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      03-14-2015, 12:20 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by auf Deutsche View Post
Rumor has it and perhaps you can confirm, Ford will be doing will be doing a 5 year production run with 5500 units (500 of these for the R) annually. That's pretty close to what the GT500 is/was?? That seems more than enough to hopefully prevent dealer mark-up. I refuse to pay over MSRP.

Another problem I've heard is Ford lease rates are horrible for performance division cars. Let's hope that trend is broken with the GT350 and Focus RS.
That number sounds very accurate. But their trend is always push out the most volume the 1st year and if its a limited 3 year run, they taper it down slowly. The 3rd year you may see a production # well under 5000.

The SVT division have always had a history of low volume. The car that did not follow that pattern was the GT500. I never saw what the hype was all about with that car as they pumped out 15,000+ a year. I had a 2004 cobra that had a production run of roughly 5600 units. THey like to mix it up.

As for the terrible lease rates, I would not hold my breath. As cheap as I lease company cars they wont even give us a good lease rate. For example I was shopping a daily driver Focus ST 2 summers ago, and they told me the lese was $599 a month. I told them you are insane and that is more then my BMW 335i lease. I ended up with a regular focus to beat to death. Now they will lease an ST for $250 a month 2 years later. I was pissed when I saw it.

I cant honestly say much about Ford credit and the finance department but they have been getting better. Maybe they break the cycle this time around maybe not.

And I am right there with you...NOT paying 80K for a car that costs 53k. Sorry, love my company but thats nonsense. Like I stated earlier I can get a new M3 ED well below that. Let alone a used 991 carrera s.
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      03-14-2015, 02:35 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by 04cobra View Post
Man, some of the comments in this thread hurt my head. I have owned Ford's and BMWs. I love them both equally for different reasons.

Now Ford has been knocking it out of the park lately with all their new models, and whoever said no one is going to cross shop an RS to m235/m2 is wrong. I am currently cross shopping any performance car from $30k-50k.

If this Focus RS is anything like the ecoboost mustang (and it will be), tune/easy bolt ons (intake/exhaust) gets it into the 11s 1/4 mile range. Expect the RS to be quicker than that as it has AWD, and might be lighter.

While the interior of the RS might not be up to BMW standards, I am pretty tired of the same old BMW interior, I mean it really hasn't changed for the past 10 years. At least Ford is trying to make it look nicer. Will the M2 have a nicer interior? Probbaly, but take a look at some of the base model BMW's, they dont have the best interiors either.

The RS will also have some cool driving modes "Making the most of the Focus RS’ 320 horsepower and all-wheel-drive system are four driver modes Normal, Sport, Track, or Drift Mode"......"The effects of the other modes are familiar to Mustang drivers, but engaging the Drift mode alters the torque distribution to allow for controlled oversteer"

This car will also not be mid $40's. Not sure where everyone is getting those numbers from. It will be priced similar to the STI/EVO, mid to high $30s.

Sign me up.
By the way I had an 04 Termi. KB swap...it was an insane car and very respected for the early 2000's era. Use to roll on 600cc crotch rockets and they would be very stunned by it AH the good ole days.
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      03-14-2015, 05:06 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by den525 View Post
Amg will have to come out with a black edition to fight m2 and rs3
..and fit it with a gear box that doesn't suck.
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      03-14-2015, 11:49 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
<snip>
Sad to say as much as I want the GT350, I can still get an F80 M3 cheaper with Euro delivery. The Ford stealerships are super ridiculous with markups on cars like this. And they 99% of the time wont give us A-plan which is our employee discount because they just think the cars will roll off lots. This is why I am Eagerly anticipating the M2, and if that does not appeal on to the smurf blue M3 ED <snip>
Ahh.. the A plan. A million years ago when there was a Ford Aerospace I had to deal with that. Good luck with the dealers.

