[Markyc66]

So currently I’m having issues when tracking the car with brake judder.

I recently fitted DS1.11s front and ds2500 rear pads (new) onto disc that had covered 25k (just adding as much info as possible) have braided lines and motul brake fluid (can’t remember exact but it’s a high performance fluid)

Initially on the road car performed great bite/stopping.

First track day was a Snetterton (two big braking zones from 120/130)all was fine upto around 11pm when felt slight judder. Asked around and assumed it was some pad deposit build up so carried on. It got considerable worse and towards the end of the day made the car near on undriveable. There was a lot of deposit in the drilled holes on the front discs which built up over the day.
On the drive home there wasn’t a great deal of judder because it only happened when really stamping on them.

After I returned home I cleaned all the disc holes out,rubbed discs down with sandpaper to remove any other deposit removed pads and rubbed down too.
Went out re bedded the pads back in and all seem to be fine, apart from the squeaking like crazy but doesn’t overly bother me.

So my next track day (Nurburgring) again fine for a 2/3hrs then got worse and worse until again made the car undriveable. Holes filled up with deposits again.

I can get them to a slight judder on the road but it’s near on impossible to replicate a TD with temp/speeds.

So my questions
Has anyone else come up against this with an OG brake set up and did they get over it without going BBK (aps/Alcon) I’m not against a BBK upgrade but feel it’s very overkill for the amount of TDs I will be doing.
If I need to replace discs + pads + cooling package that’s pretty much what I will lose on resell on a BBK

Thanks

[3LiterBeater]

Can you provide a picture of the rotor?

As one who ran DS1.11, the pad started to get hot as it got lower which caused a slight juddering but nothing like what you're describing.

I now run PFC11 pads at all four corners and have no problem with repeated stops from 150mph at tracks like VIR, even in warmer weather.

I think the blue brakes are more than capable on track!

[Markyc66]

Originally Posted by 3LiterBeater

Can you provide a picture of the rotor?

As one who ran DS1.11, the pad started to get hot as it got lower which caused a slight juddering but nothing like what you're describing.

I now run PFC11 pads at all four corners and have no problem with repeated stops from 150mph at tracks like VIR, even in warmer weather.

I think the blue brakes are more than capable on track!

Will post up tonight, I’ve done about 1000miles since the trackday (went round Europe after ring) so might not give a true insight. I’d say they are now 20% worn (80% pad thickness remaining)

I totally agree the standard brakes seem to perform great/stop well enough when not juddering.
For the amount if TD’s I plan on doing I can’t justify A BBK when the std set up can manage it. I just need to get to the bottom of the judder

[3LiterBeater]

Originally Posted by Markyc66

Will post up tonight, I’ve done about 1000miles since the trackday (went round Europe after ring) so might not give a true insight. I’d say they are now 20% worn (80% pad thickness remaining)

I totally agree the standard brakes seem to perform great/stop well enough when not juddering.
For the amount if TD’s I plan on doing I can’t justify A BBK when the std set up can manage it. I just need to get to the bottom of the judder

Yeah that's a tad strange. Mine would make almost a grinding sound as the pad was low but I've yet to experience any judder. Might be worth getting new pads!

[Markyc66]

Pictures of discs

A lot of the deposits has come out since the TD As I said before I did over 1000miles after the day.

[3LiterBeater]

Originally Posted by Markyc66

Pictures of discs

A lot of the deposits has come out since the TD As I said before I did over 1000miles after the day.

Those look normal to me! Might be worth just experimenting with a new pad compound, potentially something better than a DS2500 in the back

[pal]

Do you drive with DSC Off? If not, the stability control may be pulsing the brakes and causing deposits through the track day.

[Markyc66]

Originally Posted by 3LiterBeater

Those look normal to me! Might be worth just experimenting with a new pad compound, potentially something better than a DS2500 in the back

I’ve seen cracking/blue discs from heat and yes mine look pretty average/normal.

Could be an idea to run slightly better but I’m sure the judder is coming from the front.
I’ve never really ran anything too aggressive in the rear of any car I’ve own just a something tht can take abit of heat. I’m no race car driver so feel I’m driving the car at 60% if it’s capability’s

[Markyc66]

Originally Posted by pal

Do you drive with DSC Off? If not, the stability control may be pulsing the brakes and causing deposits through the track day.

I’m driving in Sport with DSC on.

T/C light doesn’t flash like mad (the odd flick)when I’m on track, I’m always as smooth as possible.
I didn’t consider this as even tho i don’t think it’s interfering im sure it will be busy doing bits in the back ground.

Where I’m newish to rwd I’d rather leave it on better safe than sorry.

[3LiterBeater]

Originally Posted by Markyc66

I’ve seen cracking/blue discs from heat and yes mine look pretty average/normal.

Could be an idea to run slightly better but I’m sure the judder is coming from the front.
I’ve never really ran anything too aggressive in the rear of any car I’ve own just a something tht can take abit of heat. I’m no race car driver so feel I’m driving the car at 60% if it’s capability’s

Yeah the cracking is normal. I did one more track weekend on these before replacing. I had no vibrations, however.

