[pal]

Originally Posted by greasypeanut

Am I reading that right? Usage on track is considered abuse?

One of the reasons I would consider a sport cat would be for easier evacuation of exhaust gases and reduced EGTs from lower restriction post turbo. These factors mostly come into play at HPDEs. Seems strange to sell an “off-road” part and kill warranty if used as such. I suppose this is off my list.

[AndrewC1989]

Originally Posted by pal

One of the reasons I would consider a sport cat would be for easier evacuation of exhaust gases and reduced EGTs from lower restriction post turbo. These factors mostly come into play at HPDEs. Seems strange to sell an “off-road” part and kill warranty if used as such. I suppose this is off my list.

I understand your logic and point but I would say that's a silly reason to not get a sport cat since they have many benefits over the stock cat and a straight pipe.

You get more noise, quicker spool, and more power without the smoke and nasty smell. It's like Goldielocks and the three bears. It's the happy medium of the three options. Those things alone make it worth while to me. Not getting a CEL and the 2 year limited warranty is really just icing on the cake.

[pal]

Originally Posted by andrewc89

I understand your logic and point but I would say that's a silly reason to not get a sport cat since they have many benefits over the stock cat and a straight pipe.

You get more noise, quicker spool, and more power without the smoke and nasty smell. It's like Goldielocks and the three bears. It's the happy medium of the three options. Those things alone make it worth while to me. Not getting a CEL and the 2 year limited warranty is really just icing on the cake.

That’s fair. For me, not having to tune the car would be the deciding point whether to go catless dp or a Fabspeed/Akra style catted one that does not trigger a CEL.

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Originally Posted by pal

That’s fair. For me, not having to tune the car would be the deciding point whether to go catless dp or a Fabspeed/Akra style catted one that does not trigger a CEL.

You do not get a CEL with our sport cat dp and you do not have to tune it either.
As far as tracking it and voiding the warranty. If you by a sports car and track it and blow the engine you will void the warranty as well. If it was a track car I would suggest going with a cat bypass as well no need to worry about the Cat.

[Mike0105]

Originally Posted by Fabspeed Motorsport

You do not get a CEL with our sport cat dp and you do not have to tune it either.
As far as tracking it and voiding the warranty. If you by a sports car and track it and blow the engine you will void the warranty as well. If it was a track car I would suggest going with a cat bypass as well no need to worry about the Cat.

I think Pal's point here is that for those of us that use our cars on the street and for HPDE's the hi-flow cat is preferable to a cat bypass and it seems rather odd that a part made to increase the cars performance is has its warranty voided if you actually use it as intended.
Mike

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by D CHOI

Got my 1st CEL @ 17,500 miles. Only performance mod is the Fapspeed downpipe with over 10k miles on it.

P0420 - Cat System Efficency Below Threshold Bank 1

I reset it and it came back on within a few days. I just reset it again one more time but it doesn't look promising.

What's my best option moving forward? I haven't been active on the forum for a few months so I'm not up to date on this CEL or new downpipes I can consider as replacement for worse case scenario?

Can I ask a dumb question here? The screenshot of the trouble code, where did that come from? I have a Fabspeed DP and a CEL popped up today. I'd love a way to check it other than taking it to the dealer. I went through the iDrive to Vehicle Status and it's not showing any faults.

I did fill up 1/2 a tank ago at a sketchy Arco station. Hoping it's just that but I'd really like a way to read the code without the dealer being involved.

[goodNIGHT]

I've been driving around for two months with a CEL. same code 0420. is it detrimental to keep driving around?? or am I okay to keep going?

[Nick2016M2]

I was considering the Fabspeed, even though it is the most expensive, because of the guaranteed no CEL as a first modification. However, after reading the hoops you have to jump through to get a claim through if (and now seemingly when) you get a CEL, it doesn't seem worth it. Also, only two years does not seem like a very long guaranteed life of catalyst for that kind of money. You'd be better off getting a less expensive one and using the saved money towards a tune, which will include a guaranteed no CEL. Am I alone here?

