[M2LA]

Hi

Valvoline vs Pennzoil vs M1 vs Castrol

Reading through some of these posts answers the question of why I drink as much as I do lol. 2017 M2 manual. Purchased 10/16. 36K. Los Angeles. DD no track. I own the vehicle and have no plan to sell it. No warranty. My interest is in cold start and wear, not fuel mileage. I have a good BMW shop that will do the change for $ 40, they seem competent. HU816X I have, just need the oil.

Thank you !!

Kurt

LL01

Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic SAE 0W-40 Motor Oil 5 QT $ 37
Pennzoil Platinum Euro Full Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil, 1 Quart, Pack of 6 $ 42

OR

Mobil 1 FS European Car Formula Full Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-40, 5 Quart $ 22
Castrol Edge 0W-40 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 Quarts $24

OR

BMW 0W-30 $ 8

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M2LA

Hi

Valvoline vs Pennzoil vs M1 vs Castrol

Reading through some of these posts answers the question of why I drink as much as I do lol. 2017 M2 manual. Purchased 10/16. 36K. Los Angeles. DD no track. I own the vehicle and have no plan to sell it. No warranty. My interest is in cold start and wear, not fuel mileage. I have a good BMW shop that will do the change for $ 40, they seem competent. HU816X I have, just need the oil.

Thank you !!

Kurt

LL01

Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic SAE 0W-40 Motor Oil 5 QT $ 37
Pennzoil Platinum Euro Full Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil, 1 Quart, Pack of 6 $ 42

OR

Mobil 1 FS European Car Formula Full Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-40, 5 Quart $ 22
Castrol Edge 0W-40 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 Quarts $24

OR

BMW 0W-30 $ 8

If you can source Castrol Edge 0W30 for decent price (AAP has it on sale usually) get that. Otherwise in this order:
Castrol Edge 0W40
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40
Valvoline 5W40
Quaker state 5W40
I don't think M1 0W40 is best option (or any ACEA A3 M1) for any direct injection engines due to very high SAPS.

As for BMW TPT 0W30, it is thin W30 oil designed for mpg bump. If you plant to keep car, stick with oils that have MB229.5 approval. That is gold standard.

[msmiljanic]

Originally Posted by edycol

If you can source Castrol Edge 0W30 for decent price (AAP has it on sale usually) get that. Otherwise in this order:
Castrol Edge 0W40
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40
Valvoline 5W40
Quaker state 5W40
I don't think M1 0W40 is best option (or any ACEA A3 M1) for any direct injection engines due to very high SAPS.

As for BMW TPT 0W30, it is thin W30 oil designed for mpg bump. If you plant to keep car, stick with oils that have MB229.5 approval. That is gold standard.

Hi-

Is MB229.5 > LL01? Reason I ask is that Castrol Edge Euro 0W30 is not LL01. Only CEE 5W40 is according to their site. Any reason Castrol over Penzoil?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by msmiljanic

Hi-

Is MB229.5 > LL01? Reason I ask is that Castrol Edge Euro 0W30 is not LL01. Only CEE 5W40 is according to their site. Any reason Castrol over Penzoil?

MB229.5 is in general more stringent specification. Only performance variable where LL01 is more stringent is oxidation.
Reason why Castrol 0W30 (and other 0W oils in ACEA A3 and C3) category don't have LL01 is update BMW did to its specifications in 2018. New engine test is introduced specifically aiming at timing chain issue on N20 engines and more stringent oxidation requirements to increase OCI.
Oxidation is irrelevant unless you are pushing OCI to 15-20k or run race oil but than LL01 is irrelevant anyway.
You don't have N20 engine.
Bcs. of oxidation requirements oils that have esters or PAO and less Group III hydrocracked base oils that serve to control oxidation, they can't be approved for LL01 or LL04.
As for Pennzoil, always Castrol 0W30/40 over Pennzoil. Pennzoil has seriously low Zinc now to meet new API SP requirements. SP in 5W40 now limits Zinc to 800ppm. Reason for that is that numerous manufacturers have timing chain issues and a lot of Zinc is not good.
But, Zinc is best additive to prevent wear in rest of the engine. It is non issue if timing chain is done correctly and on N/S55 it is done properly.

[M2LA]

Originally Posted by edycol

If you can source Castrol Edge 0W30 for decent price (AAP has it on sale usually) get that. Otherwise in this order:
Castrol Edge 0W40
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40
Valvoline 5W40
Quaker state 5W40
I don't think M1 0W40 is best option (or any ACEA A3 M1) for any direct injection engines due to very high SAPS.

