[Wolfman’s Brother]

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

what I would like to do is improve throttle response and allow it to rev more freely not juts add hp in the midrange and drop off at higher revs moving the peak power lower down the curve

Interested about the diverter and inlet pipe any more insight to what these do ?

Nothing is going to make this motor “free reving” like a NA motor with a light weight fly-wheel. The character of the motor is the character of the motor to a large degree without addressing factors like cams/flywheel/exhaust mani.

If you can’t be with the one you love (:caugh: GT3) then love the one you’re with.

[GeraldM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Edit.

“ Downpipe, intercooler, charge pipes and dyno tune.” - Bob, who owns Stage FP (my tune) did this.

What software are you using and did u have to upgrade any fueling components? If you didn't do u notice any issues with fueling because of the tune? This tune looks to be something similar to what I want

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by GeraldM2

What software are you using and did u have to upgrade any fueling components? If you didn't do u notice any issues with fueling because of the tune? This tune looks to be something similar to what I want

This particular tune is for the M2, I have a M235i, so mine is a tad different. Otherwise, this tune was done without a diverter, inlet or fuel pump - with those mods, it’s possible the gains would be better.

In fact, it’s possible to max out the fuel pump on pump gas - this tune does not do that.

Edit: Bob works with all major tune platforms, including BM3 and MHD (which is what I have) one thing I like about the tune is the ability to hold power towards redline. The OTS tunes just don’t do that, with MHD being the worst. The power is down to 300whp at redline.

[Carrera2RS]

Originally Posted by Wolfman’s Brother

Nothing is going to make this motor “free reving” like a NA motor with a light weight fly-wheel. The character of the motor is the character of the motor to a large degree without addressing factors like cams/flywheel/exhaust mani.

If you can’t be with the one you love (:caugh: GT3) then love the one you’re with.

I get you here for sure (I used to build F1 engines in the 80's and have a degree in automotive engineering, in the 90's I heavily modified a 964 RS with individual butterflies, cams and mapped in on Motech). I definitely get the reality to the situation, just hoping that a bottleneck somewhere would allow the motor to feel a bit 'stronger' and revvier (if that's a word). Perhaps the big bulge in the mid doesn't feel so 'its all over by 5,000 rpm'. I actually like the feeling of short shifting, not needing to touch the red line, but I like the feeling that I'm still on the torque curve

[Carrera2RS]

Perhaps keeping the budget down inlet pipes and intercooler pipes and a DV might improve things and follow on with an expensive 300 cell down pipe later ?

Ive never used Evolve but they seem to like the Masata charge pipe if the MST is a tight fit ?

[Wolfman’s Brother]

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

I get you here for sure (I used to build F1 engines in the 80's and have a degree in automotive engineering, in the 90's I heavily modified a 964 RS with individual butterflies, cams and mapped in on Motech). I definitely get the reality to the situation, just hoping that a bottleneck somewhere would allow the motor to feel a bit 'stronger' and revvier (if that's a word). Perhaps the big bulge in the mid doesn't feel so 'its all over by 5,000 rpm'. I actually like the feeling of short shifting, not needing to touch the red line, but I like the feeling that I'm still on the torque curve

Well F me I’ll sit down then

But seriously, If you look at dyno graphs of FBO stage 2 tuned cars from 5500 - 7000 the N55 is producing as much power as a M2C. I’m confident if you followed that FBO stage 2 path, you’ll be much happier with the feel of running the car out to redline.

The torque party is there when you want to ride that wave, but it’s just as happy to get spun up and shifted at red to use the hp between 55-7 now that I’m modified.

Start with a standard off the shelf BM3 tune with bolt ons and if you’re still not happy get a custom tune from there.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

Perhaps keeping the budget down inlet pipes and intercooler pipes and a DV might improve things and follow on with an expensive 300 cell down pipe later ?

Ive never used Evolve but they seem to like the Masata charge pipe if the MST is a tight fit ?

The only gripe I have is you have to pay more in the UK (compared to us) for "Less" The Masata stuff is basically on par with BMS/VRSF (maybe better QC) for a heavy markup.

