[mcvaughan]

Anyone running COTA with Edge Addicts tomorrow? Running in the dark with the lights up should be a hoot!

[OG Shark]

We will be out there but in the M3 to get some testing in. Really looking forward to the night driving!

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

We will be out there but in the M3 to get some testing in. Really looking forward to the night driving!

Agreed! Should be a cool experience

[M1500Z]

Wish I'd seen this. I was out there fahrting around. Definitely a fun time. Did the track feel greasy or was that just me?

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

Wish I'd seen this. I was out there fahrting around. Definitely a fun time. Did the track feel greasy or was that just me?

It was definitely greasy later in the day, but felt nice after the sun went down. Night mode was awesome.

[OG Shark]

The night driving was awesome. Been wanting to do that for a long time - definitely worth it!

Was interesting going from brake just inside the 150m board to now just inside the 4th board. I have always just used the numbers on the boards as reference - never had to count them like that since I could barely see the numbers now. Some pretty serious over braking at the beginning but got better towards the end

[mcvaughan]

Using the tower as a point of reference on the back straight

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

Using the tower as a point of reference on the back straight

Using the tower - I like it.

We had a successful test of our offroad inspired light setup

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Using the tower - I like it.

We had a successful test of our offroad inspired light setup

That has "move over" written all over it.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

It was definitely greasy later in the day, but felt nice after the sun went down. Night mode was awesome.

I really enjoyed it later in the day. Ran a new PR in the 4th session so a combo of factors seemed to work in my favor. I kind of forgot I was on brand new tires (one of which was literally just installed) and I think that led to those early sessions being little loose.

Originally Posted by OG Shark

The night driving was awesome. Been wanting to do that for a long time - definitely worth it!

Was interesting going from brake just inside the 150m board to now just inside the 4th board. I have always just used the numbers on the boards as reference - never had to count them like that since I could barely see the numbers now. Some pretty serious over braking at the beginning but got better towards the end

I don't have the tire to brake at 150, but I do know that just before the 200 there is a light post so I was using that as my reference. I was very surprised to find out the numbers aren't reflective as well ��.

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Using the tower - I like it.

We had a successful test of our offroad inspired light setup

[photo of car with off-road lights]

Those little side lights look like they would light the apexes nicely. I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of driving by memory and realized once a car in gets in front of you, even more concentration is required as most references are eliminated—I chuckled watching cars go way off line at 10, 15, and 20, and have people behind just follow them.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

I really enjoyed it later in the day. Ran a new PR in the 4th session so a combo of factors seemed to work in my favor. I kind of forgot I was on brand new tires (one of which was literally just installed) and I think that led to those early sessions being little loose.



I don't have the tire to brake at 150, but I do know that just before the 200 there is a light post so I was using that as my reference. I was very surprised to find out the numbers aren't reflective as well ��.



Those little side lights look like they would light the apexes nicely. I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge of driving by memory and realized once a car in gets in front of you, even more concentration is required as most references are eliminated—I chuckled watching cars go way off line at 10, 15, and 20, and have people behind just follow them.

So with the white group we ended up going out 3x in the dark - our first was only four laps though and then we got 2x twenty minute sessions. For the first and most of the second I didn't run the extra lights - agree headlights alone were sufficient. Started running them half way through the 2nd session and all of the 3rd to get a feel for how well they worked - what you said about the apex being more lit up was the most beneficial. During night racing I would definitely prefer to have them - although not necessary but while in traffic it lets you not have to give the apex that much more attention as when it is darker. Not a huge difference but every lit bit helps. Could imagine in the rain at night they could be extremely helpful though.

I agree that is excellent practice in avoiding target fixation on the car(s) in front of you. Always something I remind myself of during racing in the day - can be easy to lapse into that trying to make a pass - at night if you do it seemed like it would be much easier to follow someone off line. Very good reinforcement in avoiding this.

On the back straight one of the boards wasn't lit up very well - that was what I used to count from. On the first out lap I just went whaaaatttt - why no numbers???? Good practice though in working on being able to adapt quickly.

Saw (and guilty of) a lot of early apexes at 10. 15 was ok - mixed bag in the group. 19 and 20 would get some over slowing (probably 19 more than 20 in that group).

