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      10-23-2021, 12:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2guru View Post
Was wondering more about the down sides of the blues on the M2. I haven't had any issues so I was wondering what to look out for?
They just change color over time, and are more prone to fade on certain tracks or in certain instances.
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      10-25-2021, 08:25 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
I have compared my brake graph with my buddy blue brake, and the delta is around 1s per lap caused by brake difference (similar tires). If you don't care about the superior brake performance and better heat management (way bigger pads and rotors), swap to blue.
Can you share that data here?
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      10-26-2021, 11:20 AM   #25
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The blue brakes are really strong on track but give up a lot quicker, ive driven both those and 2nh - after 12 mins they (blue) started to fade for me and went a little spongey, the rears weren't doing an awful lot for me, car felt very on the nose at threshold braking.

Definitely a downgrade for length of time on track, in terms of bite i didnt notice any difference, the 2NH were stock, the blue had ferodo ds1.1's and fluid changed.

After all that i upgraded to AP 5000's with pagids in... no fade - but do ideally need some extra cooling as im on track for longer.
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      10-27-2021, 07:46 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
This might make you the exception, as MANY people have been just fine with the blue brakes and the correct lines/pads/fluid for, well, years.
nah doesnt make me the exception at all... steel lines, Brembo HTC 64 Brake fluids and Pagid RS 29 aint exactly crap. its quite common for the boys here in australia to cook their brakes regardless of whether its blue or silver bbk

with all due respect for you to generically say it works fine makes me wonder do you even track your car or you just offering an opinion based on what you read but have no actual experience at all???

I can cook an entire set of 2NH running Pagids RS29, steel lines and Brembo HTC 64 after 4-5 hot laps on a high speed track before it starts fading like buggery and braking distances get longer and longer and longer. And PAGID RS29 are no medicore pads. these are racing endurance pads used by professional racing teams. hardly mickey mouse stuff.

You know why ??? Hauling a 1650kg car down from 220km/hr down to 80km/hr repeatedly is going to smash ANY brakes. Bigger pads, bigger calipers and bigger rotors is more resistant to heat than smaller rotors and calipers and can generate more braking torque for better stopping power. Its basic physics.

The M2 can haul ass and build up speed very quickly around a race track and I assure you, you do a lot of high speed stops, you're cooking the brakes. Period.

If you spent any time on track you would and should know that. Its why all time attack cars dont stick with OEM brakes and gut them out and go for AP Racing, Brembos or Alcons.

Better stopping power, more resistent to brake fade, better rotor design for cooling, lighter and more up to track abuse.

if OEM kits are so awesome why do the track cars switch over to Alcons or AP Racing kits ? Why not just whack on a set of blue brakes like you reckon ? no need for the alcons or AP.


Last edited by Robbyjai; 10-27-2021 at 07:52 AM..
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      10-27-2021, 07:47 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLizzzard View Post
The blue brakes are really strong on track but give up a lot quicker, ive driven both those and 2nh - after 12 mins they (blue) started to fade for me and went a little spongey, the rears weren't doing an awful lot for me, car felt very on the nose at threshold braking.

Definitely a downgrade for length of time on track, in terms of bite i didnt notice any difference, the 2NH were stock, the blue had ferodo ds1.1's and fluid changed.
here's proof to my point. this OP's real world usage and experience is 100% consistent with my comment. Is he wrong also? Is he also an exception to the rule ?
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      10-27-2021, 07:53 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLizzzard View Post
The blue brakes are really strong on track but give up a lot quicker, ive driven both those and 2nh - after 12 mins they (blue) started to fade for me and went a little spongey, the rears weren't doing an awful lot for me, car felt very on the nose at threshold braking.

Definitely a downgrade for length of time on track, in terms of bite i didnt notice any difference, the 2NH were stock, the blue had ferodo ds1.1's and fluid changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
This might make you the exception, as MANY people have been just fine with the blue brakes and the correct lines/pads/fluid for, well, years.
here's proof to my point. this OP's real world usage and experience is 100% consistent with my comment. Is he wrong also? Is he also an exception to the rule ?
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      10-27-2021, 10:01 AM   #29
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Brakes are too subjective for a yes/no answer on something like this. Too many factors at play - technique, available grip levels, the characteristics of the track being driven, ambient conditions, DSC usage - just a few of them. We are all really speaking in generalities.

So generally speaking - going from 2NH to the blues... I wouldn't be opposed to trying it if someone is giving me 2500.00 for the swap if you are leaning towards going to a BBK in the future. Just know that you might be in that gap between the fade resistance levels of the two where the 2NH still perform adequately but the blues might fade. Might make the move to a BBK need to happen sooner but now have some money to go towards that upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2guru View Post
Was wondering more about the down sides of the blues on the M2. I haven't had any issues so I was wondering what to look out for?
Same as with any setup look out for fade. If your setup starts to fade then might be time to start looking into an upgrade of one type or another. If you haven't had any issues then sounds like you might be in a good place right now. A good BBK has other benefits (less mass, quicker pad changes, etc) but if you are not needing the extra fade resistance might not be worth the money for you yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLizzzard View Post
The blue brakes are really strong on track but give up a lot quicker, ive driven both those and 2nh - after 12 mins they (blue) started to fade for me and went a little spongey, the rears weren't doing an awful lot for me, car felt very on the nose at threshold braking.

