09-20-2021, 06:11 PM | #155 |
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Has anyone in the US ever gotten MSP/A at their 1200 mile service? I'm going in soon and curious if I will get SAF-XJ or MSP/A, or if I should care as long as it's not XO or XJ+FM.
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09-20-2021, 06:21 PM | #156 |
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No one is even sure what the difference between msp/a and saf-xj is to be honest. msp/a is not new, it's been around for at least a decade if not more we just don't know who makes it (could very well be castrol). Same with saf-xj. I don't think it's a coincidence that bmw switched to msp/a when castrol stopped selling saf-xj. It's impossible to even tell if BMW is just offloading SAF-XJ stock that castrol doesn't make anymore since there is no date printed on the bottles.
Last edited by PackPride85; 09-20-2021 at 06:27 PM.. |
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09-20-2021, 06:24 PM | #157 | |
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With that aside as long as you get saf-xj as a bare minimum you are good to go imo, it might not be exactly what bmw wants but it should be fine (it is still to bmw specs). If it was a huge deal bmw would have forced the switch to MSP/A or face the warranty replacement costs. So don't worry about it, just make sure you don't get SAF-XJ + FM or SAF-XO then you should be fine. IMO the difference between MSP/A and SAF-XJ is minor as in not life and death but maybe it will cost you a small percentage of the diffs life in the long game (otherwise bmw wouldn't have put the effort in finding a new fluid for the E diff) but nothing too too appreciable. Like if you tune a car vs. not tuning it - maybe the stock car will make it to 300,000 km without a single issue and the tuned car makes it to 250,000 km or 275,000km without issue for instance. Eitherway they likely calculated that regardless of fluid the newly recalled diff will make it to 160,000 km (extended warranty coverage end point) without failure, then the maximum life of the diff will depend on useage and of course and a better spec'ed fluid will help. So I would expect MSP/A to make the diff last longer but if you don't have MSP/A I wouldn't strees out too much - like I said it would probably be a bit of a loss in life but it's nothing like half the diffs life or anywhere near that. SO the long answer made short is don't worry about it, get OEM fluids like MSP/A if you can or SAF-XJ if you can't and avoid SAF-XJ + FM and SAF-XO.
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09-20-2021, 06:25 PM | #158 |
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Here's what MSP/A looks like btw (it also smells like absolute garbage - literally the worst smelling fluid in the car):
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09-21-2021, 07:30 AM | #159 | |
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SAF-XJ has been ran in probably hundreds of thousands of BMWs at this point with zero issues. Including the F87 differential which it shares back to the F10 M5. The differential recall for the F87 was a manufacturing defect that QC should have caught. Nothing more. |
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09-21-2021, 01:46 PM | #160 | |
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2) I don't think a UOA will work on the diff because the clutch pack releases alot of metal just by nature and depending on use, so it's impossible to extrapolate wear accurately especially without a large sample size as no one really does uoa on the diff. 3) yup no such as a lifetime fill, agreed here too. Bmw does every say much about their fluid but I was able to find a thread elsewhere discussing how msp/a was thinner. I will look for it again. 4) the f10 m5 diff isn't completely the same, maybe they share similar components hence the recall but they're not identical. Here's a list of all the diff p/n's https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...&q=33108090473 Some terminate in 2017 some don't. Theres 5 variations in this page + 1 more on the initial diagram page. So there are changes to this unit since launch. 5) I'm pretty sure it wasn't a QC issue but a mechanical issue hence the FAQ of the recall mentioning premature wear. The QC issue causing a recall was the rear subframe bolts iirc. If you look for the f8x diff failure you'll see how many failed on track due to clutch pack wear (it was extremely common pre LCI aka pre recall), and then you can see even street cars have failed - there was an m2c here that blew a diff crossing a Texas gate. There are also threads of fluid induced failure +FM (not the cars fault). So all that together doesn't give me tremendous confidence that the diff is bullet proof but it's giving me the feeling it's finicky - hence why I recommend oem fluids. If bmw knows they have a wear issue and deliberately switched to msp/a - a reportedly thinner oil they must have done it for a reason.
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09-21-2021, 02:21 PM | #161 |
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Essentially what I'm seeing is that the fluids are a key part to the diff not failing, here's my thought process. The diffs had excessive wear issues in the past prior to the recall that also acknowledged premature wear. Post recall the diffs are still failing but I'm seeing less reports on the forum. They also fail both on the track and the street.
Next is the fluid, despite saf-xj being around for a long time bmw still moved the diff to msp/a globally while having access to both saf-xj and msp/a. So there's a reason they did this, if you had a choice of both then why did they choose msp/a during the recall that also acknowledged premature wear. Also, the diff is known to fail with saf-xj + FM, so this makes after market oils a risk if they cater to the e9x diff as well which requires the FM booster. All in all that's why I recommend oem fluids, you get exactly what the car needs no questions and msp/a if you can get it because bmw didn't move to it for no reason if they had access to both choices.
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09-21-2021, 03:08 PM | #162 | |
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09-21-2021, 03:51 PM | #163 | |
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But It's hard to imagine a stock pile that fricken big of just diff oil. Especially when all M cars get a diff oil change on break in + all the bottles that they do sell as well. Castrol could still be making SAF-XJ for bmw still and not reselling it elsewhere, just like shell made bmw tpt 0w30 which was LL01fe, I couldn't find it anywhere. So that's another highly likely possibility.
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12-11-2021, 01:26 AM | #165 |
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MSP/A.
I just did. What came out is really dark grey. It’s only 3000 kms. 3 yrs. The new one is THICK! It was kinda tough to pump it in. Last edited by vrooooom; 12-11-2021 at 04:07 AM.. |
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12-11-2021, 01:34 AM | #166 | |
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Because my car with like 8500km with 3 years on the diff oil had very clean amber colored fluid when it was drained. It was a bit darker than the new oil but not bad at all.
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12-11-2021, 03:53 AM | #167 |
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No, this is the first change since new. The first owner only changed the oil. Should I worry (no point)?
So when do you think I'll need to change that again— after a year? This differential is not serviceable right? MSP/A.
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12-11-2021, 04:00 AM | #168 | |
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You should change it every 4 years, iirc bmw says 5 years but I would not leave it past 4 due to oxidation. So 4 years or 48,000 km (this is around half of what bmw wants you to do it at) whatever comes first, I also wouldn't leave it to super high mileage due to the build up of metal particles which increases wear. So if it is not to expensive I would go even lower mileage intervals. Yes the differential oil is servicable - make sure you change the fill and drain plugs each time though, or else a leak may occur. But in terms of the diff itself only the seals are servicable along with the diff cover and other small bits like the temp sensor and screws and fasteners, the major componenets like the clutch packs are not serviceable.
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12-11-2021, 04:58 AM | #169 |
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So if indeed my clutch pack is worn... I'm toast? I guess w/ such low mileage per year of use, this should last me at least a decade.
This unit was imported from Canada by an individual, skipping the official local dealer. So the first service wasn't done, unfortunately. So how would one know if it's worn prematurely? Thanks.
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12-11-2021, 05:16 AM | #170 |
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60 N.m or 44 ft.lbs for the drain & fill bolt right?
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12-11-2021, 05:20 AM | #171 | |
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You won't know, it will just fail or you will get diff lock errors.
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12-11-2021, 05:21 AM | #172 |
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I will have to check.
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12-12-2021, 03:03 AM | #174 |
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Good plan. BTW what oil did you use?
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12-12-2021, 02:00 PM | #176 |
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