Fun night though. We were on stock power level for the M3 and still turned some decent times. Was always fun working through the twisties and then having the other cars in the group just leave me in the dust on the straights

M1500Z congrats on the PR

[M1500Z]

Thanks, OG Shark! It was a 2:34.666 #metal. I'd love to say I'm thrilled, but I'm not—this was the first time on the 275 squared setup (Goodyear SC3) and new brakes (AP/DS3.12) and I know there's a good bit more time in the car, even on these 220 tires.

Something I found interesting is on the 245/265 setup, I was scrubbing the outside shoulder pretty good on proper tire pressures. With the 275 square setup, either the track, or my driving style is not loading up the fronts enough to wear that outside very much at all. My hypothesis right now is I need more time to adapt to the neutral setup and balance the car better in order to maximize entry and mid-corner speeds.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

Thanks, OG Shark! It was a 2:34.666 #metal. I'd love to say I'm thrilled, but I'm not—this was the first time on the 275 squared setup (Goodyear SC3) and new brakes (AP/DS3.12) and I know there's a good bit more time in the car, even on these 220 tires.

Something I found interesting is on the 245/265 setup, I was scrubbing the outside shoulder pretty good on proper tire pressures. With the 275 square setup, either the track, or my driving style is not loading up the fronts enough to wear that outside very much at all. My hypothesis right now is I need more time to adapt to the neutral setup and balance the car better in order to maximize entry and mid-corner speeds.

Might not be thrilled with it - but it is still progress in the right direction!

275 square is a great track setup - might consider the Nitto NT01's if you haven't already & have a dedicated set of track wheels. Awesome track day tire.

Not sure when you set your last PR - but was plenty hot & humid out there Friday. Not real beneficial for power, especially on a turbo car... Just might take a bit of time too like you said to get used to the square setup. Could you feel a reduction in understeer & increase in grip?

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Might not be thrilled with it - but it is still progress in the right direction!

275 square is a great track setup - might consider the Nitto NT01's if you haven't already & have a dedicated set of track wheels. Awesome track day tire.

Not sure when you set your last PR - but was plenty hot & humid out there Friday. Not real beneficial for power, especially on a turbo car...

I'm not thrilled only because I believe there was a 2:34.XX in the car prior to the brakes/square setup. Like you said, the track temps weren't advantageous to fast times and I think those Goodyears will be faster after another day or so on them. I think I'll run them down and then try the 3R just for fun. I don't know why I'm so resistant to NT01s—a lot of BMW people love them.

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Just might take a bit of time too like you said to get used to the square setup.Could you feel a reduction in understeer & increase in grip?

So I could definitely feel a reduction in understeer at turn in and I am not maximizing this—was comparing data with a friend's E46 for example and he's 5mph faster on entry into T1 and 2mph faster at the apex on a 275 square Cup 2 240 (lighter car I know). I am doing ok braking-wise, but over-slowing the car and since it's more neutral, having to balance the rear a little more.

Earlier in the day, the car just felt really loose at the rear coming out of 2 and 18 and that was not confidence inspiring. Again, new tires so maybe that was it, but it really felt like any little throttle wanted to induce a little slip to the rear and I'd rather not have a oversteer moment at 18 (or at the bottom of 2 for that matter). I've got an Aim Solo 2 DL if anyone wants to swap data files.

[bentom2]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

I'm not thrilled only because I believe there was a 2:34.XX in the car prior to the brakes/square setup. Like you said, the track temps weren't advantageous to fast times and I think those Goodyears will be faster after another day or so on them. I think I'll run them down and then try the 3R just for fun. I don't know why I'm so resistant to NT01s—a lot of BMW people love them.



So I could definitely feel a reduction in understeer at turn in and I am not maximizing this—was comparing data with a friend's E46 for example and he's 5mph faster on entry into T1 and 2mph faster at the apex on a 275 square Cup 2 240 (lighter car I know). I am doing ok braking-wise, but over-slowing the car and since it's more neutral, having to balance the rear a little more.

Earlier in the day, the car just felt really loose at the rear coming out of 2 and 18 and that was not confidence inspiring. Again, new tires so maybe that was it, but it really felt like any little throttle wanted to induce a little slip to the rear and I'd rather not have a oversteer moment at 18 (or at the bottom of 2 for that matter). I've got an Aim Solo 2 DL if anyone wants to swap data files.

