[pal]

My ER unit should be here on Monday. I can take pictures, get the weight and fin density.

[pal]

The ER competition intercooler arrived today. It weighs 23lbs with the metal brackets on top. Here are some dimensions and close up of the fins with a tape measure. The Type III hard anodized finish is stunning and the overall pieces look really well made. They also shipped a trimmed from brace which I was not expecting. Not sure how I feel about changing out the stock brace.

[AmuroRay]

AWESOME, and thank you! I love the way it looks, and I see about 18 fins per inch, which looks like they may have upgraded the fin pack.

I think I might return my VRSF, because that extra height (3” taller) really does make a difference.

For reference, the tallest IC is the Wagner Evo 3 at 13” tall. Talk about massive

[pal]

Install should be intersting. Their instructions call for installing that support bar on top of the factory bumper support bar. So nothing is removed.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by pal

Thanks folks. This is the closest review of a similar unit from Forge that I found

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1351995

I am starting to lean away from the non-stepped aFe or the Forge. The Wagner 1 Comp (5") seems like it will help keep the weight down, and the slightly thinner core will create a bit more room between it and the rad. And it should work well for a stock / mild tune setup for track duty.

I'm pretty happy with my Wagner EVO 1 Comp on my mildly tuned daily driven M235. I wanted something better than stock, but not overkill. If I was routinely tracking the car, I would have gone with something larger. With my datalogging, the Wagner EVO 1 Comp is more than up to the task and way better than stock. Expensive? Yes, but I'm willing to pay more for things that are built well and fit like stock. In 25 years of modding cars, having aftermarket parts fit correctly goes a long way in my book.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1773277

[3t3p]

That IC looks nice.

TBH even my uprated one it was a smaller part than I envisaged, mind you i've never seen an intercooler before.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I'm pretty happy with my Wagner EVO 1 Comp on my mildly tuned daily driven M235. I wanted something better than stock, but not overkill. If I was routinely tracking the car, I would have gone with something larger. With my datalogging, the Wagner EVO 1 Comp is more than up to the task and way better than stock. Expensive? Yes, but I'm willing to pay more for things that are built well and fit like stock. In 25 years of modding cars, having aftermarket parts fit correctly goes a long way in my book.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1773277

I'm in the same boat as you in terms of my daily driven M2. I have the VRSF 5". I don't see the need to go with a super large intercooler for a daily street driven car but its far better than the stock FMIC.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I'm pretty happy with my Wagner EVO 1 Comp on my mildly tuned daily driven M235. I wanted something better than stock, but not overkill. If I was routinely tracking the car, I would have gone with something larger. With my datalogging, the Wagner EVO 1 Comp is more than up to the task and way better than stock. Expensive? Yes, but I'm willing to pay more for things that are built well and fit like stock. In 25 years of modding cars, having aftermarket parts fit correctly goes a long way in my book.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1773277

The Evo 1 is barely qualified to be a paperweight much less an intercooler. I'll wait on those before and after logs if you ever decide to post them.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

The Evo 1 is barely qualified to be a paperweight much less an intercooler. I'll wait on those before and after logs if you ever decide to post them.

Paperweight. Got it. All the data is in my linked thread. The masses can decide if they think it's effective for street driving based on the data I've presented.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Paperweight. Got it. All the data is in my linked thread. The masses can decide if they think it's effective for street driving based on the data I've presented.

What Data? I must have missed all those logs you posted.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

What Data? I must have missed all those logs you posted.

I have a Dinan piggyback, thus I don't have a tune that would allow me to capture and post the data. Also, I never once said I was going to post datalogs. That was you. I datalog in real time with my Torque app. I posted all the useful data I gathered from my Torque app into my thread.