As for BMW TPT 0W30, it is thin W30 oil designed for mpg bump. If you plant to keep car, stick with oils that have MB229.5 approval. That is gold standard.

Hi there

I tried to send you a pm the other day with my query so I would not have to ask the same questions and bore everyone to death but the option was not available for some reason, now fixed. welcome to tech.

first off I want to thank you for your all your contributions to the community, really above and beyond the call of duty so I thank you!

the 0/30 is 2x the cost so that is a pass. I ordered 3 of: Castrol 03101 EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 quart, 1 pack $ Grand Total: $80.37 (4) Mann's for $ 25 via some ebay promo so I am all set for 2 changes.

I was going to ignore the ticks on the side of the bottle as one never knows what is left in the pan, stick 6.5 qts in the car at the shop and fine turn the level myself on a level surface after I drive it a bit.

the car had the oil, filter, air filter & plugs done under bmw maintenance on 11/07/2019 almost 10K ago so I am looking forward to pulling the oil out. as I mentioned, I am in Los Angeles and there are heat spells as well as some stop-and-go traffic so I think the 0/40 is a good solution for me as wear is my primary concern outside of the cold start.

my dad when alive was a phd in organic chem from the the u of chicago. he worked for standard oil for decades after the war and he did rifle lubes of all things for the war effort. later he did consulting and astm reference oils, etc. you would have loved my dad, I can just tell. he was one smart fucking guy and so are you.

Thank you

Kurt

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M2LA

Hi there

I tried to send you a pm the other day with my query so I would not have to ask the same questions and bore everyone to death but the option was not available for some reason, now fixed. welcome to tech.

first off I want to thank you for your all your contributions to the community, really above and beyond the call of duty so I thank you!

the 0/30 is 2x the cost so that is a pass. I ordered 3 of: Castrol 03101 EDGE 0W-40 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 quart, 1 pack $ Grand Total: $80.37 (4) Mann's for $ 25 via some ebay promo so I am all set for 2 changes.

I was going to ignore the ticks on the side of the bottle as one never knows what is left in the pan, stick 6.5 qts in the car at the shop and fine turn the level myself on a level surface after I drive it a bit.

the car had the oil, filter, air filter & plugs done under bmw maintenance on 11/07/2019 almost 10K ago so I am looking forward to pulling the oil out. as I mentioned, I am in Los Angeles and there are heat spells as well as some stop-and-go traffic so I think the 0/40 is a good solution for me as wear is my primary concern outside of the cold start.

my dad when alive was a phd in organic chem from the the u of chicago. he worked for standard oil for decades after the war and he did rifle lubes of all things for the war effort. later he did consulting and astm reference oils, etc. you would have loved my dad, I can just tell. he was one smart fucking guy and so are you.

Thank you

Kurt

So, 0W30 or 40 in LA is irrelevant. I lived in San Diego and know climate and I ran 0W30. I lived in Alabama, much hotter, and still ran 0W30.
Your oil temperature is maintained by cooling system, and cooling system n M2 is excellent.
You are also at pretty much sea level. Altitude is much worse for engines when it comes to cooling bcs. thinner air means less heat exchange between radiator and surrounding. It is easier on an engine in the Death Valley in summer than Vail pass here in CO in summer.
So, heat? Absolutely no worries whatever you run LL01 or for that matter any Euro oil.
Cold start? The difference between 0W or 5W oils matter somewhere around -30c. I started my engines (X5 35d) here in CO at -44c using Valvoline 5W40.
From that stand point, absolutely don't worry.
Castrol 0W30/40 are good bcs. they are very shear stable, especially for 0W oils (the wider the spread between XW and WXX more shear. That is countered with high quality base stocks like PAO and POE. So, from production stand point making 5W30 and 5W40 is easier to make than 0W30 or 0W40. But Castrol has very low shear, lower than most 5W30/40 oils and very low evaporation loss (Noack). That is bcs. Castrol 0W30/40 are loaded with PAO (very low pour point indicates A LOT of true synthetic base stock, and it is -60).
So, you will be served well with this oil and in LA don't worry about ambient temperature.
I bet your dad would be interesting guy to talk to regardless of subject.

