[6speed_M2]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

My question is; how much money do you have in your power modifications.

Anyone can get 500 whp easily with the N55 M2, but at what cost?

For reference, standard Stage 2 (CDP/IC/CP/BM3) is roughly $2500

Catless downpipe is a great bang for the buck. The smell at this point is a turn off for me so I'd go for a high flow cat. It doesn't have to be the HJS or Fabspeed either. I'd assume the rest do the job just as well.

I've ran the catless downpipe & the primary gain for me, other then the cost savings, is the sound. The high flow cat still has decent sound improvements & throttle response isn't much different.

You can run the E30+ map on BM3 with a TMAP sensor which isn't expensive, maybe colder plugs, & a HPFP upgrade which would cost around $1500. That should be for ethanol contents above 4 gallons.

The base E30 map which is for 3.5-4 gallons of ethanol can run with the stock HPFP from what I understand (I'd double check this). That map is about 420whp & 440wtq from what I remember (I dyno'd it).

You could skip the HPFP upgrade & use a race gas map with the stage 2 set up you listed & achieve the same power goals as the E30+ map.

On my set up (minus the high flow cat + MPE) the main differences are the Dorch stage 2 HPFP (I run ethanol blends of 5 gallons to a full tank entirely), the bend calibration flex fuel kit/ethanol filter + sensor (I believe it's about $1000-1500).

You're looking at an extra $2500-3000 for my setup versus your stage 2. I'm basically on ethanol maps 7 out of 8 weeks (I do a full pump gas tank inbetween 4 tanks of ethanol to flush the ethanol) so I skip out on running race gas at $10 a gallon.

If you do the math on our 12 gallon tank at $10 a gallon for 100 octane, you're looking at 25 tanks of race gas before you reach $3000. Seeing as I daily my car, it would take me about 6 months to reach $3000 on fuel for race gas.

I know my example is kind of weird at best, but I wanted to put things in some what of a relatable perspective.

I could see the base stage 2 list you mentioned being more then enough & maybe getting a race gas map with the stock fuel systems & having something fun to play with every now & then. You definitely don't need to be running race gas consistently. The fun part about ethanol is you can.

[6speed_M2]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

@wolfman'sbrother This is great feedback, thanks. Would you bother with a stage 1 tune + IC or would you just go FBO?

6speed_M2 Do you mind sharing a parts list on your current build?

Thanks!

Parts list

AFE intake (open box)
Pure inlet
Wagner EVO II (I don't track my car, occasionally mild canyon driving has been fine thus far. Under 80 degrees tested)
Chargepipes
TMAP sensor
Coil packs
Colder & gapped spark plugs
Dorch stage 2 HPFP
Bend calibration flex fuel filter/sensor
HJS 300 high flow cat
M Performance exhaust (open flaps gave me 7whp gain) haha
ECUTek software tuned by Bend Calibration

[6speed_M2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I'm just going to repeat my warning on the Evo 2 here. It's adequate for Stage2, it's not adequate for a PS2 or Stage 2+. Keep in mind per Wagner, the Performance 2 (which they no longer sell) cooled better.

Per Wagner's own test, the difference between their intercoolers was 1hp - so none of them are out flowing another to any real objective benefit.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1862698

Take a look at this thread - good idea on how the Wagner holds up (and this is the 'better' performance model)

I would also recommend MHD over BM3. It's cheaper, and if you go with a custom tune, that price difference can go towards the tune. It's also load based and more 'consistent' compared to BM3. I have one from Bob at Stage FP (formerly the tuner at BPC) and I love it - solid pull towards redline, unlike the OTS (off the shelf) tunes from BM3/MHD which peak around 5500, and fall off by 6000RPM.

Otherwise it's your preference.

I haven't tracked my car, but I have went on some spirited canyon drives with temps of 80 degrees. On pump gas & ethanol my logs seemed to be fine from what I remember & the input of my tuner. It should be noted that I don't drive very aggressively & my car is somewhat detuned from its max potential.

Where would you noticed the faults of the wager II intercooler or most other stage 2 intercoolers?

Does it have to be above 90 degrees when you're canyoning? Does temp even matter? (It'll overheat regardless of tune/weather if you drive hard) or is it only when you're pounding the car for 20min+ on the track/canyon?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

I haven't tracked my car, but I have went on some spirited canyon drives with temps of 80 degrees. On pump gas & ethanol my logs seemed to be fine from what I remember & the input of my tuner. It should be noted that I don't drive very aggressively & my car is somewhat detuned from its max potential.

Where would you noticed the faults of the wager II intercooler or most other stage 2 intercoolers?

Does it have to be above 90 degrees when you're canyoning? Does temp even matter? (It'll overheat regardless of tune/weather if you drive hard) or is it only when you're pounding the car for 20min+ on the track/canyon?

I think you posted a log a bit ago? (Or was it Visual Echo) and gave a review on your usage? I apologize if it wasn’t you, I’m on my phone so I can’t check.

You’ll really notice it in 2 areas: high ambient temperatures and/or hard driving. Running E85 helps out, but having a good core does wonders for response and consistency.