Still, you get to the root of the issue. With some patience, a BMW M2 may be a reasonable cost/performance choice with ED. Maybe $50K? That and maybe a less expensive Euro will hang in there for awhile longer to make for a fun trip. The GT350 on the other hand will likely sour after a dealer visit puts the famously ethical Ford Motor in sharp contrast with a justifiably hated dealership system. That leaves the Focus RS. It may be available in enough numbers and will be confusing enough to the dealer Bubba's that the buying experience won't be so bad. If it hits $40K, then it's back to BMW. However, if it's cheap, and fast, and fun, and has as good an interior as a Golf R, then things get interesting.
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      03-15-2015, 12:48 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook410
Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
&lt;snip>
Sad to say as much as I want the GT350, I can still get an F80 M3 cheaper with Euro delivery. The Ford stealerships are super ridiculous with markups on cars like this. And they 99% of the time wont give us A-plan which is our employee discount because they just think the cars will roll off lots. This is why I am Eagerly anticipating the M2, and if that does not appeal on to the smurf blue M3 ED &lt;snip>
Ahh.. the A plan. A million years ago when there was a Ford Aerospace I had to deal with that. Good luck with the dealers.

Still, you get to the root of the issue. With some patience, a BMW M2 may be a reasonable cost/performance choice with ED. Maybe $50K? That and maybe a less expensive Euro will hang in there for awhile longer to make for a fun trip. The GT350 on the other hand will likely sour after a dealer visit puts the famously ethical Ford Motor in sharp contrast with a justifiably hated dealership system. That leaves the Focus RS. It may be available in enough numbers and will be confusing enough to the dealer Bubba's that the buying experience won't be so bad. If it hits $40K, then it's back to BMW. However, if it's cheap, and fast, and fun, and has as good an interior as a Golf R, then things get interesting.
Very cool. What did you do within the aerospace program?
A-plan is great if your buying an escape haha, the minute you try to get something cool and premium they start rolling their eyes at you! I just wait it out! I said til the car is out for over a year and then they beg for you to buy it.

What can I say about the dealerships that you don't already know! They're absolutely atrocious and think they know everything and you're always wasting their time! This culture needs to change they give FoMoCo a bad image.

Hell 2 weeks ago my Ford lease needed an oil change and it became such a hassle because I couldn't make the dealership by 4pm because their "awesome" techs leave at 5! Guy literally laughed at me and said shhhhaaah you want an oil change today? Yeah not today? Like I was asking him for his weekly salary smh. Needless to say it was a frustrating ordeal they act like total dicks.

@bmw they say oh yes sir Mr. Doss it'll be a couple hours would you like loaner to run chores while we service your car?!

Anyway I like your plan! I think most certainly I'd love a focus RS, but I'm also going to wait out the M2! I think it will be that good! I think it will be E46 M3 epic even bigger .
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      03-15-2015, 06:43 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
Very cool. What did you do within the aerospace program?
<snip>
In the early 80's, Ford Aerospace was one of the major contractors that built Mission Control in Houston. I worked on the generation that led to and supported the early Space Shuttle flights as a fresh-out-of-school design engineer. Of course, we were later bought by Loral and then Lockheed Martin. A good reason to miss working for FoMoCo which treated us very well.

Back on topic.. I think we agree. Now is the time for patience. There are just about to be more players on the field. It's not that I think any of them will be an absolute match for the M2 (except the GT350 of course), but it's quite possible that they will compel us to try them with a combination of attributes.
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      03-15-2015, 07:26 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook410
Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1981 View Post
Very cool. What did you do within the aerospace program?
&lt;snip>
In the early 80's, Ford Aerospace was one of the major contractors that built Mission Control in Houston. I worked on the generation that led to and supported the early Space Shuttle flights as a fresh-out-of-school design engineer. Of course, we were later bought by Loral and then Lockheed Martin. A good reason to miss working for FoMoCo which treated us very well.