What were you running for hot pressures? Out of habit, I was running the SC3 at 38psi and experienced them getting greasy, mainly on the rear axle, after a few laps. 36psi seemed to calm them down and I wouldn’t be surprised if they would like even lower pressures, but I haven’t tried it out yet.

So far, they just don’t seem to be that grippy of a tire compared to other 200ish TW tires I’ve run. If you’re chasing times, there are better choices. What were you running before?

I do like their durability though. A friend got 9 days on a set earlier this season on his M2 with less than 2 degrees of camber, and said grip level was consistent to the cords. I’m on day 6 or 7 and they still seem to be delivering similar times to when I put them on, and I think I’ll get another day or two out of them (our driving styles are a bit different, so I expect less life than he gets).

I’d be interested to hear what you think of the 3R if you try them. I’ve considered throwing a set on.

[mcvaughan]

I ran the 3R and was very pleased with the grip. My favorite tire at the moment but have not tried the AR-1.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

I'm not thrilled only because I believe there was a 2:34.XX in the car prior to the brakes/square setup. Like you said, the track temps weren't advantageous to fast times and I think those Goodyears will be faster after another day or so on them. I think I'll run them down and then try the 3R just for fun. I don't know why I'm so resistant to NT01s—a lot of BMW people love them.

So I could definitely feel a reduction in understeer at turn in and I am not maximizing this—was comparing data with a friend's E46 for example and he's 5mph faster on entry into T1 and 2mph faster at the apex on a 275 square Cup 2 240 (lighter car I know). I am doing ok braking-wise, but over-slowing the car and since it's more neutral, having to balance the rear a little more.

Earlier in the day, the car just felt really loose at the rear coming out of 2 and 18 and that was not confidence inspiring. Again, new tires so maybe that was it, but it really felt like any little throttle wanted to induce a little slip to the rear and I'd rather not have a oversteer moment at 18 (or at the bottom of 2 for that matter). I've got an Aim Solo 2 DL if anyone wants to swap data files.

How did your trap speeds on the back straight compare to previous days? Could give you an idea about the power levels. That heat could be worth 2sec easy.

Something to consider on T1 - who was able to get back to full throttle faster - you or your friend? T1 is kind on an odd corner - actually doesn't hurt to spend some time coasting. For me the priority is how fast I can get back to full throttle even if that means sacrificing a bit of entry speed. I can go quick to wot at the apex based on how I setup for the entry - want to be rotated and ready to run down that stretch to the S's wide open. So would just compare your exits as well - make sure that the increased speed for your friend is beneficial in the long run. Could be carrying more speed at apex but takes longer to get back to wot.

Sliding through the faster turns like that - definitely could produce some puckering. Maybe bentom2 has the right idea with the pressures. Also could have been going through those corners quicker than before? And now you might have been on the edge? PR and likely down on power - definitely had to be gaining time somewhere.

NT01s really are a solid track day tire. Not as fast as a cheater 200 like the RE71s were - but they wear well, don't grease up as bad, and stay as fast on the day you cord them as the first day you put them on. And still have some decent pace in them. They also have pretty friendly recovery characteristics.

Originally Posted by bentom2

I’d be interested to hear what you think of the 3R if you try them. I’ve considered throwing a set on.

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

I ran the 3R and was very pleased with the grip. My favorite tire at the moment but have not tried the AR-1.

I ran a set of the 3R on my M3 awhile back. Good tire - pretty quick. Not the longest life but wasn't awful either. I moved on to R7s on my next set as the 3R was kind of an in between tire on the way to competition. Not a bad track day choice but might wear a little quicker than desired.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by bentom2

What were you running for hot pressures? Out of habit, I was running the SC3 at 38psi and experienced them getting greasy, mainly on the rear axle, after a few laps. 36psi seemed to calm them down and I wouldn’t be surprised if they would like even lower pressures, but I haven’t tried it out yet.

So far, they just don’t seem to be that grippy of a tire compared to other 200ish TW tires I’ve run. If you’re chasing times, there are better choices. What were you running before?

I’d be interested to hear what you think of the 3R if you try them. I’ve considered throwing a set on.