I would reach out to mike@x-ph.com (BAM I FIGURED OUT HOW TO TAG HIM) to see what he has available, his costs are usually the most reasonable.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1744723



Bee Pee Also dynoed the inlet at about 10WHP in the upper RPM region. I would also Contact Bob from Stage FP to get a variant of tune I posted prior. You'll notice it hold over 360WHP from 55XXRPM to 6500RPM. Most off the shelf tunes are already losing power after power peak.

It looks great on paper, but the reality is that sustaining power another 400rpm and gaining a few extra ponies isn't going to make a measurably quicker/faster car under ~120mph. It's not until the longer gears will gains in a such a narrow portion of the powerband be realized. I have hard time seeing that the car with the slightly better powerband would even pull a car length by 140mph. From 0-110mph? No difference at all. This is all based on my drag racing experience over the years and the effects of power gains on 1/4 mile ET and MPH.

[XutvJet]

I find it pretty impressive that these EWG N55s make peak power at ~6,200rpms and sustain it to nearly 6600rpms before choking out. Most other late model gasoline turbo motors on the market make max power near 5,000rpms and are done by 5,500rpms. The BMW S55s and S58s are even more impressive for a turbo motor in terms of their ability to breath in the upper rpms.

I also find the power to be pretty linear, especially compared to the powerbands of the N54 and early N55s with the smaller turbo and pneumatic wastegate. Those motors made peak power around 5,400rpms, and when tuned, at around ~5,000rpms.

Yes, there can be a wallop of torque in the lower rpms with the N55 when hammering it, but that's the nature of a turbo. Put a heavy engine load on them and you get a lot of torque in return. In stock form, BMW neuters the turbo power delivery a bit to create a more linear, naturally aspirated feel. In the N55, S55, B58, and S58, BMW is running slightly larger turbos than needed to get that higher rpm breathing and manipulate boost/power delivery through EWG control to make torque thick, abundant, and generally manageable across a large range of rpms. It's also largely why it's so easy to gain so much power across the powerband so easily with a basic tune.

You can probably tailor the power delivery to be even more linear, but that's going to come at the cost making for a slower than stock car. If you want more upper rpm power and peak power at like 7000rpms, you'd need to go with a larger turbo and then have the tuner work some EWG magic below 5000rpms. With all that, I doubt the car would be any quicker than a Stage 1 tuned M2 N55. The N55s would have different shaped powerbands, but likely similar power under the curve and that's what ultimately dictates overall acceleration.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Notaligned2

Hi, a year or two ago I read a post here from someone that had their tuner "detune" (for lack of a better word) his M2 so that it would mimic an NA car pulling to 6500RPM instead of going flat from 5500RPM to 6500RPM as they are stock.

I thought of this post last Saturday when I took my Exige for a drive. I don't drive it much anymore, but when I do I'm always impressed, especially with the immediacy of the power delivery, and how it pulls hard all the way to 8,500 rpm. It isn't nearly as powerful as my M2, but the way the power comes on, and how it sustains is just fantastic. Full disclosure, it's not stock, but really only has I/E/T.

[6speed_M2]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

I thought of this post last Saturday when I took my Exige for a drive. I don't drive it much anymore, but when I do I'm always impressed, especially with the immediacy of the power delivery, and how it pulls hard all the way to 8,500 rpm. It isn't nearly as powerful as my M2, but the way the power comes on, and how it sustains is just fantastic. Full disclosure, it's not stock, but really only has I/E/T.

Our N55's are definitely suffering on the stock turbo. I guess it depends on the tune as well. In theory you could detune torque so it evenly lines up with the horsepower.

For example, my current tune is about 420whp & 420wtq on a half tank of ethanol versus the E30 BM3 map, that did 415whp & 440wtq, or the E30+ map that put down 445whp & 500wtq. The logs/dynos didn't look too great on either bm3 map from what I believe to be the heat soak off of the stock turbo's limitations & a little bit of my intercooler (Wagner Evo II).

Lowering torque is supposed to help prevent heat soak and keep the higher RPM's cleaner. If we run a upgraded turbo & stage 3 intercooler we should be fine. Also, NA is just different. I think back to my E90 M3 days. I wouldn't trade that car for my M2 now, but the engine/throttle response/high revving feel & sound was very different & a truly special engine. NA + manual is a dynamic duo!