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Originally Posted by Nick2016M2

I was considering the Fabspeed, even though it is the most expensive, because of the guaranteed no CEL as a first modification. However, after reading the hoops you have to jump through to get a claim through if (and now seemingly when) you get a CEL, it doesn't seem worth it. Also, only two years does not seem like a very long guaranteed life of catalyst for that kind of money. You'd be better off getting a less expensive one and using the saved money towards a tune, which will include a guaranteed no CEL. Am I alone here?

Hey guys,

I’m going to go into some detail below about the issue to hopefully clear up some of the questions.

The code P0420 is an issue that can occur with our product, but does so in less than 1% off these installations. The Sport Cat increases air flow to the engine and when the engine performs its initial routine diagnosis that it does every 50 to 100 miles, it may trigger the code P0420.

If you plug it in and clear the codes, we have never heard of it returning due to our product.

In over 99% of these installations there is no CEL and we have never heard of one reoccurring after the initial clear or occurring after that 50 to 100 miles threshold is surpassed.

Originally Posted by Mike0105

I think Pal's point here is that for those of us that use our cars on the street and for HPDE's the hi-flow cat is preferable to a cat bypass and it seems rather odd that a part made to increase the cars performance is has its warranty voided if you actually use it as intended.
Mike

We have the most extensive warranty in the industry. Any company will void a warranty on cats for track use.

[D CHOI]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Can I ask a dumb question here? The screenshot of the trouble code, where did that come from? I have a Fabspeed DP and a CEL popped up today. I'd love a way to check it other than taking it to the dealer. I went through the iDrive to Vehicle Status and it's not showing any faults.

I did fill up 1/2 a tank ago at a sketchy Arco station. Hoping it's just that but I'd really like a way to read the code without the dealer being involved.

It's from the Automatic APP, a car live monitoring device tracking trips. You don't have to take it to the dealership to check the CEL. I believe you can just go to autozone and have them check it for free.

As for the gas it could be a chance that may have caused it. Good luck!

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by D CHOI

It's from the Automatic APP, a car live monitoring device tracking trips. You don't have to take it to the dealership to check the CEL. I believe you can just go to autozone and have them check it for free.

As for the gas it could be a chance that may have caused it. Good luck!

Thanks! Ah, autozone. I totally forgot about that option. That's what I'll do.

[specka]

I'm just shy of 10,000km with my FS installed, no CEL and frankly, I'd be seriously considering trading to the M2C if it wasn't for this part. It transforms the car, the sound is amazing, to the point that when I was considering adding the M Perf exhaust I quickly realised the stock exhaust with the Sportscat is a much meaner sound at a fraction of the cost.

For me, the very slight risk of a CEL and even the potential inconvenience of having to swap the DP to stock in the event of an issue that isn't easily resolved is vastly outweighed by the benefits.

As with all things, the negative incidents (if this really qualifies as one) are frequently reported but if nothing is wrong no one is talking about it.

[David.m]

I've also done a little over 10K km with the Fabspeed sportcat installed, no CEL (car otherwise stock), agree with everything specka says. I didn't like the oem chrome tips so installed some copy MPE carbon exhaust tips. Don't think I could give up this sound for an M2C but will instead get a tune towards end of warranty period.

[D CHOI]

Originally Posted by David.m

I've also done a little over 10K km with the Fabspeed sportcat installed, no CEL (car otherwise stock), agree with everything specka says. I didn't like the oem chrome tips so installed some copy MPE carbon exhaust tips. Don't think I could give up this sound for an M2C but will instead get a tune towards end of warranty period.

For a stock car I think the chrome tips looks best on BSM.

As for the DP I agree the sound is pretty damn good for a stock exhaust but I'm planning to upgrade my exhaust and leaning towards FI more than Remus.