Like I said in my thread, my runs are real world driving. Not track driving or doing back to back to back 50mph to 140mph runs. For my tests, the car is warmed up, the IC is warmed up from street driving, and then I'd get on the highway and do a few 3rd gear runs to around 110mph. These aren't hero runs where I took my car out on the highway and got the IC fully cooled down to near ambient (which is easily possible with the EVO 1 Comp) and then did my runs. The data that matters to me is daily suburban driving where I'm sometimes driving aggressively, typically in ambient temps ranging from 60 degrees to 90 degrees. I'm looking for consistent performance and power. I got that with the EVO 1 Comp IC.

One of these you'll wise up to the fact that there is no "best" aftermarket IC out there. Why? Because we all have different mods, live in different climates, and use the cars for different purposes. There WAY too many variables to consider. The data you'd need to make this determination simply isn't out there. You have little snippets of data, but somehow believe you're the authority on the matter. The fact that you get so much wrong about tube and fin ICs should automatically discredit you.

[AmuroRay]

Look, I don't have a problem with you as a person, but you have the same 'holier than thou' attitude with your posts that I have/had. I don't mind you having an opinion contrary to mine, I take an issue with you presenting your opinion as fact.

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I have a Dinan piggyback, thus I don't have a tune that would allow me to capture and post the data. Also, I never once said I was going to post datalogs. That was you. I datalog in real time with my Torque app. I posted all the useful data I gathered from my Torque app into my thread.

Can you provide us (not just me) data of a multi gear pull? You'll recall on your last thread, I assisted you in deciphering the data you posted.

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Like I said in my thread, my runs are real world driving. Not track driving or doing back to back to back 50mph to 140mph runs. For my tests, the car is warmed up, the IC is warmed up from street driving, and then I'd get on the highway and do a few 3rd gear runs to around 110mph. These aren't hero runs where I took my car out on the highway and got the IC fully cooled down to near ambient (which is easily possible with the EVO 1 Comp) and then did my runs. The data that matters to me is daily suburban driving where I'm sometimes driving aggressively, typically in ambient temps ranging from 60 degrees to 90 degrees. I'm looking for consistent performance and power. I got that with the EVO 1 Comp IC.

I have a hard time believing that.


On this log, you'll note that the WC2 never even gets close to ambient. I've noted on 2 or 3 different WC2 logs I've seen, they typically baseline 20 degrees over ambient. Maybe yours is different.
Fr the rest of the post, I agree - most intercoolers will offer these benefits, regardless of brand. For the OP's usage, the WC1 is woefully inadequate, then add in the high cost of entry, and I struggle to see the value in the product from any angle.

Originally Posted by XutvJet

One of these you'll wise up to the fact that there is no "best" aftermarket IC out there. Why? Because we all have different mods, live in different climates, and use the cars for different purposes. There WAY too many variables to consider. The data you'd need to make this determination simply isn't out there. You have little snippets of data, but somehow believe you're the authority on the matter. The fact that you get so much wrong about tube and fin ICs should automatically discredit you.

In the bold, I agree. You'll note (if you actually read the thread?) that I made sure to address the OP's needs in my recommendation.

The underlined portion: I'm actually absolutely objectively correct, and for good measure you can ask any IC manufacture, they will tell you the same thing.

Hell, Even Wagner admitted that the Performance provided superior cooling than the Competition, their own data (posted elsewhere) proved that there was no advantage of heat dissipation.

I'll ask you: Do yo have any evidence to support the assumption that Tube and Fin cool down quicker? I've literally never seen it outside of people repeating something they've read from their friends.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Look, I don't have a problem with you as a person, but you have the same 'holier than thou' attitude with your posts that I have/had. I don't mind you having an opinion contrary to mine, I take an issue with you presenting your opinion as fact.

Can you provide us (not just me) data of a multi gear pull? You'll recall on your last thread, I assisted you in deciphering the data you posted.

I have a hard time believing that.


On this log, you'll note that the WC2 never even gets close to ambient. I've noted on 2 or 3 different WC2 logs I've seen, they typically baseline 20 degrees over ambient. Maybe yours is different.
Fr the rest of the post, I agree - most intercoolers will offer these benefits, regardless of brand. For the OP's usage, the WC1 is woefully inadequate, then add in the high cost of entry, and I struggle to see the value in the product from any angle.