Back on topic.. I think we agree. Now is the time for patience. There are just about to be more players on the field. It's not that I think any of them will be an absolute match for the M2 (except the GT350 of course), but it's quite possible that they will compel us to try them with a combination of attributes.
A remarkable career and resume! Yes Ford does take care of for the most part.

On to the M2 perhaps we can see a sneak peek soon of the real darn car! I'm going crazy.
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      03-15-2015, 07:37 PM   #96
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Definitely a sweet little car. Probably as fast as a M235 around a track, maybe faster with that AWD. Obviously the materials and design aren't as nice but from a pure performance comparison it's very respectable. Let alone fun.
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      03-15-2015, 07:58 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by ska///235i View Post
Attitude? Since when did ford start making luxury & sports cars? Yea the mustang is the only iconic car ford made but thats about it.
You have a lack of knowledge of the first 100 years of cars. (That's just about all the years ) Ford is one of the most important car manufactures and have built countless sporty and iconic cars. In many years some of the fastest ever created. I wasn't alive for most of it but I'm very aware they existed and have contributed greatly to automotive history. Performance per $ is hard to beat when it comes to american brands.
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      03-24-2015, 06:51 PM   #98
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Looks like the RS will kick out 345 hp - not bad.

http://www.autogespot.com/ford-focus-rs-produces-345-hp!

Ford Focus RS produces 345 hp! KarstenNews18102015-03-19 15:32
Ford Focus RS produces 345 hp! Last month the Ford Focus RS was introduced. The car, which was developed in cooperation with Ken Block, got a lot of positive response while Ford didn't really unveil much more than the impressive exterior of the car. Of course we know all know that the car has four-wheel drive where you can transfer a maximum of 70 percent to the rear wheels which results in a Ford Focus that should be able to drift.

But how much is 70 percent of the power? Ford didn't answer this question but meanwhile we know the answer thanks to a leak on the Spanish and Irish Ford website. The Ford Focus RS will produce 345 hp! That's great and this means that the RS will be a direct competitor of the A 45 AMG. Ford was aiming for at least 315 hp and probably wanted to keep the exact amount of power a secret until the real market introduction of the RS. The amount of torque is still a secret but we know that this is a turbo engine so we won't need to worry about this!
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      03-25-2015, 07:07 AM   #99
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I think people are really underestimating this car just because its a Focus. You'll be surprised.
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      03-25-2015, 12:11 PM   #100
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For those of you who think the Focus RS is going to be in the mid 40K range are wrong. According to Ford it will undercut the Volkswagen Golf R which is at $37k. My guess is in the low 30K range for a decently equipped car. There is no way a Focus RS is going to be in stone throwing range of price of a Mustang GT350 which will start in the $50k range.

A Focus ST fully loaded is $28k...thats before incentives and negotiated price. Easily can be had in the $25K range, so how is the Focus RS going to be $20k more money.

I am going to cross-shop with the M2 and the Focus RS. I own 2 Fords now a Fiesta ST (a hoot of a car) and my wife has a Ford Escape Titanium, both are excellent vehicles. I have owned 2 E46 M3s, 2 E92 M3s and a Porsche 997S. I am thoroughly impressed with Ford as of late. They finally get it that you just can't build trucks.

To be frank I feel the M2 will come within a whisker of the F8X cars in performance. These could be a very good buy for a Marquee brand car. I'm just tired of making $800 month car payments. With the cars coming out today you don't need to, to get a quality car at a good price.

As far as the final hp rating, we will see. The 2.3L Ecoboost motor in the Mustang is 310hp, to be frank I don't like this motor. Power delivery drops off like Mt. Everest after 5500 rpm, tuners are able to rectify this but now you kiss your warranty goodbye. As the FRPP Performance pack will just build more midrange while still making the same amount of power in the higher rpm range. Although companies like Mountune and Cobb are going to have a field day with this car.

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      03-27-2015, 03:58 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
<snip>
To be frank I feel the M2 will come within a whisker of the F8X cars in performance. These could be a very good buy for a Marquee brand car. I'm just tired of making $800 month car payments. With the cars coming out today you don't need to, to get a quality car at a good price.

