[VisualEcho]

Hey guys, I recently replaced my new Michelin Pilot Sport PS4S tires with the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 and I thought I'd share my thoughts on the differences I've found. From reading previous reviews, there is nothing new here, really, except I find them to be much more fun than the PS4S.

First I want to point out that my commute is only 14 total miles 3 days a week (30mph to 65 mph), and the rest of my driving is for fun (but I have never, and will never track the car). We have 4 seasons here in Missouri, so I have a Winter set of wheels and tires for the colder months.

• I had my stock sized PS4S tires on 763M wheels for 1,600 miles, and they were fantastic. I can't imagine a technically better Summer tire. They cost me $1294 from TireRack.

• I've had my 265/30 & 285/30 Indy's on my BC Forged KL11's for 300 miles, and they're not as grippy, but infinitely better for my purposes. They cost me $967 from TireRack.

When I made the decision to get different, wider wheels, I first researched the PS4S in the most common size for 9.5 & 10.5, which is 255/35 & 275/35. My problem with them was the price, how long they last, and the tread widths. I did consider the 265/30 & 285/30 PS4S as well, but the 285 is just too skinny. I'm an automotive photographer by trade, so sidewall and tread aesthetics is very important to me.

I had known about the Indy 500's reputation for being a great bang for the buck for quite a while, but didn't realize what a great all around Summer tire it really was until I got it.

First, the con's:
1. The Indy doesn't have near the dry grip of the PS4S. It's immediately apparent that it's a 340 treadwear tire and struggles for grip on even medium launches, and the front end pushes more out of every corner.
2. They're heavier (good thing I got lighter wheels).


And now the pro's:
1. They're less expensive by $401 and a new set of rears is $551, so in my mind it's really only $150 for my 2nd set of rears.
2. They have plenty of grip for a street driven car.
3. They allow the car to move around a bit more, and are literally more fun to drive on (IMO).
4. I don't feel bad about beating on them regularly because they're so inexpensive.
5. They're better looking in sidewall, and tread (IMO).
6. They will undoubtedly last quite a bit longer with 10/32 of tread vs the PS4S just under 9/32 (TR shows that they are 9.5, but they aren't, I measured them from new).
7. The tread-width's are matched almost flawlessly, unlike the PS4S.


The neutrals:
1. They're fantastic in the rain, probably 15% less grippy than the PS4S, but since they will last a lot longer (especially the rears) if there is a winner here it's the Indy (IMO).
2. They're just as quiet, or as near as makes no difference. And again, as the tire wears, if there is a winner here, it's going to be the Indy.

Overall I'm super happy with my purchase, and would do it again 100 times out of 100. BUT, tires depend on use, so what I'm saying is that I prefer the Indy to the PS4S for my particular usage. I wouldn't kick the PS4S out of bed, but knowing how short the rear life is (driving them for fun), and how much longer the front tires last compared to the rears, I think it's a much more significant investment to go with the PS4S.

[SebsM2]

Thanks for the comparison, Andrew.
I agree wholeheartedly. You suggested them to me a few months ago and I haven't looked back.

I came from PSS and I found the Indys have nearly the same dry grip. They are just as quiet as well.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by SebsM2

Thanks for the comparison, Andrew.
I agree wholeheartedly. You suggested them to me a few months ago and I haven't looked back.

I came from PSS and I found the Indys have nearly the same dry grip. They are just as quiet as well.

Glad you like 'em bro!

[c1pher]

I think these are great tires for the money and definitely worth considering.

[DanG]

I live in the rainy northwest. Wet performance is
King in my book. I went with PS4s. I don't run winter tires.

If it snows we use my wife's CX-5 AWD.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by DanG

I live in the rainy northwest. Wet performance is
King in my book. I went with PS4s. I don't run winter tires.

If it snows we use my wife's CX-5 AWD.

I think you'll find the rain performance with the Firehawk nearly as good as the PS4S when new, and as soon as the PS4S starts to age, the Firehawk will surpass it easily...and for a longer time.

This Winter will be my M's last seeing inclement weather, as I get the wife's RDX next year when she gets a new car. Luckily we don't get real Winter here, and it doesn't last long.

[Carrera2RS]

I also hear very good things about the Goodyear F1 Eagle Supersport, when I swap up to 275/35 and 255/35 I'm thinking of Goodyear or Michelin Cup 2 / PS4S / PSS. I may actually stick with PSS as seems they have stiffer sidewalls so have a sharper feel and I like the feel of the 245's at the moment (Litchfield coilover suspension, -ve camber hubs)

[AUSf22]

Good writeup! I also agree that the firestone sidewall looks better, it is nice and square.. almost like a semi slick tyre.

[Rainey94]

Great compairo.
I have had the PSS, PS4S and Indy 500s on my previous 135i. My findings were very similar. The wet performance is certainly better on the PS4S, though even on track I found the Indy 500s were not that far off in terms of total dry grip. I did find they (500s) were a little more temperamental when it came to tire pressures. Hard to beat the bang for the buck of the 500s, if money doesn't matter though the PS4S are also fantastic.

