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      10-08-2021, 07:01 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Thicker oil=more resistance =more heat. Downside of better protection.
But at really high temperatures it will actually transfer heat better into surrounding.
5w-40 also seems to heat up a good bit faster than the FE 0w-30 right? or am i imagining? the dealer FE stuff took forever to get to full temp.
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      10-08-2021, 07:28 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmoney View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Thicker oil=more resistance =more heat. Downside of better protection.
But at really high temperatures it will actually transfer heat better into surrounding.
5w-40 also seems to heat up a good bit faster than the FE 0w-30 right? or am i imagining? the dealer FE stuff took forever to get to full temp.
Yes. Bcs. resistance. But that doesn't mean it is more economical. FE is thinner during warm up=less heat=lower consumption. Problem with these FE oils is when you push car.
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      10-08-2021, 08:52 PM   #245
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300V 10W-40 heats up slower than OEM 0W-30 oil in my car.
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      10-08-2021, 10:45 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
300V 10W-40 heats up slower than OEM 0W-30 oil in my car.
Specific base stocks designed to dissipate heat as fast as possible. Esters are really good at that.
Not good if you do short commute as 300V needs high temperatures for additives to work at full potential: track.
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      10-08-2021, 10:59 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Specific base stocks designed to dissipate heat as fast as possible. Esters are really good at that.
Not good if you do short commute as 300V needs high temperatures for additives to work at full potential: track.
What I noticed for PPE 5w40 is it behaves pretty similarly to BMW tpt 0W30, gets to operating temperature at the same rate and stabilizes at about 94C which is the same as 0W30. This is likely due to PPE being a low viscosity 40 weight.
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      10-08-2021, 11:16 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Specific base stocks designed to dissipate heat as fast as possible. Esters are really good at that.
Not good if you do short commute as 300V needs high temperatures for additives to work at full potential: track.
What I noticed for PPE 5w40 is it behaves pretty similarly to BMW tpt 0W30, gets to operating temperature at the same rate and stabilizes at about 94C which is the same as 0W30. This is likely due to PPE being a low viscosity 40 weight.
Low viscosity 40 and I am suspecting that GTL base stocks have good heat dissipation.
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      11-24-2021, 07:38 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by edycol View Post
So, first, high ambient temperature is not going to wreck havoc on cooling. 105 or 120, it is ok. In MO, absolutely not to worry.
I forgot to ask you, with temps falling, do you have a recommendation on when it's ok to drive the car hard, as far as oil temp? I've read a lot of people saying x miles, but that doesn't make any sense to me because as temps fall it'll take more miles to get to the correct OT. 160°F seems to be the number I'm reading a lot, but that's where my gauge starts, so 160° flat can't be the right answer. One guy said "the moment I see the gauge needle move", which seems to be correct if 160° really is the magic number.

I paid close attention today and my car never gets past the 200 mark, and takes a bit to get there, so I imagine that 200°F is where it's fully warm.

I really wish this car had one of those high-rpm limiters like my S2000 had, and my Exige currently has, but they're pretty high-revving engines, so I wonder if it's safe to run the lower-revving N55 a bit harder, earlier. I guess I'm wondering if it's the rpm's that are important, or the power/throttle used. I usually try to stay between 2,000 rpm and 2500 rpm in normal driving, until I feel like the car is warm, but I wonder if 3,000 or even 5000 would be acceptable if it's not fully warm.

