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      12-15-2014, 04:10 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVC View Post
What are your objectives for the M2 (assuming it meets expectations)?
I want a dual purpose car, do not want to trailer anything to the track. So, I want a car that I can go to work daily, take clients to lunches or dinners, drive around with my wife in comfort (no need for back seat) and go to the track once or twice a month by just changing tires. Porsches are best for this IMO; however, anything less than a GT car is not worth the extra performance or feel, I argue, compared to an M2 or M4 considering the price difference. But then again, I really haven't used a BMW in this manner yet, when the M4 arrives it will be the first test for me to see if I am right or wrong
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      12-15-2014, 08:41 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
I want a dual purpose car, do not want to trailer anything to the track. So, I want a car that I can go to work daily, take clients to lunches or dinners, drive around with my wife in comfort (no need for back seat) and go to the track once or twice a month by just changing tires. Porsches are best for this IMO; however, anything less than a GT car is not worth the extra performance or feel, I argue, compared to an M2 or M4 considering the price difference. But then again, I really haven't used a BMW in this manner yet, when the M4 arrives it will be the first test for me to see if I am right or wrong
Well, actually I think our objectives are pretty similar... except I kinda do want a back seat that I can claim to my wife will fit a couple kids in a pinch.

Very interesting thoughts about non-GT Porsches not being worth the premium over an M car... whether or not the additional amount of performance/feel that you'd get is worth it is really what it boils down to, I think. (But for me, the decision point won't be about how much extra I'd spend on a Porsche, but rather how old of a 911 I'd have to consider buying ; )
I guess it all comes down to how good the M2 turns out to be when it comes out... I just hope it's more 'improved 1M' than 'less powerful M4'
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      12-17-2014, 03:45 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
I want a dual purpose car, do not want to trailer anything to the track. So, I want a car that I can go to work daily, take clients to lunches or dinners, drive around with my wife in comfort (no need for back seat) and go to the track once or twice a month by just changing tires. Porsches are best for this IMO; however, anything less than a GT car is not worth the extra performance or feel, I argue, compared to an M2 or M4 considering the price difference. But then again, I really haven't used a BMW in this manner yet, when the M4 arrives it will be the first test for me to see if I am right or wrong

I think exactly the way regarding non-M BMWs and mainstream car brand. In other words, if you are not getting a BMW M, or Mercedes-AMG in that regards, your better off with a Toyota.
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      12-17-2014, 08:13 PM   #92
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I think exactly the way regarding non-M BMWs and mainstream car brand. In other words, if you are not getting a BMW M, or Mercedes-AMG in that regards, your better off with a Toyota.
And what Toyota would that be at the moment? A Toyotabaru? Tried it, it has so much potential, but I cannot lie with that lack of power. And it's not like I'm not used to slower cars. It feels like my E36 M3 (US spec) would run circles around it. Just my 2 cents.

I would have highly considered just a normal M235i. I had way more fun during the test drive than I thought I would, and the car was an automatic (I prefer 6 spd). If the M2 wasn't coming out, I would have probably said that would have been my next car to add to E92. There's a good reason why that car was praised in general.

Having said that, not 100% sure I'd pick that car for occasional track day though.
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      12-19-2014, 05:48 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
I think exactly the way regarding non-M BMWs and mainstream car brand. In other words, if you are not getting a BMW M, or Mercedes-AMG in that regards, your better off with a Toyota.
You would rather have a front wheel drive car?
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      12-19-2014, 08:44 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
You would rather have a front wheel drive car?
He is talking about the GT86/FRS. The car drives great but I doubt the brakes or engine will hold out. I'd say 911 all the way. Porsche brakes stay strong.

