absolutely terrible street pad.
Here's my opinion, which is worth exactly what you paid for it.

My M2C with 2NH (for my ROW friends), has about 17.5k miles is at about 35mm front rotor thickness. According to the stamping on the rotor, minimum thickness is 34.4mm. Of the miles I've driven, all but the past 1k miles have been on OEM rotors. The last 1k have been on DS2500.

I have done two HPDEs at Mid Ohio. Each one over two days with 3-4 20 minute sessions. With better fluid, of course.

My first HPDE there was on stack pads and I had zero issues with fade or anything else, even street driving after. I am not a hotshot track star and am probably more likely to overuse brakes due to my experience.

What I have learned is the OEM pads are pretty aggressive on the rotors and judging by the constant cleaning work on my wheels, quite dusty. European cars seem to be generally this way.

Maybe there are other factors I haven't considered but that much wear in this mileage is more than I care to haven even with the great performance they provide. The DS2500 are marginally better *in my use case*. I have found they can feel a somewhat softer with heavier use.
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      09-30-2020, 12:58 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got f1? View Post
Here's my opinion, which is worth exactly what you paid for it.

My M2C with 2NH (for my ROW friends), has about 17.5k miles is at about 35mm front rotor thickness. According to the stamping on the rotor, minimum thickness is 34.4mm. Of the miles I've driven, all but the past 1k miles have been on OEM rotors. The last 1k have been on DS2500.

I have done two HPDEs at Mid Ohio. Each one over two days with 3-4 20 minute sessions. With better fluid, of course.

My first HPDE there was on stack pads and I had zero issues with fade or anything else, even street driving after. I am not a hotshot track star and am probably more likely to overuse brakes due to my experience.

What I have learned is the OEM pads are pretty aggressive on the rotors and judging by the constant cleaning work on my wheels, quite dusty. European cars seem to be generally this way.

Maybe there are other factors I haven't considered but that much wear in this mileage is more than I care to haven even with the great performance they provide. The DS2500 are marginally better *in my use case*. I have found they can feel a somewhat softer with heavier use.
This is exactly what I was saying.

The 2NH brakes/pads are superior to the blue brakes/pads for double duty.

But both eat rotors.

Pads are so cheap, and so easy to replace, that it makes sense (IMO) to have a street set and a race set to get the best of both worlds, and the most out of the rotors.
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      09-30-2020, 02:42 PM   #38
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BTW here is the difference in size:


M2C brake pads vs 991.2 GT3 brake pads

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      09-30-2020, 08:08 PM   #39
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This thread is full of fail. Surface area of a pad and size of the caliper has literally nothing to do with performance on the street. Literally nothing.

Bigger brakes on a street car are there for looks and looks only. Rotor/pad compound determine how well your brakes bite, dust, and perform on the street. Period. Brake fluid, bias, chassis setup, etc. have a lot more influence on braking performance than the number of pistons in your caliper or the diameter of your rotor. The only time rotor and pad size matters is during heat dissipation and if you desire more even pad wear. However, on the street, you will NEVER get the brakes hot enough for this to come into play, EVER.

The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding.
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      09-30-2020, 08:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
This is exactly what I was saying.

The 2NH brakes/pads are superior to the blue brakes/pads for double duty.

But both eat rotors.

Pads are so cheap, and so easy to replace, that it makes sense (IMO) to have a street set and a race set to get the best of both worlds, and the most out of the rotors.
False. They are not superior on the street. You believe they are superior because they are bigger and better looking. You have no data showing that the M2C brakes actually perform better on the street ***due to size***.
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      09-30-2020, 08:19 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got f1? View Post
Here's my opinion, which is worth exactly what you paid for it.

My M2C with 2NH (for my ROW friends), has about 17.5k miles is at about 35mm front rotor thickness. According to the stamping on the rotor, minimum thickness is 34.4mm. Of the miles I've driven, all but the past 1k miles have been on OEM rotors. The last 1k have been on DS2500.

I have done two HPDEs at Mid Ohio. Each one over two days with 3-4 20 minute sessions. With better fluid, of course.

My first HPDE there was on stack pads and I had zero issues with fade or anything else, even street driving after. I am not a hotshot track star and am probably more likely to overuse brakes due to my experience.

What I have learned is the OEM pads are pretty aggressive on the rotors and judging by the constant cleaning work on my wheels, quite dusty. European cars seem to be generally this way.

Maybe there are other factors I haven't considered but that much wear in this mileage is more than I care to haven even with the great performance they provide. The DS2500 are marginally better *in my use case*. I have found they can feel a somewhat softer with heavier use.
That's not saying much.

What is your track experience? - Never heard of stock BMW pads not fading at the track, unless you're a total novice. Even then, you would be the first person in history whose stock BMW pads didn't fade at all while tracking the car. And let's not forget that M2C is not a lightweight car by any stretch.

If you think the stock pads are aggressive on the rotors, get yourself a set of track pads and see what happens. And no, DS2500 pads are NOT race pads lol. The DS3000 are.
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      09-30-2020, 09:46 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j23 View Post
That's not saying much.

