01-11-2019, 08:56 PM | #45 |
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Haha, would it be faster then M4? I bet not until M4 is for sale. M3 is not so let's beat it up to prop up the stubby M2 - the new e46.
Love bmw cars but the marketing department play is just too obvious not to see...
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01-11-2019, 09:51 PM | #46 | |
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I miss the days when BMW management was dominated by engineers, before the current crop of marketers and designers who can't seem to stop. adding. M. badges. everywhere.
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01-12-2019, 11:00 AM | #48 | |
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If you don't put much stock in lap times, what do you put stock in?
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01-12-2019, 11:03 AM | #49 |
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[QUOTE=tetsuo111;24227596]Every company is dominated by marketing, it's 2019. You should see what the inside of google looks like. Engineers are a dying breed.
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01-12-2019, 11:07 AM | #50 | |
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This whole discussion really confuses me. The results are the results. They aren't the sole, canonical source that determines M2C performance relative to the competition, but they're a data point. Lots of folks seem really anxious to dismiss these results as irrelevant, but no one has provided any good reason why. The M2C has proven its competence on this circuit on this day. Give it the credit it's due, or provide a credible counter argument.
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01-12-2019, 01:32 PM | #51 |
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.02 of a second faster than an M3 competition. Could be the wind... or the driver had a poo before jumping in.
4 seconds on the outgoing M2 ALSO in Europe where these cars are built its called a competition pack. In the USA where they are raised and detuned they are ZCP with amber lights and big wing mirrors you cannot see from. [/QUOTE] |
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01-12-2019, 01:49 PM | #52 | |
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ZCP (Zee Competition Pack) is the BMW option code for Competition Package. They are called Competition Package here in the US as well just like everywhere else. Also, please enlighten us more how US spec cars are detuned compared to EU spec counterparts. I really hope you won't come back saying "EU spec has 450HP while US spec makes 444HP". Both EU and US spec M3 (or any other BMW model) make the same amount of power so neither is detuned. In Europe, the DIN metric horsepower (PS) is used while US uses HP. 1 PS = 0.986 HP ==> 450PS = 444HP. |
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01-12-2019, 01:59 PM | #53 | |
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Dawg you need an extra tune to bypass the OPF just to get the same whp as the best country on earth |
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01-12-2019, 02:04 PM | #54 |
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ZCP (Zee Competition Pack) is the BMW option code for Competition Package. They are called Competition Package here in the US as well just like everywhere else. Also, please enlighten us more how US spec cars are detuned compared to EU spec counterparts. I really hope you won't come back saying "EU spec has 450HP while US spec makes 444HP". Both EU and US spec M3 (or any other BMW model) make the same amount of power so neither is detuned. In Europe, the DIN metric horsepower (PS) is used while US uses HP. 1 PS = 0.986 HP ==> 450PS = 444HP.[/QUOTE]
There is a difference on how they drive and feel. For example drove M3 basic with DCT, (a real transmission) back to back one in Canada on 401 and one in UK. The difference is very apparent. Stiffest suspension setting, noise, how it handles and power. Shift speeds. The Canadian version had much more body roll, not overly more but enough to notice. It had interestingly the finger gesture navigation in it. This is not an option in EU and no dealer heard of it till this G20. You say 450 or 444 well actually it does not matter because that HP you will not feel. Fuel can make lots of difference. Germany you get 100 shell race fuel, I am sure you can get 94 in Canada. It may or may not be equivalent, but on 100 octane this car is a killer. Lots of this can be address with a software flash. It did not feel as torquey as the one in UK, the orange fingers really ruined the front. I ended up with a M3 Competition with GTS software, ESS tune and lots of other nice touches etc.... Sadly no F1Rs. So I don't particularly want to get into a debate or argument with the forum. Its my experience. Audi and VW are very much similar in how detuned they are in Canada. Anyhow, enjoy your Saturday. If you live on both sides of the pond you can experience the difference yourself. |
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01-12-2019, 02:32 PM | #55 | |
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You say 450 or 444 well actually it does not matter because that HP you will not feel. Fuel can make lots of difference. Germany you get 100 shell race fuel, I am sure you can get 94 in Canada. It may or may not be equivalent, but on 100 octane this car is a killer. Lots of this can be address with a software flash. It did not feel as torquey as the one in UK, the orange fingers really ruined the front. I ended up with a M3 Competition with GTS software, ESS tune and lots of other nice touches etc.... Sadly no F1Rs. So I don't particularly want to get into a debate or argument with the forum. Its my experience. Audi and VW are very much similar in how detuned they are in Canada. Anyhow, enjoy your Saturday. If you live on both sides of the pond you can experience the difference yourself.[/QUOTE] You still haven't answered my question. You claimed NA cars are detuned. Please prove your point with credible source aside from your butt dyno. Also, of course these cars are going to make different amount of power on different fuel (94 vs 100). However, this is not what "detuned" means. Show us EU and NA cars make different power on the same day, same dyno and same gas then you'll have a point. |
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01-12-2019, 02:41 PM | #56 | |
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Oh wait, you didn’t drive a US car, you drove a Canadian spec one. I’ll wait for our Canadian neighbors to chime in. I’m sure they get detuned like crazy north of the border... doubt they make 200 HP up there.
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01-12-2019, 07:58 PM | #57 |
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I don't see this as any surprise that the ///M2 Comp.Package is an equal performer, more or less, to the ///M3 version. What else would you expect when many of the components are the same??? It's like being surprised that two DD sized tits feel about the same, plus or minus different nipple placement or areola size.
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01-12-2019, 08:49 PM | #58 | |
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Someone get this genius a scotch. The man deserves a scotch, I said!!! |
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01-13-2019, 06:31 AM | #59 | |
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01-14-2019, 03:41 PM | #61 | |
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01-14-2019, 10:56 PM | #62 | ||
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Seriously, going out to 1/100th of a second is just funny on a 2 minute course with a human driver, in different conditions, different tire wear, you name it.
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01-15-2019, 03:36 AM | #63 | |
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The counter argument you seek comes from underlying concepts in any undergraduate engineering/stats book. |
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01-15-2019, 03:48 AM | #64 | |
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01-15-2019, 02:14 PM | #65 | ||
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Here's a sentence with some big words in it for you. Try it on for size and let me know if this gets me into the discussion: It is incumbent upon the author to present their argument in a fashion which can be most easily comprehended by the intended audience. For anyone not interested in an intellectual circle jerk: If you're going to make an argument, at least try to make sense. Especially when talking to us plebes.
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01-15-2019, 07:44 PM | #66 |
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It means that with a .02 second difference on a 2 minute course, with multiple variables, the differences in times are not statistically significant.
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