Lancer Evolution drives great on the track also.
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      12-21-2014, 11:44 PM   #95
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What do all you think of the comment Hartmut Kristen, head of P Motorsport, made regarding the GT4?
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Not everyone wants 600 hp, lots of downforce, and a car costing 500,000 Euros. We have had a look to see if there is something we can do below that for our customers. Whatever it is, it has to be more affordable, less sophisticated and probably more fun.
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      12-21-2014, 11:55 PM   #96
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Just compare GT3 vs. GT4-spec race cars in general. GT4 cars resemble their street counterparts a lot more and indeed the rules allow less deviation. A 911 made for GT3 racing costs way more than the street version it is based upon and you can see why based on all the changes and toys that go into it. Likewise, the Z4 race car hardly resembles a street Z4 at all.

So the motorsport version of the Cayman isn't going to have all the bells and whistles, special parts, toys, etc. The engine probably won't need to be rebuilt as often either. This keeps costs down for customers.
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      12-22-2014, 12:21 PM   #97
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Yes certainly, but GT4 racing hasn't had the marketing appeal of the GT3 class. How does this impact the Cayman GT4 then? Also, the 500K Euro mentioned is for the full Le Mans trim GT3 RSR, or now the 911 RSR. That's why there is the 911 Cup in various trims ranging from $180K to $225K. Would you think that these comments are some reflection on the i235 Racing?
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      12-22-2014, 01:21 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
Yes certainly, but GT4 racing hasn't had the marketing appeal of the GT3 class. How does this impact the Cayman GT4 then? Also, the 500K Euro mentioned is for the full Le Mans trim GT3 RSR, or now the 911 RSR. That's why there is the 911 Cup in various trims ranging from $180K to $225K. Would you think that these comments are some reflection on the i235 Racing?
Are you asking how this impacts the street Cayman GT4 or the motorsports "Cup" version of the Cayman? I'm not really educated enough to answer either question.

For the street Cayman GT4, fitting the car into Porsche's lineup from a marketing perspective will have a lot to do with it, not just motorsport regulations. For example, Porsche could fit a 430hp 3.8L in the Cayman and develop a more sophisticated suspension, but they won't do it. Have to protect the 911 as the top model. As I mentioned, GT4 regulations are more limiting compared to GT3, so there could be some considerations there, but you'd have to understand all the rules to see how that affects the street car.

As for the cup cars, I can tell you that the 911 Cup car has extensive weight savings / carbon fiber and a lot of race-only parts not found on the street 911 GT3. I suspect that Cayman "cup car" will have all the reliability and safety mods you would expect, but I suspect that it will not be as extreme in terms of development of special race parts and carbon fiber. It may not have the expensive gearbox and things of that nature. Just my speculation, so don't take it as anything other than that.
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      12-25-2014, 05:10 AM   #99
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Nice thread !

I`m really anxious to see what is coming from BMW as well Porsche.

Owning a 1M and a Cayman GTS, it can only become better. I love both cars and it`s really impossible for me to favor one above the other, they are both great, great driving machines, for me the best German engineering has to offer.

An M2 is certainly on the wish list, the GT4, well, the future will tell....
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      12-28-2014, 03:37 AM   #100
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I still think that a standard M2 (and not a Comp Pack or GTS model) will not be close to Porche's track performance. I'm curious more about the upgraded M2 capabilities in the "battle" with Porsche.
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      12-28-2014, 01:35 PM   #101
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Pick m235i over gt4???? I personally don't even think the m235u is a good comparison against a cayman s. Both are great cars but have very different focuses. The gt4 is going to be an animal
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      12-28-2014, 02:41 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebmxbikes View Post
Pick m235i over gt4???? I personally don't even think the m235u is a good comparison against a cayman s. Both are great cars but have very different focuses. The gt4 is going to be an animal
No he said standard M2 not m235i. Eventually bmw will release upgraded models like the competition pack, as they have with prior m3 models.

That said, two cars can turn similar lap times but one can feel way more competent than the other. M5 vs a lighter car for example. So even if m2 is similarly fast as a gt4, how it feels is more important.