Can't wait to experiment on the M2 soon as I imagine my cup 2s wont last too long.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Rainey94

Great compairo.
I have had the PSS, PS4S and Indy 500s on my previous 135i. My findings were very similar. The wet performance is certainly better on the PS4S, though even on track I found the Indy 500s were not that far off in terms of total dry grip. I did find they (500s) were a little more temperamental when it came to tire pressures. Hard to beat the bang for the buck of the 500s, if money doesn't matter though the PS4S are also fantastic.

Can't wait to experiment on the M2 soon as I imagine my cup 2s wont last too long.

I have this thing I do often with the M2, literally every time I come to a stoplight and I'm first. I'll turn the TC off, and when the light turns green I'll pull away normal, get into second gear normal, but as the rev's rise I'll hammer it and paint 2 black stripes for 10-20 feet. I adore it. It's something to do with actually being moving at a decent pace and then losing traction (I know guys that can do it in 4th gear at 70 mph). And of course, every time I come out of the car-wash it's sideways, but that doesn't cause that much wear.

Thing is though, with the PS4S it hinders this fun quite a bit because a.) the tires cost so damn much, and b.) they grip more, and sooner.

Having these Indy's on here has just upped the fun factor of the car by 40%.

[carchrism5]

Interesting points here and having run both tires I feel from all out performance, both dry and wet, the Indy 500 really does not compare to the PS4S. Found the Indy 500 to be harder, not grip as well in dry or wet. One obvious thing I could see is after a summer spirited drive you can see how many little pebbles stick to the PS4S when you park whereas the Indy 500 never truly got to that level. Hell I can see this even in my own driveway which is gravel, the PS4S annoyingly pick up and throw gravel and the Indy 500 did not.

Initially when the Indy 500 was released it was truly a bargain tire, and even prior to Covid their prices were shooting up quickly so they really started to lose some of that value that made them such a great tire to buy. They are still cheaper so when it comes to them price and longevity are where the Indy 500 lead.

I get what VisualEcho is saying above about Indy 500 being more "fun" in being able to break loose, and lower cost makes him care less so he has more fun. I used to live in MO too in school and the MO roads lend to what he is describing far better than where I am in CT, filled with windy backroads. I bought a few sets of Indy 500s but wouldn't but them again for my current purposes.

If people are looking for a budget friendly performance, I really think the Yokohama Advan Apex V601 is one to look at. I bought one set and it was on a car that had Indy 500 prior and it was night and day in grip. I loved those so much I bought another set for a different car too.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by carchrism5

One obvious thing I could see is after a summer spirited drive you can see how many little pebbles stick to the PS4S when you park whereas the Indy 500 never truly got to that level.

You're comparing a 300 TW tire to a 340 TW tire.

Originally Posted by carchrism5

If people are looking for a budget friendly performance, I really think the Yokohama Advan Apex V601 is one to look at. I bought one set and it was on a car that had Indy 500 prior and it was night and day in grip. I loved those so much I bought another set for a different car too.

Now you're comparing a 280 TW tire to a 340 TW tire.

If it's ultimate grip you're after, try some even grippier 200 TW tires

https://tires.tirerack.com/tires/200%20Treadwear

[carchrism5]

Originally Posted by VisualEcho

You're comparing a 300 TW tire to a 340 TW tire.



Now you're comparing a 280 TW tire to a 340 TW tire.

If it's ultimate grip you're after, try some even grippier 200 TW tires

https://tires.tirerack.com/tires/200%20Treadwear

Your whole post is about comparing two completely different tires in different sizes. I was just adding some additional real world thoughts for people that may be thinking about different setups.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by carchrism5

Your whole post is about comparing two completely different tires in different sizes. I was just adding some additional real world thoughts for people that may be thinking about different setups.

I don't see them as completely different tires. The Indy is a UHP Summer tire, and the PS4S a Max performance Summer. But yes, they are in different sizes.

And this is my Indy this morning, after driving up my clean driveway. The amount of rocks a tire picks up is really not an indicator of anything, as just about any tire will pick up rocks/debris.

[Moflow]

Thanks for the review! I might have to give these a try when the PSS wear out on my car. This is exactly what i'm looking for, a bit more playfulness but with good predictability and good wet weather performance. And cheap. I like that they're cheap too.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Moflow

Thanks for the review! I might have to give these a try when the PSS wear out on my car. This is exactly what i'm looking for, a bit more playfulness but with good predictability and good wet weather performance. And cheap. I like that they're cheap too.

I drive my car around waiting to get a ticket.

My warranty is up in mid December and I'm literally going Stage 2 the next day. So I'm about to have more power in colder temps. I can't wait!

[VisualEcho]

OK, so this past week has been nutty with regards to the weather and temperature. Everything from 29° to 72° and blasting rain to pure sun (welcome to Missouri). The tires have been fantastic in all instances. In fact, being 46° this morning and light drizzle I figured I'd really find their weakness, but none was to be found, as they hooked much better than expected. Super happy with my purchase!