Any thoughts on this matter?
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      11-24-2021, 11:04 PM   #250
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200 is ok. You actually want to punch it a bit if it doesn't want to go over 200. Probably you have bit too strong heat set up on HVAC that cools off coolant and with that oil.
You actually want oil to be above 212f in order to evaporate any fuel. If it doesn't, hit it hard once it gets around 200. Also, in the morning drive few miles with HVAC set up at dead cold and vent just on minimum. That will speed up coolant warm up and bcs. N55/S55 have heat exchanger, it will speed up oil warm up too.
My oil temperature gauge starts also around there, bit lower, 50c. I wait until it gets to 180-200f. Then I drive more aggressively in order to get oil above 212, bcs. fuel.
Now which oil? In MO where you at, it is irrelevant whether oil is 0WXX or 5WXX. I would go XW30. You actually want lower KV100 in winter bcs. that means better flow at 50f or 100f than XW40. Not by much, but still there is difference. Now, which oil? My go to oil in winter is Castrol Edge 0W30 ACEA A3. Available on Amazon, bit more expensive.
Now if you are willing to do experiment, you could try Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 which is LL04. IMO it should do well in 5K interval in S55. I would do UOA with TBN and TAN analysis. If everything checks out, you have cheap, excellent oil for winter.
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      11-25-2021, 08:26 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
200 is ok. You actually want to punch it a bit if it doesn't want to go over 200. You actually want oil to be above 212f in order to evaporate any fuel. If it doesn't, hit it hard once it gets around 200. I wait until it gets to 180-200f. Then I drive more aggressively in order to get oil above 212, bcs. fuel.
Got it. Give it a bit of stick at 180 to get it to 200, then I can work her over. Perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Probably you have bit too strong heat set up on HVAC that cools off coolant and with that oil. Also, in the morning drive few miles with HVAC set up at dead cold and vent just on minimum. That will speed up coolant warm up and bcs.
My commute is 8.8 miles (14 minutes), so I never actually use the heat, I rely on the heated steering wheel, and heated seat (temps rarely get below freezing in my garage at home, so the car isn't that cold). On the return trip the car is obviously much colder, but I always let it run for a few minutes before I take off. I know a lot of guys don't like to do this, but it doesn't bother me to do so). I still don't use the heat in that 8.8 miles. I only use heat when it's hot, and it doesn't get hot in that short of a distance. I also remember the old trick years ago when a car was overheating to turn on the heater full blast to cool it down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Now which oil? In MO where you at, it is irrelevant whether oil is 0WXX or 5WXX. I would go XW30. You actually want lower KV100 in winter bcs. that means better flow at 50f or 100f than XW40. Not by much, but still there is difference. Now, which oil? My go to oil in winter is Castrol Edge 0W30 ACEA A3. Available on Amazon, bit more expensive. Now if you are willing to do experiment, you could try Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 which is LL04.
I have the N55, and just bought 15 quarts of Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 for a great deal. It was on the recommendation of several guys here, you included. I think it'll work perfectly.

Thanks for the detailed reply!!

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      11-25-2021, 11:13 PM   #252
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I would not run car few minutes before hitting road. I don't do that when skiing all day here in the Rockies and I start it at -30 sometimes. Reason is that your head keeps certain amount of oil and even if it doesn't, after few seconds you already have proper lubrication.
By idling your mixture is rich for prolonged period of time, washing cylinder walls, mixing more fuel with oil than necessary.
Turn the car, put seatbelt, adjust seat warmers, find your song, hit the road. You will reach operating temperature faster, eliminate faster any fuel from oil and prevent more fuel mixing with oil.
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      11-26-2021, 02:24 AM   #253
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Got it. Give it a bit of stick at 180 to get it to 200, then I can work her over. Perfect.



My commute is 8.8 miles (14 minutes), so I never actually use the heat, I rely on the heated steering wheel, and heated seat (temps rarely get below freezing in my garage at home, so the car isn't that cold). On the return trip the car is obviously much colder, but I always let it run for a few minutes before I take off. I know a lot of guys don't like to do this, but it doesn't bother me to do so). I still don't use the heat in that 8.8 miles. I only use heat when it's hot, and it doesn't get hot in that short of a distance. I also remember the old trick years ago when a car was overheating to turn on the heater full blast to cool it down.



I have the N55, and just bought 15 quarts of Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 for a great deal. It was on the recommendation of several guys here, you included. I think it'll work perfectly.

Thanks for the detailed reply!!

warm up in comfort mode it gets oil temps up faster because it uses a less agressive cooling profile. Like you, when I am in sport+ my oil temps stay stuck at 94C or ~200F. So I warm up my oil temps in comfort to get them to spike rapidly, and it will even reach 100C in this mode.


