[Spider.]

Hopefully we'll find out soon as more people receive their 21's and want to get them tuned.

[Superdaws]

Originally Posted by Spider.

Hopefully we'll find out soon as more people receive their 21's and want to get them tuned.

My MY21 (built June) has the version 2 MVED (bench unlock capable). HWEL version 19DE v11_019_002.

[Spider.]

Originally Posted by Superdaws

My MY21 (built June) has the version 2 MVED (bench unlock capable). HWEL version 19DE v11_019_002.

So the cutoff date of June 21, 2020 that was posted by NathObeaN still holds as most likely still able to be bench unlocked. We just need to see if any M2 produced July+ and onwards have any luck.

[M2C_PLUS]

Anyway of checking what DME we have to see if its with the new Bosch locked bootloader?

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2

Anyway of checking what DME we have to see if its with the new Bosch locked bootloader?

The only way is to check the production date on the DME. There are no software version numbers that can be checked as this is not BMW software but Bosch bootloader. So yeah, production date stamped on the DME is the only way to verify. Unfortunately getting the DME out is a bit of a pain. I'm taking mine in next month to have just this done.

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

The only way is to check the production date on the DME. There are no software version numbers that can be checked as this is not BMW software but Bosch bootloader. So yeah, production date stamped on the DME is the only way to verify. Unfortunately getting the DME out is a bit of a pain. I'm taking mine in next month to have just this done.

Cheers mate. I will have a look. Im in a Aug 2020 built M2C

[bavinger]

So I read this whole thread over on the Supra forums...

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/a91...s-locked.6464/

There's an awful lot of confusion but bottom line it seems like there is still no fix for this. It sounds like it's more than just a software issue, but actually a hardware problem with the security of these new Bosch ECU's.

I'd still like to hear more first hand evidence from M2C guys with cars produced after 7/2020 as to whether or not they can still bench unlock. It's like I don't want to believe it! Lol

But this is just painful... I've gotten into doing track events and was looking at several different cars for my next track toy... C7 Grand Sport, Camaro ZL1 1LE, Shelby GT350, M2C, Used M4C. But ultimately the M2C is the car I really want. I love the looks of the car and the greater tuning potential of the S55, greater fueling capability, etc. (compared to my M235i) But if these new ECU's (DME, whatever) turn out to be unlockable then that is a deal breaker for me! And I hate that!!

But this has also been the case many times in the past, ECU's that were one time locked can now be unlocked via OBDII port. I just want to know if this is truly different or it's just a matter of time... Everyone's just guessing right now.

- Brian

[m3username]

If you look at the video game 'mod chip' community as an analog to the automotive tuning community then it seems likely that within 5 years we'll see a very intelligent workaround coming out of China or Eastern Europe (the incentive structure is way better in these regions because USD goes farther).

I just checked and both of the outgoing generations of video game consoles have working mod chips (with some caveats) and they're 7 years old.

So based on a separate but similar community I'd say odds are good but timeline is not immediate.

[GregInNewMexico]

Originally Posted by bavinger

It sounds like it's more than just a software issue, but actually a hardware problem with the security of these new Bosch ECU's.


- Brian

So you are referring to "firmware". Just as a reference: https://www.decselectronics.com/firmware.html

Firmware is software that is embedded in chips in the hardware. Thus it can also be hacked See for reference: https://www.wired.com/2015/02/nsa-firmware-hacking/

I do agree that it is a bummer that we might not be able to immediately tune these engines... However, if someone wants to get into it, they will eventually be successful. So no reason to worry that much

[Superdaws]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

The only way is to check the production date on the DME. There are no software version numbers that can be checked as this is not BMW software but Bosch bootloader. So yeah, production date stamped on the DME is the only way to verify. Unfortunately getting the DME out is a bit of a pain. I'm taking mine in next month to have just this done.

Can't you just get the HWEL software version number like I did and check which version?

Version 002 for the bench unlock.
Version 003 for the new Bosch MVED DME?