Last edited by vantagesc; 12-28-2014 at 02:46 PM..
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      01-05-2015, 08:28 AM   #103
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The M2 and Cayman GT4 won't be in the same league anywhere, asides from maybe power output! About the same as the 1M and Cayman R. Around a track and as a sports car the R runs rings around a 1M.

However, the price difference will also be big. If the M2 could get anywhere near a Cayman GTS I would be extremely pleased! But in reality it's probably going to go head to head with the Cayman S.
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      01-06-2015, 08:30 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acey81 View Post
The M2 and Cayman GT4 won't be in the same league anywhere, asides from maybe power output! About the same as the 1M and Cayman R. Around a track and as a sports car the R runs rings around a 1M.

However, the price difference will also be big. If the M2 could get anywhere near a Cayman GTS I would be extremely pleased! But in reality it's probably going to go head to head with the Cayman S.
Agreed on all points. The M2 will probably be quite literally half the price of a GT4.

I must admit though, I've been drooling all over these pics, but I know that's way out of my price range:
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      01-06-2015, 09:36 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Agreed on all points. The M2 will probably be quite literally half the price of a GT4.

I must admit though, I've been drooling all over these pics, but I know that's way out of my price range:
Sweet baby Jesus that is beautiful.
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      01-06-2015, 12:22 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acey81 View Post
The M2 and Cayman GT4 won't be in the same league anywhere, asides from maybe power output! About the same as the 1M and Cayman R. Around a track and as a sports car the R runs rings around a 1M.

However, the price difference will also be big. If the M2 could get anywhere near a Cayman GTS I would be extremely pleased! But in reality it's probably going to go head to head with the Cayman S.
The 1M held up pretty well against the Cayman R, with several mags picking it over the Cayman R, even though the latter was slightly faster around the race track. Feel/character of the cars is another story.

The GT4 is moving the game ahead far more than the Cayman R did compared to a standard Cayman, so for now I do not think BMW has an answer. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the M2 to match up reasonably well to the Cayman S/GTS in the real world. The GTS isn't that much faster than a S...Porsche has certainly succeeded in creating the perception that it's an a different level.

I'm hoping Porsche delays the GT4 announcement long enough for M2 details to be leaked!
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      01-06-2015, 12:34 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vantagesc View Post
The 1M held up pretty well against the Cayman R, with several mags picking it over the Cayman R, even though the latter was slightly faster around the race track. Feel/character of the cars is another story.

The GT4 is moving the game ahead far more than the Cayman R did compared to a standard Cayman, so for now I do not think BMW has an answer. But I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the M2 to match up reasonably well to the Cayman S/GTS in the real world. The GTS isn't that much faster than a S...Porsche has certainly succeeded in creating the perception that it's an a different level.

I'm hoping Porsche delays the GT4 announcement long enough for M2 details to be leaked!
I think the only reason the 1M ever won any comparisons is because of its practicality and price vs the Cayman IMHO.

If the M2 was pitted against the GTS (forget the GT4, that's another league in terms of performance and price), I think it would be same argument as previous comparisons. The M2 will be more practical than a Cayman. And worst case scenario, it starts in the high $50k's, that's still quite a bit cheaper than the Cayman S, yet alone a Cayman GTS.

Have to say though, I'm anxiously waiting to see what the GT4 ends up like. Definitely something I can see myself in way way down the road.
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      01-06-2015, 12:58 PM   #108
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M2 won't even come close to Cayman GT4. Cayman GT4 is on a totally different level, both performance wise and price wise. The only thing they have in common is that they are both the smallest performance cars you can get, both pocket rockets.
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      01-07-2015, 01:50 PM   #109
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Even though the Cayman GT4 is at a much higher price point, I would be willing to take the financial hit for it
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      01-07-2015, 01:52 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluekn8286 View Post
Even though the Cayman GT4 is at a much higher price point, I would be willing to take the financial hit for it
I am not a Porsche fan, but I will admit that car is quite amazing. Perfect little sportscar.
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