But I do idle my car, sure you may get fuel dilution but coming from cars with built engines or fragile pistons, if you don't let the car warm up properly you end up experiencing premature wear and tear. I'm sure with the cast hypereutectic pistons you won't have the crazy expansion and contraction forged pistons do, but I always let it warm up to 42C (probably a few mins of idling) a bit just to ensure we aren't asking too much of the rod bearings since rpms do hit 3k when I drive otherwise 1st gear is way too slow in a 6speed if I short shift it.
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      11-26-2021, 11:15 AM   #254
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Guys I respectfully disagree with idling. With these oils there is absolutely no need to keep idling for several minutes. It is not only introducing fuel to oil, but washing cylinder walls with basically solvent. I bet you if you do UOA after 5k idling and then 5k of not idling, in latter one you will have lower wear and oil will have higher flash point, less shear etc.
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      11-26-2021, 02:24 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
warm up in comfort mode it gets oil temps up faster because it uses a less agressive cooling profile. Like you, when I am in sport+ my oil temps stay stuck at 94C or ~200F. So I warm up my oil temps in comfort to get them to spike rapidly
I have read about this, but didn't think it would be that much of a difference, so I didn't bother. It's habit for me to click it to Sport the moment the car starts. But I'll try it in Comfort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
But I do idle my car.
I only idle mine so the car is quicker to heat once I do have heat available. I figured with these modern oils there was no need for idle protection.


Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Guys I respectfully disagree with idling. With these oils there is absolutely no need to keep idling for several minutes. It is not only introducing fuel to oil, but washing cylinder walls with basically solvent. I bet you if you do UOA after 5k idling and then 5k of not idling, in latter one you will have lower wear and oil will have higher flash point, less shear etc.
I hear you, and believe you, but would welcome the additional oil issues and wear if I could get remote start so I could let it idle for 5 minutes before I got in. Too bad that it isn't available at any cost.
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      11-26-2021, 02:45 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Guys I respectfully disagree with idling. With these oils there is absolutely no need to keep idling for several minutes. It is not only introducing fuel to oil, but washing cylinder walls with basically solvent. I bet you if you do UOA after 5k idling and then 5k of not idling, in latter one you will have lower wear and oil will have higher flash point, less shear etc.
For forged engines you have to idle, or else piston slap will be quite bad, and that'll introduce way more wear and tear than fuel dilution from idling.

With a stock engine you may be right about not idling too long.
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      11-26-2021, 02:51 PM   #257
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I have read about this, but didn't think it would be that much of a difference, so I didn't bother. It's habit for me to click it to Sport the moment the car starts. But I'll try it in Comfort.



I only idle mine so the car is quicker to heat once I do have heat available. I figured with these modern oils there was no need for idle protection.




I hear you, and believe you, but would welcome the additional oil issues and wear if I could get remote start so I could let it idle for 5 minutes before I got in. Too bad that it isn't available at any cost.
There is a remote start system for BMW's, just not cheap and only for autos. https://www.eurostart.com/product/brs3

Iirc the first time I saw this in use was locally on an X5, with their X5 model.
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      11-26-2021, 04:30 PM   #258
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There is a remote start system for BMW's, just not cheap and only for autos. https://www.eurostart.com/product/brs3

Iirc the first time I saw this in use was locally on an X5, with their X5 model.
I'd pay double that to get it in my 6MT. Maybe I just need a hacker. lol
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      11-26-2021, 04:36 PM   #259
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I'd pay double that to get it in my 6MT. Maybe I just need a hacker. lol
I think I saw a guy locally who used this thing on a 6 speed, you just need to add a hand brake sensor or just straight up take the risk and bypass it iirc. The company doesn't offer it for a 6 speed because they don't want people to leave it in gear and accidentally start the car.

Contact the company and see if the'll make it happen for you.
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      11-26-2021, 05:14 PM   #260
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I think I saw a guy locally who used this thing on a 6 speed, you just need to add a hand brake sensor or just straight up take the risk and bypass it iirc. The company doesn't offer it for a 6 speed because they don't want people to leave it in gear and accidentally start the car.

Contact the company and see if the'll make it happen for you.
I'm not that techy...but I'd buy this tomorrow if it's an easy process.