What would happen? Just power loss really. The car will dial back timing and add more fuel to keep things cool, and prevent knock. I think the thread I linked to illustrated that well. Per the dyno, the car was losing 30whp? I believe, putting him right back at stock Powerlevels.

The Wagner would be fine for your useage, but on the F30 side, there was a few guys in Europe who struggled with IAT issues on the Evo2 and PS2. I know everyone here cares about quality and response - so I’ll point out that there are a few players who offer a good quality intercooler - and the Race cores from revives (i haven’t installed mine yet) don’t diminish throttle response at all.

[Wolfman’s Brother]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

@wolfman'sbrother This is great feedback, thanks. Would you bother with a stage 1 tune + IC or would you just go FBO?

Thanks!

When you go in to start replacing stuff do it once. No sense in doing the same jobs twice.

I ran the BM3 stage 1 tune with no other mods to satisfy the itch, but was risking cracking the stock charge pipe. I said F it and took the risk, and won.

Decide what power you’re after and what you want to do with the car, do a ton of research, and then get after it.

Reliability hasn’t been a focus of this thread but it’s worth appreciating that the further you go from stock, the more potential for issues. That’s what stopping me from moving up in power. If you’re set on replacing the turbo, know that upgrading the HPFP is part of the deal and you could easily be the next gent creating a thread about weird noises or startup issues because modified.

Nothing stings worse then dropping the cash only to end up with a bs issue that prevents you from fully enjoying your M2 which was actually pretty fun stock.

[-Eidos]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

@-edios I only have access to 92 octane.

That will be an issue. I recommend going FBO and going with a stage 1 turbo like the Dinan or TTE 460 and going with a custom tune to take full advantage of your limited fueling.

Until you get access to either ethanol or race gas, I wouldn't entertain going with a stage 2 turbo or beyond.

[AmuroRay]

The Dinan is cheap, but it really doesn't offer too much more than the stock turbo.

[SebsM2]

I want to throw something in the ring that hasn't been addressed. I've just gone through a series of performance upgrades and I'm currently getting tuned for a Garrett 3076 turbo.

This is my first car build so I've learned a lot of stuff for the next build. I've realized that the things you touch and hear make the car more enjoyable. That leads me to my favorite mod thus far (besides the turbo lol).. I picked up a set of recaro pole positions and I couldn't believe the difference in driver engagement. Of course, it's complete placebo but being able to focus on driving instead of bracing against the door card makes the feel much faster.

These guys that have been contributing to the thread have helped me out several times over the last year and they're leading you down a great modding path. Good luck and have fun OP.

[cplay4me]

SebsM2

Awesome, thanks for the input!

Sadly, I might be selling the M2. After staring down the costs, considering how well the car physically fits me and seriously considering the type of driving I'm most likely to do, I'm wondering if it's not quite the right car. If I do decide to let it go, that will be a bummer as I was very excited to get a manual M2 after driving the DCT. I haven't found the manual quite as comfortable to drive, and the car is really too much to test on backroads. With the closest real track over 4 hours away, it may not be the right fit.

Hopefully I can find a buyer if I head this way .

[123Britt]

WOW! How things change so quickly.

Originally Posted by cplay4me

SebsM2

Awesome, thanks for the input!

Sadly, I might be selling the M2. After staring down the costs, considering how well the car physically fits me and seriously considering the type of driving I'm most likely to do, I'm wondering if it's not quite the right car. If I do decide to let it go, that will be a bummer as I was very excited to get a manual M2 after driving the DCT. I haven't found the manual quite as comfortable to drive, and the car is really too much to test on backroads. With the closest real track over 4 hours away, it may not be the right fit.

Hopefully I can find a buyer if I head this way .

[Saanen]

I slowly upgraded my M2 which I love and plan on keeping as my last internal combustion engine vehicle. As I did each mod I tracked it. No dyno, just track time...in reflection I would suggest for the most bang for your buck = a high quality intercooler upgrade, a high flow cat; (ideally 300 cell HJS) and a OTS tune (ie BM3) ....

[cplay4me]

Originally Posted by Saanen

I slowly upgraded my M2 which I love and plan on keeping as my last internal combustion engine vehicle. As I did each mod I tracked it. No dyno, just track time...in reflection I would suggest for the most bang for your buck = a high quality intercooler upgrade, a high flow cat; (ideally 300 cell HJS) and a OTS tune (ie BM3) ....

how about a 200 CEL HJS cat? Remus or fabspeed downpipe...?

[Saanen]

Absolutely, I kind of miss my 200 cell; the sound is really awesome and that is now a bit muted with my 300 cell (I have no idea on the difference between HJS and Remus)...but for me the 300 cell makes more sense given our quiet neighborhood and the likelihood of passing smog inspection in the ever increasing scrutiny in California. Either way going to one or the other will give you a nice bump in HP!!!

[cplay4me]

Originally Posted by Saanen

Absolutely, I kind of miss my 200 cell; the sound is really awesome and that is now a bit muted with my 300 cell (I have no idea on the difference between HJS and Remus)...but for me the 300 cell makes more sense given our quiet neighborhood and the likelihood of passing smog inspection in the ever increasing scrutiny in California. Either way going to one or the other will give you a nice bump in HP!!!