In the bold, I agree. You'll note (if you actually read the thread?) that I made sure to address the OP's needs in my recommendation.

The underlined portion: I'm actually absolutely objectively correct, and for good measure you can ask any IC manufacture, they will tell you the same thing.

Hell, Even Wagner admitted that the Performance provided superior cooling than the Competition, their own data (posted elsewhere) proved that there was no advantage of heat dissipation.

I'll ask you: Do yo have any evidence to support the assumption that Tube and Fin cool down quicker? I've literally never seen it outside of people repeating something they've read from their friends.

I can take logs with bm3, BimmerLink, or torque. How do I know in the logs what the ambient is?

[Pray for Mojo]

Originally Posted by akkando

I can take logs with bm3, BimmerLink, or torque. How do I know in the logs what the ambient is?

Bm3 only shows ambient pressure in logs and intake air temp post intercooler. You'd have to run the BM3 phone app on dashboard to see your live IAT and the ambient readout on your dash to compare.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by akkando

I can take logs with bm3, BimmerLink, or torque. How do I know in the logs what the ambient is?

Please, and thank you if you can. Do you now how to log? Multiple gears should start in 2nd to 4th 2500RPM to 6500-7000RPM in each gear. A single gear can be 3rd (I'm speaking as someone who as a 6MT)

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Pray for Mojo

Bm3 only shows ambient pressure in logs and intake air temp post intercooler. You'd have to run the BM3 phone app on dashboard to see your live IAT and the ambient readout on your dash to compare.

For the sake of the current discussion I want to be able to prove what ambient is if possible.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by akkando

For the sake of the current discussion I want to be able to prove what ambient is if possible.

Actually, you can turn on the ambient temp data channel in the datalog options for BM3.

All my BM3 logs include ambient temp for the very reason being discussed in this thread.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Please, and thank you if you can. Do you now how to log? Multiple gears should start in 2nd to 4th 2500RPM to 6500-7000RPM in each gear. A single gear can be 3rd (I'm speaking as someone who as a 6MT)

Yeah I already have some logs but they're not ideal as it's not easy to find perfect conditions to take logs. Also I'm hoping to find a hotter day to do logs so the data is more relevant.


https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6027...729b45d64d015f

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6027...0b4346b9c7c1fa

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Actually, you can turn on the ambient temp data channel in the datalog options for BM3.

All my BM3 logs include ambient temp for the very reason being discussed in this thread.

Nice, just did that now.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

On this log, you'll note that the WC2 never even gets close to ambient. I've noted on 2 or 3 different WC2 logs I've seen, they typically baseline 20 degrees over ambient. Maybe yours is different.

Explain to me how in warm (60+ degree) ambient temps and a warmed up car will IATs be near ambient, especially during steady state driving? Aftermarket intercoolers are entirely metal and are mounted directly in front and within an inch or less of a very hot radiator and to sides of the IC are other hot exchangers (at least in the M235 and M2). Even at highway speeds and using minor throttle such as cruising, there is very little air moving through in the inside of the IC thus the IATs will be higher than ambient. To be 20 to 30 degrees over ambient in these situations and conditions shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, especially if the car is fully warm and has been driving for a while. On a sub 40 degree days, I see near ambient temps in the IC except when sitting at a light.

As I've noted previously, just moderate throttle (30%+) near instantly drops the IAT dramatically, usually be 50% or more.

[AmuroRay]

I concede. You win.

[Pray for Mojo]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Actually, you can turn on the ambient temp data channel in the datalog options for BM3.

All my BM3 logs include ambient temp for the very reason being discussed in this thread.

They must have added it a little while back when they included misfire counts ect to the options. I probably glossed over it when flipping through them. Unfortunately it doesn't look like I can pull it up on previous logs, so I guess you have to run it as one of the dashboard channels at the time of capture.