Let me know if you run into that guy again!
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      11-26-2021, 10:58 PM   #261
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edycol View Post
Guys I respectfully disagree with idling. With these oils there is absolutely no need to keep idling for several minutes. It is not only introducing fuel to oil, but washing cylinder walls with basically solvent. I bet you if you do UOA after 5k idling and then 5k of not idling, in latter one you will have lower wear and oil will have higher flash point, less shear etc.
I've been thinking about this more and I'd actually like to see some oil analysis data to see how much of an impact idling has on the oil.

I honestly do not think there is any impact or at the very most a very minor impact, because we are talking about a direct Injected car not port Injected. So this means fuel is sprayed directly into the cylinders and there's less chance of it running down the sides of the cylinder walls, unlike port inject cars where the fuel has to run down the valves and atomize. Also when idling it is extremely lean and fuelling is timed based on where the piston is in the stroke cycle, so there's not going to be very little fuel in the cylinder for a very short period of time before combustion, so cylinder wash down will likely not even be a factor imo.


This might be a huge problem on a port Injected car likely sti, that ran super rich. But honestly on a direct inject car that idles extremely lean, I doubt there's enough fuel being sprayed into the cylinders that sticks around for long enough to cause wash down.
Wait, the whole industry is built trying to negate effects of fuel dilution in direct injected engines. Honda's still today, 18 years after VW introduced fuel dilution monsters known as FSI and TFSI, has issues. Port injected engines are not a bit of an issue here. They do run rich, but DI engines can wrack havoc on oil. The whole reason why BMW didn't use LL04 oils in North America is fuel dilution and the fact that NA gas had huge amount of sulphur. That fuel dilution and sulphur would kill additives in oil.
Regardless that fuel is dispersed under high pressure there is more fuel in DI engines during rich phase that ends up on cylinder walls and gets washed down. BMW generally didn't have such big issues as VW/Audi had but, N/S55 are still DI engines.
Than oil shear caused by fuel affects wear and tear, flash point, oxidation, name it.
That is why these DI engines do much worse in city driving regime than their port brothers. I just did 5k UOA on my wife's Tiguan which is driven 90% in city. Compared to UOA I did when vehicle saw regularly hwy drive, this time it completely wrecked oil (M1 ESP 0W30), iron is high, oxidation is high etc.
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      11-26-2021, 11:04 PM   #262
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Quote:
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Wait, the whole industry is built trying to negate effects of fuel dilution in direct injected engines. Honda's still today, 18 years after VW introduced fuel dilution monsters known as FSI and TFSI, has issues. Port injected engines are not a bit of an issue here. They do run rich, but DI engines can wrack havoc on oil. The whole reason why BMW didn't use LL04 oils in North America is fuel dilution and the fact that NA gas had huge amount of sulphur. That fuel dilution and sulphur would kill additives in oil.
Regardless that fuel is dispersed under high pressure there is more fuel in DI engines during rich phase that ends up on cylinder walls and gets washed down. BMW generally didn't have such big issues as VW/Audi had but, N/S55 are still DI engines.
Than oil shear caused by fuel affects wear and tear, flash point, oxidation, name it.
That is why these DI engines do much worse in city driving regime than their port brothers. I just did 5k UOA on my wife's Tiguan which is driven 90% in city. Compared to UOA I did when vehicle saw regularly hwy drive, this time it completely wrecked oil (M1 ESP 0W30), iron is high, oxidation is high etc.
Yup I got PI and DI mixed up, hence why I deleted the post. Had to reread the articles on it.
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      11-27-2021, 06:06 AM   #263
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My old mazdaspeed 3 was notorious for bad fuel dilution. I think it was Mazdas first gas DI motor. The catch can I had on it would be 80% fuel lol.
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      12-03-2021, 08:22 AM   #264
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Anyone know why Quaker State 5w40 Euro Synthetic (Did Ultimate Durability change label?) is not available in the US in 5Qt jugs? That was such a great buy at Walmart for barely $20 for 5 qt jug but I haven't been able to find them in 2-3 months.
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