[XProject]

I had CEL (P0240) on and off for ~9k. I noticed that CEL came back on every time I took my car to the freeway and drove for >25 miles. Luckily, I haven't seen CEL for 3 months now. It went away by itself. I didn't code it out. Maybe because I filled up the bad gas? I don't know for sure what happened.

btw, I have an O2 spacer installed by the installer. Should I remove it?

[Fabspeed Motorsport]

Originally Posted by specka

I'm just shy of 10,000km with my FS installed, no CEL and frankly, I'd be seriously considering trading to the M2C if it wasn't for this part. It transforms the car, the sound is amazing, to the point that when I was considering adding the M Perf exhaust I quickly realised the stock exhaust with the Sportscat is a much meaner sound at a fraction of the cost.

For me, the very slight risk of a CEL and even the potential inconvenience of having to swap the DP to stock in the event of an issue that isn't easily resolved is vastly outweighed by the benefits.

As with all things, the negative incidents (if this really qualifies as one) are frequently reported but if nothing is wrong no one is talking about it.

Originally Posted by David.m

I've also done a little over 10K km with the Fabspeed sportcat installed, no CEL (car otherwise stock), agree with everything specka says. I didn't like the oem chrome tips so installed some copy MPE carbon exhaust tips. Don't think I could give up this sound for an M2C but will instead get a tune towards end of warranty period.

Great to hear!!1 Glad you are enjoying the SCDP

Originally Posted by XProject

I had CEL (P0240) on and off for ~9k. I noticed that CEL came back on every time I took my car to the freeway and drove for >25 miles. Luckily, I haven't seen CEL for 3 months now. It went away by itself. I didn't code it out. Maybe because I filled up the bad gas? I don't know for sure what happened.

btw, I have an O2 spacer installed by the installer. Should I remove it?

THat p0420 is also due to warming up code. if it only happens at short quick trips it is probably due to the cats not heating up the same as the stock ones did. The O2 spacers are probably not help you out at all.

[stefan]

No offense to anyone here but why is everyone so concerned about an OBD2 O2 sensor related CEL? Just clear it? No DP will be 100% perfect, and over thousands of miles I would say that getting a CEL isn't impossible. But it's a very low risk code. Get yourself a vgate ELM327 bluetooth adapter and off ya go.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by stefan

No offense to anyone here but why is everyone so concerned about an OBD2 O2 sensor related CEL? Just clear it? No DP will be 100% perfect, and over thousands of miles I would say that getting a CEL isn't impossible. But it's a very low risk code. Get yourself a vgate ELM327 bluetooth adapter and off ya go.

Well, because Fabspeed guarantees it to be 100% perfect and no CEL, so most people choose them over the other options because of that guarantee. No one wants the janky solution of running software that automatically clears engine codes, because if something else goes wrong you won't have a CEL to let you know what's up.

If Fabspeed is going to say, "The code P0420 is an issue that can occur with our product, but does so in less than 1% off these installations." Well then they shouldn't be advertising as "No CEL Guaranteed"

Also Fabspeed saying, "If you plug it in and clear the codes, we have never heard of it returning due to our product." When, if you read the OP, he had the code cleared and it returned. So unless they didn't read the OP, it has re-occurred after clearing the code.

Plus, Fabspeed saying "You do not get a CEL with our sport cat dp and you do not have to tune it either." And then saying, "The Sport Cat increases air flow to the engine and when the engine performs its initial routine diagnosis that it does every 50 to 100 miles, it may trigger the code P0420" Is really contradicting... Again, do not market something as "No CEL Guaranteed" if this is the case.

Finally, "we have never heard of one reoccurring after the initial clear or occurring after that 50 to 100 miles threshold is surpassed." So this makes me think a CEL may occur in the first 50-100 miles after installing their sportcat, but, again, they do not advertise that, and if you look at the OP... his CEL didn't occur until after 10,000 miles and came back after clearing it. So, Fabspeed having a two year warranty would be useless to me if I get a CEL after 10,000 miles, because I won't put 10,000 miles on my M2 in two years.

