[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

yea I mean personally idk much about installing but I've had a few nightmares lol. I'm in Tampa, FL and the local shops are not the best. I gotta drive pretty far, around 30+ minutes

Same, but no one around I bother with anymore. Most shops overcharge for simple services in the name of BMW, but I’ve never had ‘custom’ work done like you have so I can’t say.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Same, but no one around I bother with anymore. Most shops overcharge for simple services in the name of BMW, but I’ve never had ‘custom’ work done like you have so I can’t say.

yea makes sense. I'd do the same if I wasn't so modified

[David.m]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

How many posts have you seen confirming turbo lag? You keep on saying my statements aren’t enough, but you have literally provided nothing this whole thread.

Have read a few posts of users saying they felt increased lag after 'upgrading' their IC. That was back around 2018 so don't ask me who & which brand IC's,
led me to decide on the Wagner Evo2 Comp both to ensure no lag (from memory it was about the only brand that published test info) and plug/play fitment. Have since seen other brands publish test results for temps/pressure loss, so if lag was a non-issue I wonder why manufacturers would publish test results and it talked about in just about every IC discussion.

See my post on p1, just my experience/opinion, if you want to describe it as "literally nothing" thats OK.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by David.m

Have read a few posts of users saying they felt increased lag after 'upgrading' their IC. That was back around 2018 so don't ask me who & which brand IC's,
led me to decide on the Wagner Evo2 Comp both to ensure no lag (from memory it was about the only brand that published test info) and plug/play fitment. Have since seen other brands publish test results for temps/pressure loss, so if lag was a non-issue I wonder why manufacturers would publish test results and it talked about in just about every IC discussion.

See my post on p1, just my experience/opinion, if you want to describe it as "literally nothing" thats OK.

I've seen it mentioned many times, but figured the combo I got (pretty normal) would present no issues.

I have half a mind to swap intercoolers just to see. I'm never going beyond Stage 2 so I might have too much intercooler (although some would say there is no such thing).

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I've seen it mentioned many times, but figured the combo I got (pretty normal) would present no issues.

I have half a mind to swap intercoolers just to see. I'm never going beyond Stage 2 so I might have too much intercooler (although some would say there is no such thing).

I don't really see a harm in bigger but also don't see a point unless big turbo

[AmuroRay]

I’m sure I’ve researched more about intercoolers on this platform (and in general) than anyone outside of (and including) the vendors.

The Wagner EVO2 is and will always be one of the worst on this platform. It’s poor internal surface area (remember, the fins on the outside do not reflect the surface area in the interior) means it can’t (and doesn’t) hold or dissipate heat as well as other intercoolers.

When people speak or lag, it has literally nothing to do with interior volume. The Evo 3 is MASSIVE. It’s 13” tall compared to 8” for the Evo 2 and around 5” for the stock core. The Evo 3 is also 7” deep compared to 6” for the EVO2 and 4” for the stock core.

(MAD, VRSF -R and BMS R are 11” tall for comparison and 6.5-7” depth)

Despite the massive volume differences between all of these cores, turbo lag isn’t a thing.


What does this have to do with the CSF? The CSF is smaller than even the Evo 2 (but has superior cooling ability) and it’s fault (if any) lies in its dense internal fin pack and smaller charge rows.

Giving up cooling capacity is the wrong way to go here - a member posted his logs and the Evo 2 was already maxed near 88* ambients, as it has a hard time keeping IATs within 20F above the ambient temperature. (Typically 105-109F is where timing is pulled on pump gas)

The CSF is the most popular core on this platform because is basically the biggest that can fit without modification. You’d be crazy to downgrade to a less capable cooler (which costs more) instead of just going larger with a better brand,

And that’s even if the cooler is the issue and not an installation problem

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I’m sure I’ve researched more about intercoolers on this platform (and in general) than anyone outside of (and including) the vendors.

I totally believe this, and don't want to come across as I'm arguing with you at all. I'll get around to doing some logs at some point, but I don't have a laptop, so I'm not sure how to do them. I suspect what I'm feeling as lag is normal and I'm just sensitive to it, as the car runs fantastic.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I’m sure I’ve researched more about intercoolers on this platform (and in general) than anyone outside of (and including) the vendors.