<snip>
Dave
Exactly. I don't think a Focus RS will be as nice as a BMW M2. However, if it offer 90% of the driving fun, more utility, and survivable ergo's for a daily driver, and considerably cheaper, then I will happily apply the savings elsewhere.

Where it gets tricky is:
- How high will the Focus RS MSRP be and how long after introduction will the horrid US Ford Dealers insist on upping it?
- What will BMW price the M2 at and what can we get one on ED for?
- Unless you're going to track the car, why not just recognize the limits to how we can drive on US roads and get a 235 now?
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      03-27-2015, 04:39 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook410 View Post
Exactly. I don't think a Focus RS will be as nice as a BMW M2. However, if it offer 90% of the driving fun, more utility, and survivable ergo's for a daily driver, and considerably cheaper, then I will happily apply the savings elsewhere.

Where it gets tricky is:
- How high will the Focus RS MSRP be and how long after introduction will the horrid US Ford Dealers insist on upping it?
- What will BMW price the M2 at and what can we get one on ED for?
- Unless you're going to track the car, why not just recognize the limits to how we can drive on US roads and get a 235 now?
From interacting with another forum member who works for Ford, lease deals will stink. As an employee, he was offered $550/mo on an ST a while back. Of course, he passed. That was a $25k car. Imagine a $35k car in the RS. Apparently, SVT models don't lease well. BMWs do.
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      03-27-2015, 04:59 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
&lt;snip>
To be frank I feel the M2 will come within a whisker of the F8X cars in performance. These could be a very good buy for a Marquee brand car. I'm just tired of making $800 month car payments. With the cars coming out today you don't need to, to get a quality car at a good price.

&lt;snip>
Dave
Exactly. I don't think a Focus RS will be as nice as a BMW M2. However, if it offer 90% of the driving fun, more utility, and survivable ergo's for a daily driver, and considerably cheaper, then I will happily apply the savings elsewhere.

Where it gets tricky is:
- How high will the Focus RS MSRP be and how long after introduction will the horrid US Ford Dealers insist on upping it?
- What will BMW price the M2 at and what can we get one on ED for?
- Unless you're going to track the car, why not just recognize the limits to how we can drive on US roads and get a 235 now?
in Murica you can't drive Corolla at 75%! where the hell you gonna drive 235 except Montana?
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      03-27-2015, 06:05 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
in Murica you can't drive Corolla at 75%! where the hell you gonna drive 235 except Montana?
Though I enjoyed the driving dynamics of my 135 in spite of reliability problems and have fond memories of my E36, this is a good argument for the 228. The 228 keeps haunting me.. it's an awfully good deal and is arguably quite fast enough.

Of course, living in New Mexico with both mountain and open roads and significantly less traffic there may be more opportunities for the small pleasures you can have from a fast car in the role of daily driver and weekend tripper compared to the northeast.
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      03-27-2015, 06:47 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook410
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Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
in Murica you can't drive Corolla at 75%! where the hell you gonna drive 235 except Montana?
Though I enjoyed the driving dynamics of my 135 in spite of reliability problems and have fond memories of my E36, this is a good argument for the 228. The 228 keeps haunting me.. it's an awfully good deal and is arguably quite fast enough.

Of course, living in New Mexico with both mountain and open roads and significantly less traffic there may be more opportunities for the small pleasures you can have from a fast car in the role of daily driver and weekend tripper compared to the northeast.
yep agree ... but there is hpde
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      03-27-2015, 08:41 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
in Murica you can't drive Corolla at 75%! where the hell you gonna drive 235 except Montana?
That's that problem I have justifying the M2. The M235 and RS should really be enough for brief stints of fun on the road. North of 5 seconds, both are going to be illegal in most states. As Spooke said, it will be easy to find other uses for the spare change as well.