So, with this information, I think they should stop advertising as "No CEL Guaranteed" because that's false advertising. And maybe extend their warranty.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Well, because Fabspeed guarantees it to be 100% perfect and no CEL, so most people choose them over the other options because of that guarantee. No one wants the janky solution of running software that automatically clears engine codes, because if something else goes wrong you won't have a CEL to let you know what's up.

If Fabspeed is going to say, "The code P0420 is an issue that can occur with our product, but does so in less than 1% off these installations." Well then they shouldn't be advertising as "No CEL Guaranteed"

Also Fabspeed saying, "If you plug it in and clear the codes, we have never heard of it returning due to our product." When, if you read the OP, he had the code cleared and it returned. So unless they didn't read the OP, it has re-occurred after clearing the code.

Plus, Fabspeed saying "You do not get a CEL with our sport cat dp and you do not have to tune it either." And then saying, "The Sport Cat increases air flow to the engine and when the engine performs its initial routine diagnosis that it does every 50 to 100 miles, it may trigger the code P0420" Is really contradicting... Again, do not market something as "No CEL Guaranteed" if this is the case.

Finally, "we have never heard of one reoccurring after the initial clear or occurring after that 50 to 100 miles threshold is surpassed." So this makes me think a CEL may occur in the first 50-100 miles after installing their sportcat, but, again, they do not advertise that, and if you look at the OP... his CEL didn't occur until after 10,000 miles and came back after clearing it. So, Fabspeed having a two year warranty would be useless to me if I get a CEL after 10,000 miles, because I won't put 10,000 miles on my M2 in two years.

So, with this information, I think they should stop advertising as "No CEL Guaranteed" because that's false advertising. And maybe extend their warranty.

I honestly agree even though I own their downpipe also. The fact that their "warranty" stipulations put 100% of the onus on the owner of the product to prove to Fabspeed that the cat is failing shows they don't stand behind their product.

Also any automobile company would put their warranty in terms of mileage too. My Remus exhaust does (3 years/unlimited miles).

The fact that Fabspeed skirted around my question asking the mileage lifespan one can expect from their cat just shows that they don't have any real data to back any of their claims. Either that or the a person running the Fabspeed forum account is just a marketing employee and has no technical knowledge.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Anthony1s

Well, because Fabspeed guarantees it to be 100% perfect and no CEL, so most people choose them over the other options because of that guarantee. No one wants the janky solution of running software that automatically clears engine codes, because if something else goes wrong you won't have a CEL to let you know what's up.

If Fabspeed is going to say, "The code P0420 is an issue that can occur with our product, but does so in less than 1% off these installations." Well then they shouldn't be advertising as "No CEL Guaranteed"

Also Fabspeed saying, "If you plug it in and clear the codes, we have never heard of it returning due to our product." When, if you read the OP, he had the code cleared and it returned. So unless they didn't read the OP, it has re-occurred after clearing the code.

Plus, Fabspeed saying "You do not get a CEL with our sport cat dp and you do not have to tune it either." And then saying, "The Sport Cat increases air flow to the engine and when the engine performs its initial routine diagnosis that it does every 50 to 100 miles, it may trigger the code P0420" Is really contradicting... Again, do not market something as "No CEL Guaranteed" if this is the case.

Finally, "we have never heard of one reoccurring after the initial clear or occurring after that 50 to 100 miles threshold is surpassed." So this makes me think a CEL may occur in the first 50-100 miles after installing their sportcat, but, again, they do not advertise that, and if you look at the OP... his CEL didn't occur until after 10,000 miles and came back after clearing it. So, Fabspeed having a two year warranty would be useless to me if I get a CEL after 10,000 miles, because I won't put 10,000 miles on my M2 in two years.

So, with this information, I think they should stop advertising as "No CEL Guaranteed" because that's false advertising. And maybe extend their warranty.