Appreciate the input. I currently have the car up for sale, but am continuing to enjoy it through mods. If I sell it great, if not, I'll enjoy it more .

After all the great info on the forum and this thread specifically, I decided to go with the following mods to start:

MST V2 turbo inlet
Wagner evo II comp IC
chargepipe & boost pipes
Bootmod3 OTS stage 1 tune
Turbosmart vr11 BOV

I'll enjoy the car like that for awhile and see where I'd like to go. This might very well be enough, but we'll see. I'm limited to 91 octane maps or a custom tune (I have 92 octane in OR), so I'm always going to be capped in my potential without figuring out a fuel plan. I can't even find e85 where I am in Southern Oregon.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

Appreciate the input. I currently have the car up for sale, but am continuing to enjoy it through mods. If I sell it great, if not, I'll enjoy it more .

After all the great info on the forum and this thread specifically, I decided to go with the following mods to start:

MST V2 turbo inlet
Wagner evo II comp IC
chargepipe & boost pipes
Bootmod3 OTS stage 1 tune
Turbosmart vr11 BOV

I'll enjoy the car like that for awhile and see where I'd like to go. This might very well be enough, but we'll see. I'm limited to 91 octane maps or a custom tune (I have 92 octane in OR), so I'm always going to be capped in my potential without figuring out a fuel plan. I can't even find e85 where I am in Southern Oregon.

Just do a BMS or the like intercooler, it will function almost exactly the same and cost less than half as much. No issues with lag, drivability or anything else.

The BM3 SG1 tune is weaker (on the top end) than stock but makes a little more torque. I would shoot for the Stage 2 91/ACN tune.

[cplay4me]

@amuroRay

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Just do a BMS or the like intercooler, it will function almost exactly the same and cost less than half as much. No issues with lag, drivability or anything else.

The BM3 SG1 tune is weaker (on the top end) than stock but makes a little more torque. I would shoot for the Stage 2 91/ACN tune.

I already got a wagner evo comp II IC that I paid $550 for.

No stage 2 issues with stock DP? I actually read a few places that didn't need to be changed for stage 2, but you leave power on the table (which I'm ok with right now).

Why the stage 2 91ACN tune vs a stage 2 91 Tune if I've got 92 octane gas?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

@amuroRay



I already got a wagner evo comp II IC that I paid $550 for.

No stage 2 issues with stock DP? I actually read a few places that didn't need to be changed for stage 2, but you leave power on the table (which I'm ok with right now).

Why the stage 2 91ACN tune vs a stage 2 91 Tune if I've got 92 octane gas?

The ACN tunes are typically for poor fuel quality.

Whoops, I missed that you didn't put a downpipe on there. If you plan on staying with stage 1 and have NOT bought a tune yet, you can consider MHD, who do offer a Stage 2 tune that can be run without a downpipe.

I know that the stage 1 MHD tune makes good power:

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1646016

On BM3 the stage 1 tune makes more torque, but actually makes less peak and overall power when compared to stock.

[cplay4me]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The ACN tunes are typically for poor fuel quality.

Whoops, I missed that you didn't put a downpipe on there. If you plan on staying with stage 1 and have NOT bought a tune yet, you can consider MHD, who do offer a Stage 2 tune that can be run without a downpipe.

I know that the stage 1 MHD tune makes good power:

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1646016

On BM3 the stage 1 tune makes more torque, but actually makes less peak and overall power when compared to stock.

So you would use a low-end 91 tune even if I'm putting 92 octane gas in the tank over a standard 91 tune?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

So you would use a low-end 91 tune even if I'm putting 92 octane gas in the tank over a standard 91 tune?

You would want to log to verify the fuel quality and which tune you should run. You can start with Stage 1 91, and if you have too many corrections, move down to Stage 1 ACN.

My understanding (and I live in FL) is that the fuel quality on the west coast isn't the best, but I'll leave that to people who live out there.

[cplay4me]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You would want to log to verify the fuel quality and which tune you should run. You can start with Stage 1 91, and if you have too many corrections, move down to Stage 1 ACN.

My understanding (and I live in FL) is that the fuel quality on the west coast isn't the best, but I'll leave that to people who live out there.

Here's a shorter logs. I haven't reviewed yet but would be curious to get input on whether anything looks odd.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61d0...0b43596252081a

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by cplay4me

Here's a shorter logs. I haven't reviewed yet but would be curious to get input on whether anything looks odd.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=61d0...0b43596252081a

Looks alright, but I see the throttle is not opening up until later - any wheel slip? They could be using the throttle to control a bit of the overboost at low RPM.

The timing looks good in the high RPM region as well, with no corrections.

[cplay4me]

Appreciate the input. There was quite possibly a little wheel slip but I don't totally recall.

Out of curiosity, did you notice any sound change when you used the AFE dryflow filter? I'd like a little more intake noise but don't want to dump money into replace the whole thing if it's not necessary...especially just for noise.