[M2LA]

Thank you, very much appreciate your insight on all this. my parents were incredible and you are right, he kept current and was a blast to engage on any subject. my mom was a concert pianist. they were both incredible. they were both from chicago and we moved to LA when I was young. life is bittersweet

[M2LA]

you make an impression + I don't want to deal with 5 qt bottles, I ended up just getting the 0/30 at walmart. thx again for your time

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M2LA

you make an impression + I don't want to deal with 5 qt bottles, I ended up just getting the 0/30 at walmart. thx again for your time

Wal Mart has 0W30?
Online?

[infinitekidM2C]

Originally Posted by edycol

MB229.5 is in general more stringent specification. Only performance variable where LL01 is more stringent is oxidation.
Reason why Castrol 0W30 (and other 0W oils in ACEA A3 and C3) category don't have LL01 is update BMW did to its specifications in 2018. New engine test is introduced specifically aiming at timing chain issue on N20 engines and more stringent oxidation requirements to increase OCI.
Oxidation is irrelevant unless you are pushing OCI to 15-20k or run race oil but than LL01 is irrelevant anyway.
You don't have N20 engine.
Bcs. of oxidation requirements oils that have esters or PAO and less Group III hydrocracked base oils that serve to control oxidation, they can't be approved for LL01 or LL04.
As for Pennzoil, always Castrol 0W30/40 over Pennzoil. Pennzoil has seriously low Zinc now to meet new API SP requirements. SP in 5W40 now limits Zinc to 800ppm. Reason for that is that numerous manufacturers have timing chain issues and a lot of Zinc is not good.
But, Zinc is best additive to prevent wear in rest of the engine. It is non issue if timing chain is done correctly and on N/S55 it is done properly.

yeah yeah what do you know?

[windnsea00]

Originally Posted by edycol

MB229.5 is in general more stringent specification. Only performance variable where LL01 is more stringent is oxidation.
Reason why Castrol 0W30 (and other 0W oils in ACEA A3 and C3) category don't have LL01 is update BMW did to its specifications in 2018. New engine test is introduced specifically aiming at timing chain issue on N20 engines and more stringent oxidation requirements to increase OCI.
Oxidation is irrelevant unless you are pushing OCI to 15-20k or run race oil but than LL01 is irrelevant anyway.
You don't have N20 engine.
Bcs. of oxidation requirements oils that have esters or PAO and less Group III hydrocracked base oils that serve to control oxidation, they can't be approved for LL01 or LL04.
As for Pennzoil, always Castrol 0W30/40 over Pennzoil. Pennzoil has seriously low Zinc now to meet new API SP requirements. SP in 5W40 now limits Zinc to 800ppm. Reason for that is that numerous manufacturers have timing chain issues and a lot of Zinc is not good.
But, Zinc is best additive to prevent wear in rest of the engine. It is non issue if timing chain is done correctly and on N/S55 it is done properly.

Very interesting, I have been running PP Euro 5w40 in my 2001 525i as I thought it was one of the best oils out there from my readings but sounds like at least in some ways Castrol Edge may be the better bet.

[F87source]

There's another alternative too if you want LL01 like me (I don't want to take chances on the timing chain despite it being built properly, and the valvetronic system relies on oiling as well and these things have been shown to be problematic on some cars with the worm gear wearing prematurely). But overall listen to edy, the guy taught me everything I know (and I know almost nothing compared to him) about oil on BITOG.

https://www.motul.com/ca/en/products...ess-gen2-5w-40
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...-5w-40.336438/

It has a solid HTHS of 3.8, higher levels of Zinc compared to PPE, Porsche A40 and MB229.5 approvals as well.


The problem with this oil however is price (it's kind of on the expensive side compared to PPE and Castrol which are known to go on sale for 50% off very frequently), and availability (this is readily available in Lordco in Canada, I don't know about the US).


I'm thinking about moving from PPE 5W40 this oil, but we will see - it's still fairly new and I haven't seen a UOA yet.

[M Fifty]

Fill it with what BMW recommend maybe?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

Fill it with what BMW recommend maybe?

bmw recommends FE oils which aren't that good. But they also recommend LL01 oils which can be really good. So you have to make sure you select the right one despite bmw recommending oils.


Personally I am using PPE 5w40, but thinking about motul xcess gen 2 5w40. I am still unsure if the benefits will be worth it because it costs alot more, and since my oci is quite low flash point retention of PPE isn't a huge concern for me. Zinc seems to be in the 900-990 ppm range which is only slightly lower than motul at 1099 ppm and castrol which is in the same range. So is it worth it for me to spend alot more for minimal to no gains idk. But castrol is out of the picture for me since it is really hard for me to find the correct version of 0w40 locally.