What is your track experience? - Never heard of stock BMW pads not fading at the track, unless you're a total novice. Even then, you would be the first person in history whose stock BMW pads didn't fade at all while tracking the car. And let's not forget that M2C is not a lightweight car by any stretch.

If you think the stock pads are aggressive on the rotors, get yourself a set of track pads and see what happens. And no, DS2500 pads are NOT race pads lol. The DS3000 are.
I was pretty clear on my track experience which is to say not a lot. What I said was I did one weekend on them without issue, with an instructor in the car with me. He agreed they appeared to hold up well. My lap times were in line with others in same group.

The DS 2500 were simply a good deal 2nd hand and I wanted to try them for my daily use. My point is that in 17.5k miles, one track weekend with OEM pads and one with DS 2500, my rotors will need to be replaced soon. The rest is my opinion based on the experience I laid out.

Not saying you are wrong in your experience, not saying it wouldn't be better with track pads. Not sure why your are being aggressive and LOLing with your responses. Not sure I am the first person in history either with this opinion. Hiring the track serious, then R compound tires and track pads with the proper brake fluid is the way to go. That's not me. One or two events a year is all I do and that setup is adequate for my experience level.

Hope you understand my perspective.

Just contributing my experience which is what a forum like this is for. Different opinions to help people make up their own minds. If it were all fact, we'd just read the book and not need a forum.
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      09-30-2020, 10:33 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got f1? View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by j23 View Post
That's not saying much.

What is your track experience? - Never heard of stock BMW pads not fading at the track, unless you're a total novice. Even then, you would be the first person in history whose stock BMW pads didn't fade at all while tracking the car. And let's not forget that M2C is not a lightweight car by any stretch.

If you think the stock pads are aggressive on the rotors, get yourself a set of track pads and see what happens. And no, DS2500 pads are NOT race pads lol. The DS3000 are.
I was pretty clear on my track experience which is to say not a lot. What I said was I did one weekend on them without issue, with an instructor in the car with me. He agreed they appeared to hold up well. My lap times were in line with others in same group.

The DS 2500 were simply a good deal 2nd hand and I wanted to try them for my daily use. My point is that in 17.5k miles, one track weekend with OEM pads and one with DS 2500, my rotors will need to be replaced soon. The rest is my opinion based on the experience I laid out.

Not saying you are wrong in your experience, not saying it wouldn't be better with track pads. Not sure why your are being aggressive and LOLing with your responses. Not sure I am the first person in history either with this opinion. Hiring the track serious, then R compound tires and track pads with the proper brake fluid is the way to go. That's not me. One or two events a year is all I do and that setup is adequate for my experience level.

Hope you understand my perspective.

Just contributing my experience which is what a forum like this is for. Different opinions to help people make up their own minds. If it were all fact, we'd just read the book and not need a forum.
I never said I disagreed with you. I'm saying your experience is anecdotal and you have shown nothing to reach the conclusion that the stock pads are too aggressive on the rotors.

Too aggressive relative to which pad exactly? And by how much? Are you saying you would have gotten thousands more miles out of the rotors if they were paired with DS2500 pads?

There are way too many factors at play here. The narrative in this thread is that "stock pads eat through rotors like crazy". Yet, nobody has shown what exactly that means or how much they can increase rotor life by switching to less aggressive pads.

Fact of the matter is that stock pads are still 10 times less aggressive than most race pads. Race pads will eat through your rotor quicker than you can imagine. In all likelihood, race pads won't get a chance to eat through the stock rotors before they crack from heat due to being cross-drilled - the worst type of rotor for heavy track use.

Point being people here are exaggerating how abrasive the stock pads are. We are talking about negligible differences at best between stock pads and other street pads when it comes to preserving the rotors. But what is immediately noticeable is the bite. That's truly how braking "performance" is measured on the street car.. in terms of bite. Some street pads need a lot longer to bite well when applied. And by a lot longer, I mean milliseconds, which actually makes a difference when stopping. Some work better at temp vs others. I maintain that stock pads have the best cold bite I ever felt. Much better cold bite than the DS2500.

Of course everyone can determine what level of bite is acceptable to them and compromise on pads in one area or another (such as less dust). That's irrelevant. The problem is (a) people associate bigger brakes with better braking on the street, (b) think stock pads are track friendly, and (c) stock rotors get eaten by stock pads much quicker than other pads, all of which are false, unsubstantiated claims.



Edit: And BTW, the stock pads will fade or melt after a few laps in intermediate or advanced session within just a few hard laps. Since you're a beginner and driving with an instructor, then you're not doing hard laps. Riding the brakes doesn't necessarily imply that you're building enough heat into them. Some people can brake much later and from higher speed, which will fade the stock pads almost instantly. Track layout also plays a factor, but generally speaking, stock brakes are not at all suitable for any serious track duty.
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      10-01-2020, 04:26 AM   #44
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For those, who are really hard on the brakes 2NH does matter and they are way better in comparison to standard blue brakes in terms of resistance to overheating.

Do you need racing brake pads and fluid If you push the car hard? Absolutely yes - it goes without saying. But the rotors from blue brakes are really insufficient and the 2NH are good enough.
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