Definitely a downgrade for length of time on track, in terms of bite i didnt notice any difference, the 2NH were stock, the blue had ferodo ds1.1's and fluid changed.

After all that i upgraded to AP 5000's with pagids in... no fade - but do ideally need some extra cooling as im on track for longer.
Are you considering adding cooling to try to extend pad life?
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      10-27-2021, 01:18 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbyjai View Post
nwith all due respect for you to generically say it works fine makes me wonder do you even track your car or you just offering an opinion based on what you read but have no actual experience at all???
1. I will never track this pig of a car. If I want to hit the track I will use my Exige, it's a much more rewarding tool.

2. I can read. The blue brakes are absolutely fine for those guys that can realize that the M2 was never intended to be a real racing car, but more of a fun, weekend HPDE car. If you're going beyond that, then save your breath.
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      10-27-2021, 06:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbyjai View Post





here's proof to my point. this OP's real world usage and experience is 100% consistent with my comment. Is he wrong also? Is he also an exception to the rule ?
You have to consider the use case. In high heat country, on a slow track with lots of brake zones, sure.

On long, flowing circuits, blue brakes are fine. I ran consistent sub 8 min Nurburgring laps with my M2 with blue bakes. Just with PFC pads and Castrol SRF fluid. They work fine lap after lap. And the biggest brake zone is about 260 Kmh to 70 or so. With a small pause.
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      10-27-2021, 10:27 PM   #32
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I'm fairly certain the BMW m235 race car they sold had blue brakes. They also modified the abs threshold.
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      10-27-2021, 11:01 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
You have to consider the use case. In high heat country, on a slow track with lots of brake zones, sure.

On long, flowing circuits, blue brakes are fine. I ran consistent sub 8 min Nurburgring laps with my M2 with blue bakes. Just with PFC pads and Castrol SRF fluid. They work fine lap after lap. And the biggest brake zone is about 260 Kmh to 70 or so. With a small pause.
i already have and that was exactly my comment to the previous poster that it was not a one size fits all that the blue brakes are perfectly fine with just pad and line upgrade.
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      10-27-2021, 11:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbyjai View Post
i already have and that was exactly my comment to the previous poster that it was not a one size fits all that the blue brakes are perfectly fine with just pad and line upgrade.
Yes they are a one-size-fits-all, as long as you use the tool as it was intended. The M2 isn't a serious race car, and if you've made yours such, then neither the blue brakes, or the 2NH will suffice.

Something tells me that you're the type of guy that uses a screwdriver as a hammer and then bitches about it not doing the job.
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      10-29-2021, 07:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualEcho View Post
Yes they are a one-size-fits-all, as long as you use the tool as it was intended. The M2 isn't a serious race car, and if you've made yours such, then neither the blue brakes, or the 2NH will suffice.

Something tells me that you're the type of guy that uses a screwdriver as a hammer and then bitches about it not doing the job.
and something tells me you're a toss pot key board warrior who's never been on a race track and sits on the forum dispensing advice to people while other people on the same thread besides me has provided personal experiences that disagrees with what you say but yeh ok mate. good on ya.

i'll contact the folks that runs the M2 CS Racing Series and let em our resident forum expert who's a know it all said the M2 isnt a race car and they better stop the racing series. i better let the boys know here in australia who uses their BMW m2 in sprint series that their car is not a race car and they better pack it all away cos you know better right.. the same cars who are posting easily top 5 times in class. but you know better lols

Last edited by Robbyjai; 10-29-2021 at 08:04 AM..
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      10-29-2021, 03:27 PM   #36
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For what it is worth, there are (tens of?) thousands of dedicated race cars out using their OEM single-piston sliding calipers with a pad and fluid upgrade. They still win races.

This is purely about heat management.

If someone is willing to provide a big chunk of data supporting their claim of "blue brakes bad", I'd be willing to listen. Otherwise, this is just personal opinion.
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      10-30-2021, 03:25 AM   #37
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This is the track we're mostly racing on. Main straight is about 235kmh and back straight is about 225kmh (with a stock M2C power level). The car in the video has blue brakes, pads, brake lines and 265/295 AR-1.
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      10-30-2021, 06:39 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OG Shark View Post
Brakes are too subjective for a yes/no answer on something like this. Too many factors at play - technique, available grip levels, the characteristics of the track being driven, ambient conditions, DSC usage - just a few of them. We are all really speaking in generalities.

So generally speaking - going from 2NH to the blues... I wouldn't be opposed to trying it if someone is giving me 2500.00 for the swap if you are leaning towards going to a BBK in the future. Just know that you might be in that gap between the fade resistance levels of the two where the 2NH still perform adequately but the blues might fade. Might make the move to a BBK need to happen sooner but now have some money to go towards that upgrade.