[F87source]

Also with oil formulations change so rapidly, and new oil analysis may reveal new details for oils that what is recommended today may not be recommended for tomorrow, so the suggestions always are dynamic and forever changing.


So if you want to avoid the headaches just buy the cheapest LL01 oil you can find and you will most likely be fine.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M2LA

Hi

Valvoline vs Pennzoil vs M1 vs Castrol

Reading through some of these posts answers the question of why I drink as much as I do lol. 2017 M2 manual. Purchased 10/16. 36K. Los Angeles. DD no track. I own the vehicle and have no plan to sell it. No warranty. My interest is in cold start and wear, not fuel mileage. I have a good BMW shop that will do the change for $ 40, they seem competent. HU816X I have, just need the oil.

Thank you !!

Kurt

LL01

Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic SAE 0W-40 Motor Oil 5 QT $ 37
Pennzoil Platinum Euro Full Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil, 1 Quart, Pack of 6 $ 42

OR

Mobil 1 FS European Car Formula Full Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-40, 5 Quart $ 22
Castrol Edge 0W-40 A3/B4 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5 Quarts $24

OR

BMW 0W-30 $ 8

BTW the m2 oil filter is HU8011Z not HU816X.

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by F87source

Also with oil formulations change so rapidly, and new oil analysis may reveal new details for oils that what is recommended today may not be recommended for tomorrow, so the suggestions always are dynamic and forever changing.


So if you want to avoid the headaches just buy the cheapest LL01 oil you can find and you will most likely be fine.

Well, go with what was recommended by BMW when the car was new maybe?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

Well, go with what was recommended by BMW when the car was new maybe?

that's LL01 FE so junk oil like most fuel efficent oils are. I made a mistake before saying BMW TPT oil was good, the 0W30 is okish, but the 5W30 is really good because the 5w30 is LL01 and 0W30 is LL01 FE.

So either get tpt 5w30 that is LL01 only, or move to an aftermarket oil.

[chris719]

It's not junk, and it will be fine unless you track the car regularly. BMW was filling S65 with 10W-60 until 2013. If it were going to be a real issue, it would not have been approved for S55 and the manual would not have been updated. People read BITOG for 5 minutes and think they know more than BMW, or exaggerate the minutiae, at least. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to suggest that you don't know what you are talking about, but I think the difference is overblown. Maybe non FE is better in the long run or severe service, but there is nothing about the 0W-30 that screams dangerously inadequate.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by chris719

It's not junk, and it will be fine unless you track the car regularly. BMW was filling S65 with 10W-60 until 2013. If it were going to be a real issue, it would not have been approved for S55 and the manual would not have been updated. People read BITOG for 5 minutes and think they know more than BMW, or exaggerate the minutiae, at least. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to suggest that you don't know what you are talking about, but I think the difference is overblown. Maybe non FE is better in the long run or severe service, but there is nothing about the 0W-30 that screams dangerously inadequate.

I'm not saying it's dangerous to use FE oils but it is not optimal compared to non FE oils. There is also speculation that FE oils could have been a reason for increased bearing wear on these engines along with the potential of exacerbating rod bearing failures.


BTW Edycol is one of the highest rated members from BITOG and worked in certifying oils.... So he knows what he's talking about....

[chris719]

After spending a long time following the S54, S65, and S85 bearing issues, I would say that any speculation about oil affecting the bearing wear is just that. People ran every oil you can imagine in those engines and they still had abnormal bearing wear. I think you really need to know the root cause, because it may not be helped or mitigated by higher HTHS.

Yep, I have seen his posts on BITOG .

[F87source]

Originally Posted by chris719

After spending a long time following the S54, S65, and S85 bearing issues, I would say that any speculation about oil affecting the bearing wear is just that. People ran every oil you can imagine in those engines and they still had abnormal bearing wear. I think you really need to know the root cause, because it may not be helped or mitigated by higher HTHS.

Yep, I have seen his posts on BITOG .

Yeah he's a great guy, glad he's on here too.

But yeah for street driving I don't really feel FE oils will cause problems, but if you track get a non FE oil to ensure your hths isn't affected.


In regards to the Castrol vs Pennzoil vs Valvoline vs motul debate, I spoke to edy and he said they're extremely close as they all pass extremely rigourous testing MB 229.5 and Porsche a40 (the crazy track testing certifications), so the differences between them are extremely small and more down to nit picking for enthusiasts.