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      02-11-2016, 10:31 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
BMW doesn't like giving out proprietary information
Oh come on, you're avoiding addressing my point.

They DID give out "proprietary" (if you can call it that, it's only temporary until the first one is sold) information relating to all of the other changes with the motor.

So why did they chose to exclude only the turbo?

So it's OK for them to point out the new block, crank, pistons, etc. but not the turbo?

Again, the "BMW doesn't like giving out info" argument doesn't work, because they gave out everything else!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post

Did you see the difference in the N54B30TO and N55B30TO dyno curves?
The new motor makes a TON more power at 6500 rpm and is still making power where the N54 has already given up... It looks like it really fully pulls to 7000.... I don't think that's just tuning and beefed up internals..

- everyone doubts BMW M... and they always find a way to throw down a trump card.

As you mentioned.... there is a lot of work done to the M2 motor.... and I can't see keeping the same snail when so much else has changed from the regular N55 - this is BMW M..
The N54 isn't a good example...because with a tune, those turbos CAN hold power farther into the rev range.

That being said, the standard N55 can't. Which I think is darn good evidence of a bigger turbo...so in the end, I agree with you.

Still makes no sense that they'd withhold that information, since they're clearly so concerned with people thinking this is just a regular N55.

And simply because it's "BMW M" doesn't mean much either. The 1M (which is the car most comparable to this one) got a plain-Jane N54. No new anything sans a tune.
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      02-11-2016, 10:36 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
So I Guess you probably feel that a power boost as part of an LCI or " competition " package is totally useless too...
How you translate his statement that M is above M Performance on a scale to that he doesn't want any power increase is beyond me.

A power increase labels M Performance on a M car is mislabeled.
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      02-11-2016, 10:38 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
where's the dyno numbers?
One stop shopping? You can try burgertuning.com

Or feel free to view any of the hundreds and hundreds of N20, N54, N55, S55 dynos posted on the forums over the years.

Jesus man, even the quickest search reveals that your 10% number is way off, yet you're still posting.
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      02-11-2016, 10:41 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
So I Guess you probably feel that a power boost as part of an LCI or " competition " package is totally useless too...
No, that would make more sense to a M-car, even tho I highly doubt the competition package for the M2. But MPPK for a M...I mean whats the purpose of MPPK(?) to make it perform like a M right?




Competition pckg makes sense cause its a step up from, just M-power for everyday use, to a pckg dedicated for better tracking.

Power boost as part of LCI can be done to keep the distance from the coming B-motor M(performance)235i or external competitors.

So the compt.pckg and PB makes more sense.
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      02-11-2016, 10:51 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makman View Post
MPPK doesnt make any sense on a M-car...

M-power>M-performance
Lost in translation for M2 Competition Pack a la ZCP
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      02-11-2016, 11:02 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
One stop shopping? You can try burgertuning.com

Or feel free to view any of the hundreds and hundreds of N20, N54, N55, S55 dynos posted on the forums over the years.

Jesus man, even the quickest search reveals that your 10% number is way off, yet you're still posting.
I used Burger Tuning for my numbers. About 9% for M235i and 11% for S55. I think you are the one who is mistaken.
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      02-11-2016, 11:24 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
I used Burger Tuning for my numbers. About 9% for M235i and 11% for S55. I think you are the one who is mistaken.
Are you looking at like a 91 octane "map 1" as the basis for your numbers? That is not showing the limits of the stock turbos, which is what we're talking about.

As per their website and dynos, on an N55, for example, their piggy can add about 60 whp (or about 80 bhp) over stock, on an other wise stock car. That's over 20%. That turbo is nearer being maxed out, hence, as shown in the plots, gains from other bolt ons are minimal.

The N54? about 70-80 whp, or 100 bhp with their piggy, on an otherwise stock car. Those go up a lot with other bolt ons, as the N54 twins have much more capacity than the N55's single snail. You'll see 500 bhp cars on stock snails. Something impossible with the N55.

There are dyno plots of an S55 putting down 80+ whp over stock, with no modifications whatsoever. People are in the mid 500 whp easy on the stock turbos, again, well over 10%.

Again, not all of their turbo engines have the same headroom in the turbos, and all of them have much more room than 10% over stock.

There's about a million threads about people complaining about the N55, and how it doesn't have nearly the same potential as the N54. Largely that comes down to turbo size.
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Last edited by PrematureApex; 02-11-2016 at 11:32 AM..
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      02-11-2016, 11:31 AM   #118
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M235i base whp: 295.57, stage 1: 323.15 diff: 9.3 %
M3: base whp: 427.30, stage 1: 479.01 diff: 10.8 %
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      02-11-2016, 11:34 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
M235i base whp: 295.57, stage 1: 323.15 diff: 9.3 %
M3: base whp: 427.30, stage 1: 479.01 diff: 10.8 %
Stage 1 (similar to a BMW PPK) is hardly demonstrating the limits of the turbos, which is what we're talking about.

We're talking about how much power the stock turbos support. Even on otherwise stock cars, it's well over 20% gains. Look at the various JB4 dyno plots.
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      02-11-2016, 11:45 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Stage 1 (similar to a BMW PPK) is hardly demonstrating the limits of the turbos, which is what we're talking about.
Huh? You were the one who quoted me, saying how I didnt know what I was talking about when I said 10% whp would be expected with stage 1 and 93 oct.
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      02-11-2016, 07:22 PM   #121
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Guys, come on now. We don't know didly on the turbo size. We will soon enough.