I've only ever run the SC3 (now 7 days). Haven't been in this game long enough to try anything else. My goal is to go as fast as I can on a durable tire, so chasing times is relative. I don't trailer my car so getting 30+ heat cycles out of a tire is a massive ++. I am a little annoyed that with this org, they are suggesting I move up to a group that is minimum 6s faster than my fastest lap.

Tire pressures
I'm finding more and more this tire likes a low pressure. I ran my fastest time at 32-33psi hot and I'm still not using as much shoulder as I'd hoped.

Originally Posted by mcvaughan

I ran the 3R and was very pleased with the grip. My favorite tire at the moment but have not tried the AR-1.

Looking forward to trying them for a weekend. Mind if I ask how your car is setup and what times you were running?

Originally Posted by OG Shark

How did your trap speeds on the back straight compare to previous days? Could give you an idea about the power levels. That heat could be worth 2sec easy.

So I looked at the data and you're right on—I'm down about almost 3mph (.77s according to variance) on the back straight alone.

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Something to consider on T1 - who was able to get back to full throttle faster - you or your friend? T1 is kind on an odd corner - actually doesn't hurt to spend some time coasting. For me the priority is how fast I can get back to full throttle even if that means sacrificing a bit of entry speed. I can go quick to wot at the apex based on how I setup for the entry - want to be rotated and ready to run down that stretch to the S's wide open. So would just compare your exits as well - make sure that the increased speed for your friend is beneficial in the long run. Could be carrying more speed at apex but takes longer to get back to wot.

He's getting too 100% much earlier—prob because a) he's a better driver, but also b) lighter car, and c) E46 with no torque. Looking at that trace, I can probably be getting a littler harder on the throttle out of 1 and through 2 if I can find the grip.

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Sliding through the faster turns like that - definitely could produce some puckering. Maybe bentom2 has the right idea with the pressures. Also could have been going through those corners quicker than before? And now you might have been on the edge? PR and likely down on power - definitely had to be gaining time somewhere.

Vs. my old 2:35 I set in March (68° ), I am gaining time in T1 and T12 braking zones/corner speeds, and a decent chunk through T13-15, 19, and 20. Corner speed around the carousel is the same and slower on exit. DM me if you're bored and want to send or compare data. I'm just now reading Making Sense of Squiggly Lines, a lot to learn. I may also seek to do a school or hire a coach in the Fall as well.

Here's the vid of the lap too. Don't laugh too hard at my braking into 12 -_-
Ignore the mph postings in the top-left, they're going off of ecu speed and incorrect

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

I've only ever run the SC3 (now 7 days). Haven't been in this game long enough to try anything else. My goal is to go as fast as I can on a durable tire, so chasing times is relative. I don't trailer my car so getting 30+ heat cycles out of a tire is a massive ++. I am a little annoyed that with this org, they are suggesting I move up to a group that is minimum 6s faster than my fastest lap.

Tire pressures
I'm finding more and more this tire likes a low pressure. I ran my fastest time at 32-33psi hot and I'm still not using as much shoulder as I'd hoped.



Looking forward to trying them for a weekend. Mind if I ask how your car is setup and what times you were running?



So I looked at the data and you're right on—I'm down about almost 3mph (.77s according to variance) on the back straight alone.



He's getting too 100% much earlier—prob because a) he's a better driver, but also b) lighter car, and c) E46 with no torque. Looking at that trace, I can probably be getting a littler harder on the throttle out of 1 and through 2 if I can find the grip.



Vs. my old 2:35 I set in March (68° ), I am gaining time in T1 and T12 braking zones/corner speeds, and a decent chunk through T13-15, 19, and 20. Corner speed around the carousel is the same and slower on exit. DM me if you're bored and want to send or compare data. I'm just now reading Making Sense of Squiggly Lines, a lot to learn. I may also seek to do a school or hire a coach in the Fall as well.

Here's the vid of the lap too. Don't laugh too hard at my braking into 12 -_-
Ignore the mph postings in the top-left, they're going off of ecu speed and incorrect

Ok cool - we are getting somewhere already with the power loss. Certainly the back straight feels it the most - but I think you could really account for up to 2sec just with this.

