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      06-21-2015, 04:07 AM   #1
IS3andME
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2016 Mercedes A45 AMG S With 400 HP?

Potentially 400 hp from it's 2.0 engine? Possibly will be shown at Frankfurt
This will be the S model, the regular will have 381. And we haven't even got to the Black Series yet. So what does mean for the M2 and the higher performance model? And will this possibly upstage the M2 (if shown) at the 2015 Frankfurt Motor Show.
Quote:
The 2016 Mercedes-Benz A45 AMG is coming, in standard, with 381 HP (280 kW) but it will also gain a beefier version, which will be called the A45 AMG S and it will be producing no less than 400 HP (294 kW). If these figures turn out to be true, than the vehicle signed by the 3-pointed star will become the most powerful hot hatch money can buy, dethroning its main rivals, the Audi RS3 and the BMW M135i. The output will be provided by the same 2.0 liter four-cylinder turbocharged engine, which will be tweaked. The current version of the unit found under the hood of the A45 AMG is rated at 360 HP (256 kW) and it has a peak torque of 450 Nm (332 lb-ft). The 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph) sprint takes 4.6 seconds and top speed is electronically limited to 250 km/h (155 mph).
Leaked pic?
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      06-21-2015, 05:39 AM   #2
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I guess that means the M2 won't be the only car in that segment that people will talk about at the Frankfurt Motor Show.

Sure, 400hp is a nice round number (and I wouldn't be mad at BMW if they upped the M2's power output at the last minute) but let's face it: It's just a "feel good" factor. That <10% difference in power output between the M2 and the A45 won't be the thing that sets these cars apart. Apart from being roughly the same size and price range, they are two very different cars built on very different platforms and with different qualities.

While this refresh might lure a few potential buyers away from the BMW, I think it is more aimed at the upcoming Golf R400 because that car will be comparable to the A45 point for point (both are hatchbacks with awd and 4-cylinder engines) and the worst thing that could happen for Mercedes is early reviews of the R400 saying "this is not only a lot cheaper than the Merc but faster as well".
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      06-21-2015, 05:39 AM   #3
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Think it'll be more expensive than the M2 even in "standard" guise. Its a cool car, but people who want the M2 will be drawn in by the rear wheel drive dynamics and the coupe form factor. I can't imagine the A45 AMG stealing many sales. The M235i is capable of out tracking the current A45 AMG so chances are the M2 won't have anything to worry about.
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      06-21-2015, 07:16 AM   #4
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That is absolutely insane for a 2.0liter 4cylinder. The A45 amg already had 26psi boost on the current edition. That thing must be like a ticking time bomb on the S model at 400hp.

-Paul
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      06-21-2015, 07:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allthatisntnow View Post
Think it'll be more expensive than the M2 even in "standard" guise.
Not in Aus. The A45 is $75k. The 1M when sold was $99k.

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Originally Posted by sth519 View Post
Apart from being roughly the same size and price range, they are two very different cars built on very different platforms and with different qualities.
Having driven an A45 its a very boring drive and a subtle lag in acceleration due to the huge boost. I'd prefer a "lower" output M2 if the instant power delivery (displacement) is there without a noticeable lag from the turbos.
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      06-21-2015, 07:53 AM   #6
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No manual = already off my list.
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      06-21-2015, 09:00 AM   #7
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Looks really nice, way better than the CLA. There will definitely be people that will cross shop with the M2.

For me, the power+performance will be comparable (look at C63S vs the F80 on track). Plus again, the lack of 6MT is also a deal breaker for me
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      06-21-2015, 09:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipphreak
That is absolutely insane for a 2.0liter 4cylinder. The A45 amg already had 26psi boost on the current edition. That thing must be like a ticking time bomb on the S model at 400hp.

-Paul
Lol...I guess my tuned CLA45 should have died long ago. It's running 29psi.
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      06-21-2015, 10:13 AM   #9
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If the dual clutch in this new one is as bad as in the CLA 45 AMG I drove when looking at the M235i then it isn't in the same class. The ZF 8 speed in the M235i is MUCH better then that POS. I test drove both back to back.

It will probably have the FWD biased AWD too. That sucked too...
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      06-21-2015, 10:43 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sth519 View Post
I guess that means the M2 won't be the only car in that segment that people will talk about at the Frankfurt Motor Show.

Sure, 400hp is a nice round number (and I wouldn't be mad at BMW if they upped the M2's power output at the last minute) but let's face it: It's just a "feel good" factor. That <10% difference in power output between the M2 and the A45 won't be the thing that sets these cars apart. Apart from being roughly the same size and price range, they are two very different cars built on very different platforms and with different qualities.