This didn't really answer my question and in no way am I recommending a "janky solution to automatically clear codes" whatever that means. What I am saying is O2-sensor related emissions codes are NBD. I do agree with you no DP is going to be perfect except the stock one. What I am saying is--just clear the CEL for the post-cat O2 sensor error whenever it comes up and call it day. I don't see the issue here. Don't get me wrong--not having a CEL is really nice and it's why I went with the FI DP. But if I *did* get a CEL (which I haven't), I wouldn't sweat it. I'd clear it and move on. If you were to get a CEL with Fabspeed, I imagine it doesn't come up very often, maybe over the course of thousands of miles. The way O2 sensor errors work is there has to be hundreds of individual anomalous sensor readings before it tosses a CEL. It doesn't just trigger with a few outlier values. So with a quality 200+cell cat on there, you're not going to get CELs very often if at all. But if you do.. I don't see what the fuss is about.

edit: oh the lifespan for the cats is about 150,000km or until they start to smell a little sour.

[Anthony1s]

Originally Posted by stefan

This didn't really answer my question and in no way am I recommending a "janky solution to automatically clear codes" whatever that means. What I am saying is O2-sensor related emissions codes are NBD. I do agree with you no DP is going to be perfect except the stock one. What I am saying is--just clear the CEL for the post-cat O2 sensor error whenever it comes up and call it day. I don't see the issue here. Don't get me wrong--not having a CEL is really nice and it's why I went with the FI DP. But if I *did* get a CEL (which I haven't), I wouldn't sweat it. I'd clear it and move on. If you were to get a CEL with Fabspeed, I imagine it doesn't come up very often, maybe over the course of thousands of miles. The way O2 sensor errors work is there has to be hundreds of individual anomalous sensor readings before it tosses a CEL. It doesn't just trigger with a few outlier values. So with a quality 200+cell cat on there, you're not going to get CELs very often if at all. But if you do.. I don't see what the fuss is about.

edit: oh the lifespan for the cats is about 150,000km or until they start to smell a little sour.

I did answer your question. You asked "why is everyone so concerned about an OBD2 O2 sensor related CEL?" That's the question I answered. To answer more specifically, no one is concerned about that. No one is arguing the code or downpipe is harmful or dangerous. They are concerned about having a CEL from something that guarantees no CEL and the additional steps they need to take to correct the issue. ie, buying a scan tool to manually clear the codes, buying tune to automatically clear the codes, or finding someone to read the codes to make sure it's downpipe related and not something else and then clear the code, finding someone to do o2 reports before a warranty can be fulfilled, etc. The potential for all this hassle from something that advertises it's guaranteed to be perfect. You can argue that it's no big deal to do all of this. Which it may not be a big deal to you. But it is a big deal to me and others have expressed the same concerns.

"I do agree with you no DP is going to be perfect except the stock one." ...No, we don't agree, because I never said no downpipe is going to be perfect. I said Fabspeed guarantees their downpipe to be perfect. So it's assumed that both the stock downpipe AND Fabspeed downpipe will both be perfect. That is why people buy them.

[nioh_lbbm2]

@stefan
Not trying to cause an argument here regarding longevity of cats in terms of mileage. I'm just stating obvious here.

The fact that Phil from Fabspeed can only provide anecdotal thoughts on the longevity of other HJS cats shows that Fabspeed themselves have not done enough testing to definitively say how long their own sport cat last.

BMW has a warranty on the stock cat up to 80k miles. That gives people a general idea of the lifespan for THEIR branded product.

Fabspeed can only give generic, anecdotal evidence and every brand's cats are NOT the same even if they use HJS cores (e.g. Wagner uses HJS and has pretty good success rate of no CEL but they can't make that guarantee of no CEL and some people do get CEL). Fabspeed haven't given any good indication that they know how long their own sport cat offering will last. So all I can gather from their warranty is that I can expect 2 years of an average mileage driver's use (the average driver in the US drives around 12,000 miles/year according to the US DOT). So I'm going to assume Fabspeed's sport cat lasts 24k miles unless they can empirically tell us otherwise.