Same as with any setup look out for fade. If your setup starts to fade then might be time to start looking into an upgrade of one type or another. If you haven't had any issues then sounds like you might be in a good place right now. A good BBK has other benefits (less mass, quicker pad changes, etc) but if you are not needing the extra fade resistance might not be worth the money for you yet.



Are you considering adding cooling to try to extend pad life?
Yes - seeing 270deg on the front 240deg on the rear. Brakes, pads, fluid etc all need to be of a similar high standard to get the most out of them.

Also to the bloke who said this car isnt rewarding on track you are so wrong. I also have an exige s3 (350) which is a brilliant track tool but i tend to go in the bmw - 15 days this year so far with 2 more booked. I have made some mods to it now but even stock it was a great laugh, quick and demanded good car control to get the most out of it.
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      10-30-2021, 11:39 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxinz View Post


This is the track we're mostly racing on. Main straight is about 235kmh and back straight is about 225kmh (with a stock M2C power level). The car in the video has blue brakes, pads, brake lines and 265/295 AR-1.
Nice work! Where is this? My first guess (likely wrong) is somewhere in Spain or Portugal. Well executed line, and great job NOT hitting those big black boxes just past the exit.
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      10-31-2021, 05:27 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
Nice work! Where is this? My first guess (likely wrong) is somewhere in Spain or Portugal. Well executed line, and great job NOT hitting those big black boxes just past the exit.
Not me driving... This is an OG M2 with 295/265 nankangs and proper pads (blue calipers at that) and suspension etc -- all in the video description...

Im about 5 seconds off his time but on the original first 19' PSSS with 20k km and 3 trackdays on em... So I'm sure I'll get closer to those times at some point, but right now the whole car in stock form is a handful and I'd like to sort the brakes and tires and get it consistent before adding suspension and power, which was the reason I started this topic in the first place.
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      11-04-2021, 03:28 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
I'm fairly certain the BMW m235 race car they sold had blue brakes. They also modified the abs threshold.
If they had, than only at rear axle, at front there were PFC calipers for sure. Same with M2 CS Racing, front Alcons and rear 2NH in lower power car, and Alcons with more powerful version
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      11-04-2021, 07:26 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vojta89 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
I'm fairly certain the BMW m235 race car they sold had blue brakes. They also modified the abs threshold.
If they had, than only at rear axle, at front there were PFC calipers for sure. Same with M2 CS Racing, front Alcons and rear 2NH in lower power car, and Alcons with more powerful version
You're right. PFC calipers on the front. Still 4 piston but slightly larger rotors and with it in assuming slightly larger pads. Not sure what caliper piston diameter is but seems like as a package those brakes would slot in somewhere between the blues and 2NH.

I wonder if that pfc caliper kit would fit 18" wheels.
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      11-04-2021, 09:46 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
You're right. PFC calipers on the front. Still 4 piston but slightly larger rotors and with it in assuming slightly larger pads. Not sure what caliper piston diameter is but seems like as a package those brakes would slot in somewhere between the blues and 2NH.

I wonder if that pfc caliper kit would fit 18" wheels.
They were on 18"...
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      11-04-2021, 10:00 AM   #44
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I think ppl make the brake stuff a lot more complicated than it needs to be.

1) Braking force/vehicle deceleration is dependent on tires. Every braking system can lock your tires at least once and therefore provide the max decel.

2) Repeated braking generates a lot of heat. If your braking system cannot shed heat as quickly as it builds up, you will eventually fade the braking system. Fade occurs from overheating the pads/discs/fluid beyond their operating point.

You need to think of the brakes heat management as a bucket with a hole in it. As you fill the bucket some of the water (heat) will escape via the hole. If the hole is not big enough then the bucket will eventually overflow (brake fade). You can eliminate fade by making the hole bigger (bigger more ventilated brakes) to match the incoming flow. If it is not matched then the bucket will still fill up and overflow (all be it slower), the size of your bucket determines when fade sets in.

In this respect the blue brakes are a smaller bucket with a smaller hole than the silver upgrade brakes. The difference is not world altering though.

3) You need to determine how much heat you are going to put into the brakes. Things like ambient temps, driver skill, tire selection, track, length of stints all affect the heat put into the brakes.

The blue brakes are enough at the ring on street tires because the ring does not have many heavy braking zones one after another. You brake hard and then have 30-60 sec to cool them down before the next hard braking zone.

The blue brakes will fade at a track like Zolder where you are going from 200kmh+ to 80-100 multiple times in a sub 2 min lap.


Pads and fluid and cooling will help maximize what your brake calipers and discs can stand. Brake lines dont do much, the stock brake lines are already quite good.

Personally I run APs in the front and blue brakes in the rear. This setup is perfect for the M2C and takes the abuse very well. The rear does not really need more braking as it only does 20-30% of the total braking anyways.

The APs also transform the brake pedal as they are much stiffer and that translates to a firmer linear pedal.

They also do not have external dustboots to burn like any of the OEM calipers.

Lastly pads last way longer and on a per lap basis are cheaper than pads for 2NH or blue brakes.

My 2 cents, use the cash coming your way to get some front APs and enjoy the reduced unsprung mass front and rear.
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