While this refresh might lure a few potential buyers away from the BMW, I think it is more aimed at the upcoming Golf R400 because that car will be comparable to the A45 point for point (both are hatchbacks with awd and 4-cylinder engines) and the worst thing that could happen for Mercedes is early reviews of the R400 saying "this is not only a lot cheaper than the Merc but faster as well".
Let's not forget that if the A45 AMG gets this, then chances are the CLA45 will as well. And that is an AWD SEDAN. Remember the M2 comes only as a coupe, and that we have people here that have wanted a 2 series RWD sedan. Sure, the CLA doesn't come in coupe form, but a potential 381-400 hp sedan in the M2's segment, may have some people switching
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      06-21-2015, 11:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zipphreak View Post
That is absolutely insane for a 2.0liter 4cylinder. The A45 amg already had 26psi boost on the current edition. That thing must be like a ticking time bomb on the S model at 400hp.

-Paul
Agreed. Not sure any of these (VW, RS, A45...) high output 4's are going to hold up 1 year out of warranty.

That's the appeal of an I6 with potential left in place by the factory.
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      06-21-2015, 11:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Let's not forget that if the A45 AMG gets this, then chances are the CLA45 will as well. And that is an AWD SEDAN. Remember the M2 comes only as a coupe, and that we have people here that have wanted a 2 series RWD sedan. Sure, the CLA doesn't come in coupe form, but a potential 381-400 hp sedan in the M2's segment, may have some people switching
Sure, people looking for anything with more than 2 doors will be more likely to buy an A45, RS3 or (possibly) R400. But that's the thing: People who are looking for an actual coupe are more likely to look into the M2 since... well... there is no other coupe in that segment.
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      06-21-2015, 02:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
No manual = already off my list.
Manual? Whats that? The book that comes with it?

But yeah, its in a segment where both choices should be offered. Not as if they have to engineer a new 6 speed for it. Nor will it be particularly low volume in the grand scheme of things.
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      06-21-2015, 03:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
No manual = already off my list.
Good call! Traded in my CLA45 for the F80 because of the crappy duel clutch tranny. It's like years behind newer Porsche, GTR, Ferrari, and VW. Super slow and delay shifts. If it came with a manual I probably wouldn't have traded it in.
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      06-21-2015, 04:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtr View Post
Good call! Traded in my CLA45 for the F80 because of the crappy duel clutch tranny. It's like years behind newer Porsche, GTR, Ferrari, and VW. Super slow and delay shifts. If it came with a manual I probably wouldn't have traded it in.
After the consensus from pretty much everyone that its DCT sucked, it wouldn't surprise me that it is vastly improved for this next model. Still won't be on my list regardless until there is a stick to move.
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      06-21-2015, 05:34 PM   #16
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BMW M could do some interesting surgery on the 1er: 1 Series M Hatch.
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      06-21-2015, 06:20 PM   #17
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BMW M could do some interesting surgery on the 1er: 1 Series M Hatch.
Yes sir - there are a few here who have said that a M2GC or 1M 5 door are better choices than the M2 Coupe, myself included.

And now that the LCI 1er is out, it would look a lot better as well.
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      06-21-2015, 07:58 PM   #18
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I'll take a hatch over a sedan and a sedan over a coupe any day. While a coupe with a folding rear seat is surprisingly good, it's hard to beat the utility of extra doors and especially a hatch. After all, you have to go to COSTCO sometime.

I'm not interested in the Mercedes because of the transmission (suckage noted by many car magazines and owners), lack of a 6MT alternative, and the premium price tag. General turbo lag and reliability concerns would also be considerations if the others weren't showstoppers.
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      06-21-2015, 07:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sth519 View Post
Sure, people looking for anything with more than 2 doors will be more likely to buy an A45, RS3 or (possibly) R400. But that's the thing: People who are looking for an actual coupe are more likely to look into the M2 since... well... there is no other coupe in that segment.
True, but maybe a coupe and sedan should have been planned. I believe someone had said that the M235i is about the same size as the e36 M3 coupe, I wonder how a M235i GC/ M2 GC would stack up size wise.
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      06-21-2015, 08:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tke743 View Post
If the dual clutch in this new one is as bad as in the CLA 45 AMG I drove when looking at the M235i then it isn't in the same class. The ZF 8 speed in the M235i is MUCH better then that POS. I test drove both back to back.

It will probably have the FWD biased AWD too. That sucked too...
I test drove the gla amg which is same as a and cla and you are right the transmission is an absolute mess.
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      06-21-2015, 09:34 PM   #21
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My take is this S will probably be running a larger Turbo which means it can easily generate more power without running a higher boost or it may even be running a lower boost.

If it is from AMG you can thrash it all you like on the road and the motor will still be the last thing that breaks on the car.

The issue is the fun factor. With a laggy 4 banger running on automatic and 4WD...
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      06-21-2015, 10:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
True, but maybe a coupe and sedan should have been planned. I believe someone had said that the M235i is about the same size as the e36 M3 coupe, I wonder how a M235i GC/ M2 GC would stack up size wise.
Someone did this in another thread - the M235 is a little wider but not quite as long IIRC - but within an inch or two, so there could be a GC pretty easily in my opinion.
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