[hson10]

Hi folks,

I'm having a pretty bad clicking noise when I go from lock to lock when stationary on my M2. I installed MSS Height Adjustable Springs on my car this past weekend, and then the noise started coming up maybe ~400mi after install.

I'm tempted to say it's the top hat / bearing, but wanted to see if others have had this issue before I order new top hats since they're pretty pricey. I already tried taking off the wheel and applying silicone spray towards the tophat area, and made sure there were no rocks in the wheel well. Shop said they have torqued everything to spec.

This first link is the noise from my car:

Second link is an M4 but with the exact same noise.

**Pinch strut bolt tightened and replaced with new bolts, noise has come back**

[M Fifty]

Why would the existing top hats suddenly start making a noise as a result of changing the springs? The spring seats into a really big thrust race, so look at the other end, or suspect a seating issue.

[hson10]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

Why would the existing top hats suddenly start making a noise as a result of changing the springs? The spring seats into a really big thrust race, so look at the other end, or suspect a seating issue.

Originally Posted by M Fifty

Why would the existing top hats suddenly start making a noise as a result of changing the springs? The spring seats into a really big thrust race, so look at the other end, or suspect a seating issue.

Yeah you're totally right. I felt like that didn't make sense either.

Ended up finding the problem - my pinch bolt for the strut was loose. I guess the shop hasn't torqued it down properly to spec?

Pics attached. Tightened the bolt and nut more and now it makes 0 noise! *whew*

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by hson10

Yeah you're totally right. I felt like that didn't make sense either.

Ended up finding the problem - my pinch bolt for the strut was loose. I guess the shop hasn't torqued it down properly to spec?

Pics attached. Tightened the bolt and nut more and now it makes 0 noise! *whew*

[Gizmo 335i]

Off topic but how do you like the springs? Please share how the ride and handling have changed.

[hson10]

Originally Posted by Gizmo 335i

Off topic but how do you like the springs? Please share how the ride and handling have changed.

I really like them! The ride characteristic is very much like stock but maybe 5-10% stiffer. I didn't set the springs at the lowest height they could go - just about 20mm lower on all 4 corners. Overall, been extremely pleased with them in the last 1000 mi or so!


More of my thoughts here:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1774036

[hson10]

Well the noise is back. I tightened the pinch strut bolt to spec and noise went away for about a day, but now is back and much louder than it was before. Not sure what it could be, but it legitimately sounds like bones creaking everytime I turn the wheel. Wonder if it's safe to drive??

[widetyres]

Originally Posted by hson10

Well the noise is back. I tightened the pinch strut bolt to spec and noise went away for about a day, but now is back and much louder than it was before. Not sure what it could be, but it legitimately sounds like bones creaking everytime I turn the wheel. Wonder if it's safe to drive??

The pinch bolts are stretch bolts so need replacing - just tightening to torque spec is not enough. I had clunks with my coilovers and only new punch bolts cured it.

[David.m]

Originally Posted by hson10

Well the noise is back. I tightened the pinch strut bolt to spec and noise went away for about a day, but now is back and much louder than it was before. Not sure what it could be, but it legitimately sounds like bones creaking everytime I turn the wheel. Wonder if it's safe to drive??

Also check that the pinch bolt is installed with the bolt head facing direction of travel (forward). This is spec’d in the repair manual, if the bolt is reversed the clicking noise will happen, why I’ve no idea.

[NISFAN]

First of all, make sure the springs are seated properly in the spring cups top and bottom. I don't know if MSS uses the stock cups?

Providing the above is ok, it could be the spring(s) slipping instead of the top hat bearing rotating. I have always suspected the top hat bearings tighten up under load (low cost design). When this happens, if it is easier for the spring to slip then that's what you will get. The spring being wound up when turning and it then slipping to release the tension, making the clicking noise as it does.

Alternatively, it could be the strut top nut. They are notoriously difficult to tighten properly (pass through spanner arrangement in a hard to access hole). If the shop didn't have the exact right tools, they could have left it loose enough to move about. The Ackerman on these cars is such that a lot of load is placed on the suspension when turning. You might be able to see this happening. Take off the protective cover in the engine bay and watch for movement as someone turns the steering. It will be very slight.

Lastly, the pinch bolt. You've already addressed that one.

Something to try: place a jack on the central lifting point. The donut on the belly pan. And incrementally jack up whilst steering to take weight off suspension. If the noise reduces and then stops altogether, it is one of the three items above.

Good luck.

[hson10]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

First of all, make sure the springs are seated properly in the spring cups top and bottom. I don't know if MSS uses the stock cups?