The Wagner EVO2 is and will always be one of the worst on this platform. It’s poor internal surface area (remember, the fins on the outside do not reflect the surface area in the interior) means it can’t (and doesn’t) hold or dissipate heat as well as other intercoolers.

When people speak or lag, it has literally nothing to do with interior volume. The Evo 3 is MASSIVE. It’s 13” tall compared to 8” for the Evo 2 and around 5” for the stock core. The Evo 3 is also 7” deep compared to 6” for the EVO2 and 4” for the stock core.

(MAD, VRSF -R and BMS R are 11” tall for comparison and 6.5-7” depth)

Despite the massive volume differences between all of these cores, turbo lag isn’t a thing.


What does this have to do with the CSF? The CSF is smaller than even the Evo 2 (but had superior cooling ability) and it’s fault (if any) lies in its dense internal fin pack and smaller charge rows.

Giving up cooling capacity is the wrong way to go here - a member posted his logs and the Evo 2 was already maxed near 88* ambients, as it has a hard time keeping IATs within 20F above the ambient temperature. (Typically 105-109F is where timing is pulled on pump gas)

The CSF is the most popular core on this platform because is basically the biggest that can fit without modification. You’d be crazy to downgrade to a less capable cooler (which costs more) instead of just going larger with a better brand,

And that’s even if the cooler is the issue and not an installation problem

CSF is the biggest without modding but certainly not the lightest I heard

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I totally believe this, and don't want to come across as I'm arguing with you at all. I'll get around to doing some logs at some point, but I don't have a laptop, so I'm not sure how to do them. I suspect what I'm feeling as lag is normal and I'm just sensitive to it, as the car runs fantastic.

Doesn't BM3 have a phone app that you can log to? I'll say it again, I don't think your making up the feelings you have, and it could be a "lag" issue, I just don't want you to pay more money if you don't have to.

Originally Posted by shaneguags

CSF is the biggest without modding but certainly not the lightest I heard

No, the lightest is something like the Evo 1/2 - The CFS is about the same weight as the VRSF Comp - 27lbs. In the case of an intercooler, weight is actually a good thing.

[Sundinisagod]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Just a quick question for those that might know.

Last year when I went to the Dragon (re: 318 curves in 11 miles, mostly 20-60 mph) I found that I could pretty much keep the car in 3rd gear most of the time with the odd downshift here and there for the really hard corners. I also don't remember feeling much lag.

This year I'm now BM3 Stage 2 91 octane with an OTS map (CSF intercooler/charge pipe/Fabspeed downpipe). I use the 91 map but run 93 exclusively.

Anyway, I found that I was actually in 4th gear most of the time on the same road, and at lower rpm's, which seemed to cause a lot more feeling of turbo lag.

I imagine it's because the car has more power/is faster and therefore I'm needing to be in a higher gear sooner, but because of that I'm at a lower rpm, which is making the car feel more laggy.

Has anyone else experienced what they would consider more lag on Stage 2 compared to stock?

Does anybody near you have the MHD stage 2+ tune? I’m amazed at what it did for my car in terms of eliminating turbo lag. I believe it makes more boost at lower rpm’s than BM3. Granted, my car isn’t manuel but I do have the same CSF intercooler and Fabspeed sport cat, also running 91 octane tune while using 94 rated fuel.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Sundinisagod

Does anybody near you have the MHD stage 2+ tune?

No one near me with a modified M2 at all.

[designatedposter]

bm3 reset adaptations yet? costs nothing and no negative side effects.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

bm3 reset adaptations yet? costs nothing and no negative side effects.

I haven't, I figured if that was going to make a difference it would have on the Dragon.

[///MPhatic]

Just to revisit this one last time for those that will find it in searches.

I don't think I have increased lag, but it doesn't matter because I have the PERCEPTION of increased lag, and I'm not alone.

Thankfully it's not all the time, and has to do with rpm's, throttle inputs, and boost, not actual lag.

My last logs were clean, so I'm considering the matter closed, and will just learn to live with it.

70°
72% humidity
30.07 barometer
371' elevation

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