Personally, I think BMW is smarter than putting in a small turbo operating near the upper limits of thermal efficiency and packaging that around an upgraded motor all of which is designed to be operated at/near the limits for a prolonged period on a track.

If I am wrong I promise you I will buy a new turbo for my car, which is being built presently.
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      02-11-2016, 08:15 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovsky
Guys, come on now. We don't know didly on the turbo size. We will soon enough.

Personally, I think BMW is smarter than putting in a small turbo operating near the upper limits of thermal efficiency and packaging that around an upgraded motor all of which is designed to be operated at/near the limits for a prolonged period on a track.

If I am wrong I promise you I will buy a new turbo for my car, which is being built presently.
There are plenty of turbos. My question is, how is the turbo being built? With the new manifold design I can't see Pure or Vargas coming up with a solution until they tear one apart. They are integrated. The N55 currently uses a small BW efr unit, yet there aren't any solutions that utilize a similar turbo unless a custom manifold is built.

I'm not questioning you. I just want to know some details!
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      02-12-2016, 05:37 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovsky View Post
Guys, come on now. We don't know didly on the turbo size. We will soon enough.

Personally, I think BMW is smarter than putting in a small turbo operating near the upper limits of thermal efficiency and packaging that around an upgraded motor all of which is designed to be operated at/near the limits for a prolonged period on a track.

If I am wrong I promise you I will buy a new turbo for my car, which is being built presently.
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RingMeister01 what you think?
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      02-12-2016, 11:57 PM   #124
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Special thanks to the OP for posting this. Great document, really shows the value that this car represents for the minimal cost over the M235i. The only problem is the more I read the more excited I get and I have months to go.
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      02-13-2016, 12:15 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosozoku View Post
"A Gurney is an aerodynamic component and functions as a tear-off edge. The Gurney was so-called after a former Formula 1 driver. "

The Gurney flap increases the downforce of a wing while producing very little extra drag.
Maybe helps to reduce rear-end lift on trunk lids of street cars.

Dan Gurney is an American racing hero, the first of only three drivers to win races in F1, Indy Car, Sports Cars, and NASCAR. (The others being Mario Andretti and Juan Pablo Montoya.)

And he was the first driver (together with A.J. Foyt at Le Mans) to spray champagne on the winners' podium.

Just FYI.
Juan Pablo Montoya is Columbian, lives in Miami but only since he started racing in the USA. I don't believe he is a citizen, I am sure he wasn't at the time he raced in F1. Prior to F1 he spent two years racing in CART which was the only time he spent in the USA prior to returning to race in NASCAR.
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      02-13-2016, 02:51 AM   #126
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ColOmbian, not ColUmbian
(My wife is from there)

Anyway, thanks for sharing those documents.
I couldn't find it in the info but I somewhere heard the brakecalipers are made by Brembo?

Thanks

Cheers
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      02-13-2016, 03:12 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
ColOmbian, not ColUmbian
(My wife is from there)

Anyway, thanks for sharing those documents.
I couldn't find it in the info but I somewhere heard the brakecalipers are made by Brembo?

Thanks

Cheers
Robin
Yes, they're brembos
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      02-13-2016, 09:43 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBNYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovsky View Post
Guys, come on now. We don't know didly on the turbo size. We will soon enough.

Personally, I think BMW is smarter than putting in a small turbo operating near the upper limits of thermal efficiency and packaging that around an upgraded motor all of which is designed to be operated at/near the limits for a prolonged period on a track.

If I am wrong I promise you I will buy a new turbo for my car, which is being built presently.
+1
RingMeister01 what you think?
sahyoun
I honestly don't know enough about the N55 to comment but I'd guess BMW are using same turbo unit as on standard N55 for economic reasons.

I think a lot of development would be necessary with a completely new turbo, at which point a S55 swap would have been easier for them. Once you alter an engine it has to go through extensive EPA testing, where N55 and S55 are already pass.

Again, just open thought on my end.
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      02-13-2016, 10:00 AM   #129
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Has anyone mentioned the unsprung weight they saved on the M2? It states they saved 2.8 lbs with the new wheel flange compared to the e82. Does anyone know if this is total or per corner. If per corner, that's substantial. Also the weight they saved on the wheels...what is 2-4 lbs per corner compared to the 1M? So, while ultimately heavier than the 1M, the M2 seems to have saved anywhere from 15-24 lbs of unsprung weight from these two items alone. Does anyone know if the brakes and rotors are lighter? On the other hand, there could be other components that add to the unsprung weight that I am ignoring...
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      02-16-2016, 07:49 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Interesting how the M235 has a coefficient of drag at 0.33 and the M2 is *less* slippery at 0.35

Apparently all the M aero guys were where ?

Perhaps it's a good thing they didn't get a chance to add " M mirrors " and slow it down some more, to the tune of 1M Cd of 0.37.....
Here's something. The autocar review says:

"Together the exterior design changes are claimed to have reduced drag by 5% as well as reducing lift by up to 35% over the standard 2-Series coupé."

Well if the standard 2-series coupe has a Cd of 0.29, the the M2 is at least down to 0.28.
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      02-17-2016, 06:53 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auf Deutsch
24 lbs of interior sound deadening material removed compared to the 235i. Good, we'll be able to hear the N55, which is a great sounding motor, a lot better.

Please, no whining about the M2 being too loud for DDing.
If it's too loud then we can disconnect the active sound which I will likely do anyway.
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      02-18-2016, 08:40 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToe View Post
If it's too loud then we can disconnect the active sound which I will likely do anyway.
You can't just disconnect it.
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