Providing the above is ok, it could be the spring(s) slipping instead of the top hat bearing rotating. I have always suspected the top hat bearings tighten up under load (low cost design). When this happens, if it is easier for the spring to slip then that's what you will get. The spring being wound up when turning and it then slipping to release the tension, making the clicking noise as it does.

Alternatively, it could be the strut top nut. They are notoriously difficult to tighten properly (pass through spanner arrangement in a hard to access hole). If the shop didn't have the exact right tools, they could have left it loose enough to move about. The Ackerman on these cars is such that a lot of load is placed on the suspension when turning. You might be able to see this happening. Take off the protective cover in the engine bay and watch for movement as someone turns the steering. It will be very slight.

Lastly, the pinch bolt. You've already addressed that one.

Something to try: place a jack on the central lifting point. The donut on the belly pan. And incrementally jack up whilst steering to take weight off suspension. If the noise reduces and then stops altogether, it is one of the three items above.

Good luck.

this was super good advice. I actually tried jacking the car up from the center point, and the suspension makes 0 noise when both front wheels are off the ground and turning side to side. I looked at the spring perch, and it looks like everything is aligned as should be. However, I did notice some scoring on the bottom on the spring - maybe when compressed, the spring is hitting each other? Wonder if I need an isolator. Also, Not sure on the top strut nut. I tried using some lubricant on the underside of the tophat (where the bearing would be), but no avail, noise is still there as soon as the car is back on the ground.

Attaching some photos to show what I mean

[hson10]

Originally Posted by widetyres

The pinch bolts are stretch bolts so need replacing - just tightening to torque spec is not enough. I had clunks with my coilovers and only new punch bolts cured it.

Yeah I made sure to get new ones as well, and put them in the correct orientation with the bolt head facing forward. At this point, I've ruled this out...

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by hson10

However, I did notice some scoring on the bottom on the spring - maybe when compressed, the spring is hitting each other?

That's from coil bind when the spring is compressing under certain loads.

Are the perches metal? Is there anything between the top of the perch and the bottom of the spring? I've seen springs in metal perches make noise as the spring skips around the perch under load (spring is more unloaded when wheels are off the ground so that may be why you didn't see it). A thrust sheet/bearing there would be how to fix it, if that's where the noise is coming from, but you could try lubricating that area with a lightweight oil and then seeing if the noise is still there to test.

[hson10]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

That's from coil bind when the spring is compressing under certain loads.

Are the perches metal? Is there anything between the top of the perch and the bottom of the spring? I've seen springs in metal perches make noise as the spring skips around the perch under load (spring is more unloaded when wheels are off the ground so that may be why you didn't see it). A thrust sheet/bearing there would be how to fix it, if that's where the noise is coming from, but you could try lubricating that area with a lightweight oil and then seeing if the noise is still there to test.

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

That's from coil bind when the spring is compressing under certain loads.

Are the perches metal? Is there anything between the top of the perch and the bottom of the spring? I've seen springs in metal perches make noise as the spring skips around the perch under load (spring is more unloaded when wheels are off the ground so that may be why you didn't see it). A thrust sheet/bearing there would be how to fix it, if that's where the noise is coming from, but you could try lubricating that area with a lightweight oil and then seeing if the noise is still there to test.

Yeah it definitely looks like cool bind from that. Interesting though because nobody else has mentioned coil bind issues on their MSS kit?

Do you have any recs on what kind of lubricant to use there? between the springs and the perch and the springs themselves.. wondering what else I should try at this point.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by hson10

this was super good advice. I actually tried jacking the car up from the center point, and the suspension makes 0 noise when both front wheels are off the ground and turning side to side. I looked at the spring perch, and it looks like everything is aligned as should be. However, I did notice some scoring on the bottom on the spring - maybe when compressed, the spring is hitting each other? Wonder if I need an isolator. Also, Not sure on the top strut nut. I tried using some lubricant on the underside of the tophat (where the bearing would be), but no avail, noise is still there as soon as the car is back on the ground.

Attaching some photos to show what I mean

As Farkle said, the paint scoring is from coil bind when weight is on the spring, compressing it. Not an issue.

Okay, so to eliminate the noise coming from the spring rotating on the lower surface (which would mean the top hat bearings g isn't working as it should), take a marker and draw a line on the spring relative to a feature on the adjusting collar. That key slot in the pic for example. Then rotate steering in both directions and see if the spring rotates with the adjuster as it should. Normally you get multiple clicks when the coil is skidding on the bottom surface, as it binds and slips, binds and slips.