This is another reason why I personally love the S55 & S58 engine especially. The factory turbos produce more power than our N55's & the technology with the air to water cooling versus our air to air is a huge step in the right direction.

People with the S58's are ripping 9.9 second 1/4 mile times off of race gas & a tune alone. I'd imagine the dyno graphs & other data is healthy as well for those cars. They're putting down around 550-600whp on pump gas off of a tune alone… pair that with AWD & you're the red light king next to anything that's not a Tesla Plaid or a million dollar supercar.

[Carrera2RS]

Any good recommended tuners in the UK, I have used Litchfield and have been very happy with the suspension work but not sure if they might be focussed on bigger fish (GTR,Porsche)

I live in Bath, so Litchfield are quite close. In many ways it would be great to see other members cars, shame there doesn't seem to be much happening that I have noticed in the UK

Still thinking of perhaps Inlet and intercooler pipes and Turbosmart DV to start with ?

Seems the DV reduces a little of the lag and improve throttle response and possibly the pipe swap allows a little better breathing. I have the upgraded intercooler which helped

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by 6speed_M2

This is another reason why I personally love the S55 & S58 engine especially. The factory turbos produce more power than our N55's & the technology with the air to water cooling versus our air to air is a huge step in the right direction.

I can't get past the sound of the S55. I do like the intercooler, and the fact that it breathes better up top, but since I don't race my car they're non-issues.

[6speed_M2]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

I can't get past the sound of the S55. I do like the intercooler, and the fact that it breathes better up top, but since I don't race my car they're non-issues.

That makes sense. I personally don't mind the sound even though I'm not the biggest fan of it either. It's no where near the N55 (especially when one or both are catless). Although I would add that the active autowerke equal length midpipe helps the S55 substantially.

[boldy1]

Originally Posted by Carrera2RS

Any good recommended tuners in the UK, I have used Litchfield and have been very happy with the suspension work but not sure if they might be focussed on bigger fish (GTR,Porsche)

I live in Bath, so Litchfield are quite close. In many ways it would be great to see other members cars, shame there doesn't seem to be much happening that I have noticed in the UK

Still thinking of perhaps Inlet and intercooler pipes and Turbosmart DV to start with ?

Seems the DV reduces a little of the lag and improve throttle response and possibly the pipe swap allows a little better breathing. I have the upgraded intercooler which helped

there's alot going on tuning wise in the UK with the m2 bud, the quickest 1/4 mile m2 is from here to start.

[Carrera2RS]

Blimey I've still done nothing here !.....

I heard good things about JB4, is BM3 a better or similar option

[AmuroRay]

Plotted one of my older logs in VD:



I still think @MASHCT tune is beautiful:

[AmuroRay]

I think someone mentioned this - I ran across it



From here:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1394397

A good custom could likely do better, but you won’t gain much peak power on the stock fuel pump and pump gas.

[Notaligned2]

Originally Posted by atlas

Maybe this one?

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1454381

Yes I think that was the one. Thank you very much.

Although the chart looks a little less impressive from 5500 to 6300 than I have built it up in my mind over the last few years remembering it (not talking about peak numbers, just the shape of it).

custom tuned by ProTuning Freak

...and I think these are the same people that have the only fix for throttle lag when changing gear (https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1699999) so it sounds like for an owner stars have aligned that you wouldn't have to give up throttle lag fix for this map.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1744723

These graphs look unreal but he's using 103RON fuel apparently, and maybe the dyno is a little optimisic.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Notaligned2

Yes I think that was the one. Thank you very much.

Although the chart looks a little less impressive from 5500 to 6300 than I have built it up in my mind over the last few years remembering it (not talking about peak numbers, just the shape of it).



...and I think these are the same people that have the only fix for throttle lag when changing gear (https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1699999) so it sounds like for an owner stars have aligned that you wouldn't have to give up throttle lag fix for this map.




These graphs look unreal but he's using 103RON fuel apparently, and maybe the dyno is a little optimisic.

The dyno is measuring engine output and not wheel horsepower

I had my own dyno :




Very linear, but was hoping to see the power increasing until 6000rpm. Maybe on the next revision.