In addition, I will track the M2; but to be honest, figure my enthusiasm, spare time and spare money will be spent after 3 sessions. If I really get into tracking, I could buy the RS and a used Miata/S2000 and beat the heck out of em. And if I blow into a barrier, its not a $60 Kcar. For me, that's the difference between laughing and crying.
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      03-27-2015, 09:13 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abp689
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
in Murica you can't drive Corolla at 75%! where the hell you gonna drive 235 except Montana?
That's that problem I have justifying the M2. The M235 and RS should really be enough for brief stints of fun on the road. North of 5 seconds, both are going to be illegal in most states. As Spooke said, it will be easy to find other uses for the spare change as well.

In addition, I will track the M2; but to be honest, figure my enthusiasm, spare time and spare money will be spent after 3 sessions. If I really get into tracking, I could buy the RS and a used Miata/S2000 and beat the heck out of em. And if I blow into a barrier, its not a $60 Kcar. For me, that's the difference between laughing and crying.
the real question is which one will put a smile on your face? I can't see myself driving a Miata or RS. I would get gti and e36/46 m3 instead. The best option for dual purpose car might be M2 and maybe the cheapest. It has warranty and you can get track ins. Choices choices ...
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      03-27-2015, 09:14 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abp689 View Post
That's that problem I have justifying the M2. The M235 and RS should really be enough for brief stints of fun on the road. North of 5 seconds, both are going to be illegal in most states. As Spooke said, it will be easy to find other uses for the spare change as well.

In addition, I will track the M2; but to be honest, figure my enthusiasm, spare time and spare money will be spent after 3 sessions. If I really get into tracking, I could buy the RS and a used Miata/S2000 and beat the heck out of em. And if I blow into a barrier, its not a $60 Kcar. For me, that's the difference between laughing and crying.
That's why I never agreed with the people that kept saying that the M2 needs to be at least 400 hp. It simply doesn't imo.

The things that will make a difference whether or not you track or not are the brakes (they are absolutely superb on th M3/4), better EPS and stiffer suspension. I think it'll be exactly what I'm looking for, and enough for me to spend this money on my first new car.
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      03-27-2015, 09:27 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
the real question is which one will put a smile on your face? I can't see myself driving a Miata or RS. I would get gti and e36/46 m3 instead. The best option for dual purpose car might be M2 and maybe the cheapest. It has warranty and you can get track ins. Choices choices ...
Smh, don't you know the answer is always "Miata"?
And if you saw Ken Block's Gymkhana with the Ford Focus RS, it seems like plenty of fun, more fun than probably most can handle or extract.

Thing is, outside of a race car driver, most people will never get to the limits of these cars, especially the majority of M3/M4 drivers. They are for looks only. Take a look at all the people who get their M3/M4s and take them right to the shop for wheels, etc. 6 months from then, more power, even though most haven't even gotten used to or can handle the power that the stock car has.
And then 1-2 yrs down the road, if the car hasn't been crashed, it's another M3/M4.
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      03-28-2015, 07:25 AM   #110
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That's why I never agreed with the people that kept saying that the M2 needs to be at least 400 hp. It simply doesn't imo.

The things that will make a difference whether or not you track or not are the brakes (they are absolutely superb on th M3/4), better EPS and stiffer suspension. I think it'll be exactly what I'm looking for, and enough for me to spend this money on my first new car.
I agree 375HP will be plenty! I do wish it got the S55 but its not a deal breaker. What Im most concerned with is the price of the M2! If it starts to slide into M3 territory no way am I going in on that I dont care how good it is. Ill take a bare bones M3.

In conclusion the wait still continues for us all. Who ever said get an M235i its plenty for legal limits "theyre insane". M2 is where its at not taking anything away from the 235i but I want the gosh damn M3/4 suspension attached to the F87!

Focus RS will be killer make no mistakes about it but Im not paying a 8K dealer markup who refuse me my A plan because they are imbeciles!
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