My money is still on the top strut nut not done up tight enough. Drop an 18mm socket onto it and try tighten it. If it rotates with the damper rod, it probably isn't tight enough. Whilst in the engine bay, just double check the top hat bolts too.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by hson10

Yeah it definitely looks like cool bind from that. Interesting though because nobody else has mentioned coil bind issues on their MSS kit?

Do you have any recs on what kind of lubricant to use there? between the springs and the perch and the springs themselves.. wondering what else I should try at this point.

WD40, liquid wrench, 3 in 1 oil, ect. Any lightweight oils will be good enough for a quick test. If that solves it then you need a thrust sheet/bearing down there.

[hson10]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

As Farkle said, the paint scoring is from coil bind when weight is on the spring, compressing it. Not an issue.

Okay, so to eliminate the noise coming from the spring rotating on the lower surface (which would mean the top hat bearings g isn't working as it should), take a marker and draw a line on the spring relative to a feature on the adjusting collar. That key slot in the pic for example. Then rotate steering in both directions and see if the spring rotates with the adjuster as it should. Normally you get multiple clicks when the coil is skidding on the bottom surface, as it binds and slips, binds and slips.

My money is still on the top strut nut not done up tight enough. Drop an 18mm socket onto it and try tighten it. If it rotates with the damper rod, it probably isn't tight enough. Whilst in the engine bay, just double check the top hat bolts too.

Originally Posted by NISFAN

As Farkle said, the paint scoring is from coil bind when weight is on the spring, compressing it. Not an issue.

Okay, so to eliminate the noise coming from the spring rotating on the lower surface (which would mean the top hat bearings g isn't working as it should), take a marker and draw a line on the spring relative to a feature on the adjusting collar. That key slot in the pic for example. Then rotate steering in both directions and see if the spring rotates with the adjuster as it should. Normally you get multiple clicks when the coil is skidding on the bottom surface, as it binds and slips, binds and slips.

My money is still on the top strut nut not done up tight enough. Drop an 18mm socket onto it and try tighten it. If it rotates with the damper rod, it probably isn't tight enough. Whilst in the engine bay, just double check the top hat bolts too.

So I just tried to tighten the tophat bolt. it's really tight. like I couldn't turn it with just the 18mm socket. I tried putting the deep socket on and then holding it with a vice grip and turning while holding the 10mm middle hex with a skinny socket, and it wouldn't even budge..

At this point, signs are pointing to the tophat bearing?? Not 100% sure, but definitely seems like it could be the culprit. If the spring was skipping, I feel like it would be more of a popping noise than this clicking.

[Detoxified]

Originally Posted by hson10

So I just tried to tighten the tophat bolt. it's really tight. like I couldn't turn it with just the 18mm socket. I tried putting the deep socket on and then holding it with a vice grip and turning while holding the 10mm middle hex with a skinny socket, and it wouldn't even budge..

At this point, signs are pointing to the tophat bearing?? Not 100% sure, but definitely seems like it could be the culprit. If the spring was skipping, I feel like it would be more of a popping noise than this clicking.

Have you found a solution? My front MSS kit starting making the same sounds after 2,500 miles.

[MadM2C]

I can confirm it has nothing to do with the springs or lowering kit. My stock suspension started to do this after Camber plate install. Replacing the pinch bolt was a temporary fix. Noise came back, Doesn't effect drivability, I've tracked the car since a few times without issue. However after just disregarding it for some time, i think it went away again? lol

[hson10]

Originally Posted by MadM2C

I can confirm it has nothing to do with the springs or lowering kit. My stock suspension started to do this after Camber plate install. Replacing the pinch bolt was a temporary fix. Noise came back, Doesn't effect drivability, I've tracked the car since a few times without issue. However after just disregarding it for some time, i think it went away again? lol

Originally Posted by MadM2C

I can confirm it has nothing to do with the springs or lowering kit. My stock suspension started to do this after Camber plate install. Replacing the pinch bolt was a temporary fix. Noise came back, Doesn't effect drivability, I've tracked the car since a few times without issue. However after just disregarding it for some time, i think it went away again? lol

That's what happened here as well. I replaced the pinch bolt, but the noise came back. It annoyed me so much at first, but now I just ignore it and it *seems* better?

Still unclear what the main issue is.

[M2OG]

I'd love to chime in on this. I've been dealing with this very issue since lowering my car early this year. Turns out someone might have figured it out.

I think the key to solving this is the removal of the bracket in between the pinch point(later in the video when he goes back over it in more detail)