There's a number of programs on a PC or phone that can do a software version grab, like checking iStep version... or am I missing something here? Would've thought there'd be some differentiation between the DMEs by software versions?

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by Superdaws

Can't you just get the HWEL software version number like I did and check which version?

Version 002 for the bench unlock.
Version 003 for the new Bosch MVED DME?

There's a number of programs on a PC or phone that can do a software version grab, like checking iStep version... or am I missing something here? Would've thought there'd be some differentiation between the DMEs by software versions?

As far as I understand it the boot-loader code that has changed is not readable by software hence PTF asking me to check the DME production date (even after I shared with them the BM3 screenshot showing software versions).

[Superdaws]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

As far as I understand it the boot-loader code that has changed is not readable by software hence PTF asking me to check the DME production date (even after I shared with them the BM3 screenshot showing software versions).

Ok, so is your HWEL version the same as mine?

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by Superdaws

Ok, so is your HWEL version the same as mine?

Not sure what HWEL is if I'm honest? Where do I see that in BM3?

[Superdaws]

Originally Posted by NathObeaN

Not sure what HWEL is if I'm honest? Where do I see that in BM3?

I'm not an expert on this, but it's a version number associated with each ECU in the car. It's obtainable using E-Sys software, I'm pretty sure you can also grab it using MHDs F series fault code reader, I'd have to check BM3 if it's avail (not sure on it).

Some of the expert coders will know more about this...

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by Superdaws

I'm not an expert on this, but it's a version number associated with each ECU in the car. It's obtainable using E-Sys software, I'm pretty sure you can also grab it using MHDs F series fault code reader, I'd have to check BM3 if it's avail (not sure on it).

Some of the expert coders will know more about this...

How did you read yours? MHD?

[FaRKle!]

HWEL is the hardware version. I used ISTA to read my version.

Sometimes if chips get a new FW version the HW PN changes or is rev-rolled. That could be a significant enough of a change to dictate a HW version PN/rev-roll change of the DME.

[AUSf22]

Godamn,

My car finished production on the 3rd of July 2020, so it's a July build.

I wonder which version I have ...

[M2COD]

Long time listener, first time caller. Will be following this as well. My '21 is supposed to hit the dock on Saturday, and was really hoping to have Carbahn tune it...

[Superdaws]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2

How did you read yours? MHD?

I found it with E-Sys, but I also confirmed it with MHD.

If you've got an Enet cable that you can connect to your phone/device then just download the MHD F series app (doesn't charge you to scan) and open the stock flash scan, it shows the details in there.

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by Superdaws

I found it with E-Sys, but I also confirmed it with MHD.

If you've got an Enet cable that you can connect to your phone/device then just download the MHD F series app (doesn't charge you to scan) and open the stock flash scan, it shows the details in there.

Quick one, does it say Version 3 if its the new Bosch Bootloader? Im having it connected up to Esta next week to check.

[Superdaws]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteM2

Quick one, does it say Version 3 if its the new Bosch Bootloader? Im having it connected up to Esta next week to check.

I'm not sure, but there is 3 versions of the S55 DME now. The early ones that you could tune via OBD with no difficulty, the 2nd from March 2019 which requires a bench unlock of the boot loader (everyone's familiar with this) and then the new one from circa July 2020 (unconfirmed so far).

Mine ends with the 002, I guess if it ends in the 003??? Speculating here, there's not much info out there.

[NathObeaN]

Originally Posted by Superdaws

I'm not sure, but there is 3 versions of the S55 DME now. The early ones that you could tune via OBD with no difficulty, the 2nd from March 2019 which requires a bench unlock of the boot loader (everyone's familiar with this) and then the new one from circa July 2020 (unconfirmed so far).

Mine ends with the 002, I guess if it ends in the 003??? Speculating here, there's not much info out there.

Doubt it. Checked today and mine ends in 002 on MHD. Same version numbers available via BM3. I presented these very numbers to ProTuningFreaks and they said it wasn't enough to determine the version of the bootloader, only production date. So, looks like we have to take our DMEs out physically to check. Sucks!