Also with the heat the track definitely might have had less available grip than when you were there previously. Been getting a lot of rain too - so the track likely isn’t rubbered in very well either. Just saying there are a few factors that are pointing to a slower track Friday vs your previous PR. I really do think you made more of an improvement than you realize.

The video - quick glance yes I think there are a few small tweaks to your line that could pay off. I’m racing out there this weekend so will take a better look at it next week and shoot you a PM with some data/video.

[M1500Z]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Ok cool - we are getting somewhere already with the power loss. Certainly the back straight feels it the most - but I think you could really account for up to 2sec just with this.

Also with the heat the track definitely might have had less available grip than when you were there previously. Been getting a lot of rain too - so the track likely isn’t rubbered in very well either. Just saying there are a few factors that are pointing to a slower track Friday vs your previous PR. I really do think you made more of an improvement than you realize.

The video - quick glance yes I think there are a few small tweaks to your line that could pay off. I’m racing out there this weekend so will take a better look at it next week and shoot you a PM with some data/video.

Good luck this weekend! looking forward to hearing your thoughts and thanks for the positivity.

[mcvaughan]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

I've only ever run the SC3 (now 7 days). Haven't been in this game long enough to try anything else. My goal is to go as fast as I can on a durable tire, so chasing times is relative. I don't trailer my car so getting 30+ heat cycles out of a tire is a massive ++. I am a little annoyed that with this org, they are suggesting I move up to a group that is minimum 6s faster than my fastest lap.

Tire pressures
I'm finding more and more this tire likes a low pressure. I ran my fastest time at 32-33psi hot and I'm still not using as much shoulder as I'd hoped.

Looking forward to trying them for a weekend. Mind if I ask how your car is setup and what times you were running?

So I looked at the data and you're right on—I'm down about almost 3mph (.77s according to variance) on the back straight alone.

He's getting too 100% much earlier—prob because a) he's a better driver, but also b) lighter car, and c) E46 with no torque. Looking at that trace, I can probably be getting a littler harder on the throttle out of 1 and through 2 if I can find the grip.

Vs. my old 2:35 I set in March (68° ), I am gaining time in T1 and T12 braking zones/corner speeds, and a decent chunk through T13-15, 19, and 20. Corner speed around the carousel is the same and slower on exit. DM me if you're bored and want to send or compare data. I'm just now reading Making Sense of Squiggly Lines, a lot to learn. I may also seek to do a school or hire a coach in the Fall as well.

Here's the vid of the lap too. Don't laugh too hard at my braking into 12 -_-
Ignore the mph postings in the top-left, they're going off of ecu speed and incorrect

Similar times in the 2:34 region, however I'm not balls out since mine is also my daily. I know there's more time to gain though. It was my first time back to COTA on my MCS 2ways, with H&R sways —still sorting out ideal settings.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by M1500Z

Good luck this weekend! looking forward to hearing your thoughts and thanks for the positivity.

Unfortunately covid had other plans for me this weekend & had to skip the races

You have good pace - looks like you run more of a race line though. Hopefully not having to do that to keep people from diving in.

By race line it looks like a tendency to drift in too soon towards the low speed corners on entry. It's hard to say for sure because of the helmet cam view - but it looks like a T1 you start to pinch off the corner a bit by drifting in before committing to the turn. At the apex you are still pointed out quite a bit - and with this corner being over 90* you really, really need to be as rotated as possible at the apex in order to be able to get to wot quickly. It also puts you pointed on a better line for T2 - not drifting out on exit so far down the track from T1 so you are able to drop down lower for T2 entry. Can then run that turn faster now that it is straightened out a bit more.

T11 looks like the same - drifting in too soon and making it to where you are not rotated enough at the apex. Most important corner - have to get to wot asap. Maybe stay out wider & deeper on entry so that you can be more fully rotated at the apex and can get back to wot much quicker being on a much better line. Might try going to the end of the red/white rumble curb on the right before you start your turn in.

T18 - not sure what happened??? Doesn't look like you got loose - was the car pushing out through the turn and you had to stay low throttle to get it through? Lot of time between there and 19 (don't pinch 19 either).

Had good pace overall - think in more favorable conditions & a little line clean up will be in the 2:30.xx pretty quickly.

Also are you on the stock suspension?