Did you mention you swap pad compounds?

[gsrbri]

I'm thinking pad compound

Your disks appear quite grooved from the pads. Suggest you switch to an endurance racing pad w/less aggressive compound and you'll need new rotors.

My suggestion is Pagid RS29 or PFC08 pads. Both are highly effective on the F8X cast iron brakes and they will shed deposits on the rotor if you street drive w/them for 1/2 day.

You should be good to go from there.

Good luck

PS looking at the DS 1.11 - they are listed as an endurance pad, but I have no experience with them. What were you using previously for a race pad?

[Markyc66]

Originally Posted by 3LiterBeater

Yeah the cracking is normal. I did one more track weekend on these before replacing. I had no vibrations, however.

Did you mention you swap pad compounds?

Car originally came with ‘porterfield R4-s’ Personally I’d never heard of them

They needed changing before I did a trackday as I new they wouldn’t have lasted a whole day.

Just looked on there website and This is there info on it.

The Porterfield R4-S compound is a top performer in the street/performance market with the R4-S compound giving more friction level (up to .41) than OEM pads. Offering fast stopping power with minimum amount of pedal effort making them ideal for prolonged everyday street driving and capable of enduring severe use without fade. The R4-S compound provides low noise and dust levels whilst also being rotor friendly. Perhaps one of the best overall performing, clean, and quiet everyday high performance driving brake pads ever made and still able to take the abuse from occasional track and road events.

[Markyc66]

Originally Posted by gsrbri

I'm thinking pad compound

Your disks appear quite grooved from the pads. Suggest you switch to an endurance racing pad w/less aggressive compound and you'll need new rotors.

My suggestion is Pagid RS29 or PFC08 pads. Both are highly effective on the F8X cast iron brakes and they will shed deposits on the rotor if you street drive w/them for 1/2 day.

You should be good to go from there.

Good luck

PS looking at the DS 1.11 - they are listed as an endurance pad, but I have no experience with them. What were you using previously for a race pad?

I ran the Ds1.11 on my previously car ‘Renault Megane r26’ did 25+ trackdays in that car tried many other pads and the 1.11s seem to preform the best.
One thing I will say about running them on the Megane (4 piston brembo calliper)It was run with a solid HC Brembo disc (not drilled or grooved)
So maybe this has something to do with it.
I never had any judder/problems with this compound so this is the reason I went for it.


This is my catch 22. I’ve come to terms I’ve got to replace the discs(rotors) but do I upgrade

BBK will be overkill and as my callipers have been painted I would have to get the rears redone to match the front.
Or
As I’m getting new discs go for. Two piece set up with the std callipers. This is def what I’m swaying too but I just hope I don’t come up against the judder at tye next track day I do

[3LiterBeater]

Originally Posted by Markyc66

Car originally came with ‘porterfield R4-s’ Personally I’d never heard of them

They needed changing before I did a trackday as I new they wouldn’t have lasted a whole day.

Just looked on there website and This is there info on it.

The Porterfield R4-S compound is a top performer in the street/performance market with the R4-S compound giving more friction level (up to .41) than OEM pads. Offering fast stopping power with minimum amount of pedal effort making them ideal for prolonged everyday street driving and capable of enduring severe use without fade. The R4-S compound provides low noise and dust levels whilst also being rotor friendly. Perhaps one of the best overall performing, clean, and quiet everyday high performance driving brake pads ever made and still able to take the abuse from occasional track and road events.

There might have been some overlap from the previous pad material that didn't agree with the new pads. I can confirm that will cause issues such as "hot spots" which lead to what you're saying.

Might be worth taking some sandpaper to the rotors to "scuff" them up a bit and then allowing them to sit with a bit of water to create a little rust. I know a few others have done that with great success

[Markyc66]

Originally Posted by 3LiterBeater

There might have been some overlap from the previous pad material that didn't agree with the new pads. I can confirm that will cause issues such as "hot spots" which lead to what you're saying.

Might be worth taking some sandpaper to the rotors to "scuff" them up a bit and then allowing them to sit with a bit of water to create a little rust. I know a few others have done that with great success

I’ve tried once already with sand paper. At first it felt like I’d overcome tye problem but as soon as I returned to the track it came back.

New rotors and pads it is by the looks of it

[3LiterBeater]

Originally Posted by Markyc66

I’ve tried once already with sand paper. At first it felt like I’d overcome tye problem but as soon as I returned to the track it came back.

New rotors and pads it is by the looks of it

On the bright side, that'll fix it!

[David.m]

Originally Posted by Markyc66

I’ve tried once already with sand paper. At first it felt like I’d overcome tye problem but as soon as I returned to the track it came back.

New rotors and pads it is by the looks of it

Also consider removing the dust shields as they hinder cooling of the inner rotor (some guys actually did controlled testing on an F80/82 documenting actual temps with/without the shields).

When I replaced my front rotors I had larger cracks on the inner piece. I cut up the dust shield and kept a bottom piece to protect the ball joints from radiating heat.

Between removing the dust shields and fitting GT3 scoops I got a noticeable improvement in cooling.