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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > This guy claims 400+bhp with breathing mods only, possible?

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      12-03-2018, 10:04 AM   #1
3t3p
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This guy claims 400+bhp with breathing mods only, possible?

Hi I'm not saying it's not possible I genuinely want to check as I am likely to get an OG M2 next year and want to know my options.

Rather than outright power I want an engine that is happy to rev and worry about cut off points I've seen for the n55 in the M2 on Dyno charts.

He may even post here I don't know but he says his numbers are with NO ECU work.
http://www.babybmw.net/viewtopic.php?t=110803

My planned mods so far are:

AST/Litchfield suspension package, Fabspeed DP, autoID M-inspired mirrors

Cheers
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      12-03-2018, 10:28 AM   #2
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LOL, no.
That's engine calculated power, not wheel power. So it's not unrealistic (but unlikely) that he picked up 30-40hp.
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      12-03-2018, 10:53 AM   #3
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Fabspeed claims 16 peak whp gain with their sport cat dp. It gets you close to 400 bhp but not quite.
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      12-03-2018, 12:47 PM   #4
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A bone stock M2 makes around 330hp to the wheels. Assuming a 15% drivetrain loss, that puts stock power at around 390bhp. So yeah, the M2, like all other turbo BMWs is quite underrated.
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      12-03-2018, 12:47 PM   #5
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It might be possible with downpipe, intercooler, intake, and exhaust to get that as engine power, but not wheel. We'll never know without testing.
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      12-03-2018, 02:25 PM   #6
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Ok I don't really care if it's not wheel horsepower he's quoting obviously it's engine/at the crank what I wanted to know is why you don't see threads pertaining to his particular set of mods in order to get frankly a lot more power without remapping?
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      12-03-2018, 02:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Ok I don't really care if it's not wheel horsepower he's quoting obviously it's engine/at the crank what I wanted to know is why you don't see threads pertaining to his particular set of mods in order to get frankly a lot more power without remapping?
It's not "a lot more power" it's 35 more than stock. For the amount of money adding all those parts, it's cost effective to do a tune as well, especially to optimize everything, which more than doubles the horsepower those parts might provide alone.
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      12-03-2018, 02:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Ok I don't really care if it's not wheel horsepower he's quoting obviously it's engine/at the crank what I wanted to know is why you don't see threads pertaining to his particular set of mods in order to get frankly a lot more power without remapping?
I've asked about the turbo inlet, which he says is the 3rd dyno and likely responsible for the larger gain on top end, but there is almost no feedback on it.
Here is one graph I saw
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...2&postcount=34
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      12-03-2018, 06:23 PM   #9
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Intake won't really get you any power so the obvious place is going to be downpipe. Downpipe will add 10-20 hp depending on how much you believe in manufacturer testing. I had the Fabspeed downpipe on my M235i and it's a great piece of equipment, but I don't think it added 20 hp. It did create a great soundtrack though.

As for IC that counts more towards being able to consistently put out power. Not calling the guy/gal a liar, but 370 hp to 424hp on chargepipe, IC, downpipe, etc seems optimistic to me without an ECU tune.
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      12-04-2018, 12:31 AM   #10
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400 is realistic when you consider bmw underrates the power a tiny bit.

I call BS on 425. We measured a mhd stg2+ M2 with 419

At the crank of course. We dont measure whp somehow in europe
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      12-04-2018, 12:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Ok I don't really care if it's not wheel horsepower he's quoting obviously it's engine/at the crank what I wanted to know is why you don't see threads pertaining to his particular set of mods in order to get frankly a lot more power without remapping?
I've asked about the turbo inlet, which he says is the 3rd dyno and likely responsible for the larger gain on top end, but there is almost no feedback on it.
Here is one graph I saw
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...8;postcount=34
That was my old m135i - Pure hi Flo inlet made a difference but more to retain throttle response (to counteract potential dumbing down due to upgraded FMIC). It worked and car was better for it so have another one to install on my m2 when I upgrade FMIC this time around.
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      12-04-2018, 12:57 AM   #12
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Guys, wheel or crank horsepower doesn't really matter. The post show a delta of 60+ hp difference on the same stock map before and after hardware mods.

My take on it is that DP/FMIC/Inlet(not to be confused with intake/filter) should be good for 20~30hp dependent of how hot it is outside, or more precisely by how much the ignition timing was already backed off without bolt-ons.

The rest of difference should come from the combination of environment variance, measuring error and conversion variance from whp & drivetrain drag to crank.
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      12-04-2018, 07:45 AM   #13
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Yes as noted above this is a dynamic increase in power and yes due to the way internal combustion works for relatively simple bolt on airflow mods a 10+% increase in power for a thermally limited product that is the IC engine is in fact significant.

You realise this reading about the R8 V8 engine mod pages. Usually a lot of money or rework is needed to get N/A performance increases.
I know the N55 is turbocharged and still thought the gains worthwhile, to me, without over- stressing the engine via a tune.

My current car is stage one and it's great, a new lease of life. But I 1) don't particularly think the OG M2 needs more power for road use/enjoyability, even if the chassis can take it and 2) have read the N55 is near at its natural limit as supplied and tuned by BMW, last thing I want to do is fry an engine with an 'M' moniker on it and deal with associated costs.

I'm glad this has sparked debate as that was the intended purpose.
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      12-04-2018, 10:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bee Pee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskmaster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3t3p View Post
Ok I don't really care if it's not wheel horsepower he's quoting obviously it's engine/at the crank what I wanted to know is why you don't see threads pertaining to his particular set of mods in order to get frankly a lot more power without remapping?
I've asked about the turbo inlet, which he says is the 3rd dyno and likely responsible for the larger gain on top end, but there is almost no feedback on it.
Here is one graph I saw
https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...8;postcount=34
That was my old m135i - Pure hi Flo inlet made a difference but more to retain throttle response (to counteract potential dumbing down due to upgraded FMIC). It worked and car was better for it so have another one to install on my m2 when I upgrade FMIC this time around.
I installed the pure inlet last weekend. I am surprised about the difference. It feels like the same difference as going from oem cat to sports cat (300cpsi).

Software is untouched.

Ah and on a side note: i found the oem paper air filter collapsed like it had a hard time withstanding the air flowing trough. Installed a BMS filter after seeing it.
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      12-04-2018, 06:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1s View Post
It's not "a lot more power" it's 35 more than stock. For the amount of money adding all those parts, it's cost effective to do a tune as well, especially to optimize everything, which more than doubles the horsepower those parts might provide alone.
Yea, you are already risking your warranty. With a tune you can at least have the computers on the car "tuned" for the aftermarket parts rather than for a stock car that is no longer stock.
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      12-05-2018, 07:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeni View Post
I installed the pure inlet last weekend. I am surprised about the difference. It feels like the same difference as going from oem cat to sports cat (300cpsi).

Software is untouched.

Ah and on a side note: i found the oem paper air filter collapsed like it had a hard time withstanding the air flowing trough. Installed a BMS filter after seeing it.
So aftermarket filter is required with the Pure Inlet?
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      12-05-2018, 07:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeDarko View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeni View Post
I installed the pure inlet last weekend. I am surprised about the difference. It feels like the same difference as going from oem cat to sports cat (300cpsi).

Software is untouched.

Ah and on a side note: i found the oem paper air filter collapsed like it had a hard time withstanding the air flowing trough. Installed a BMS filter after seeing it.
So aftermarket filter is required with the Pure Inlet?
I dont think so. Just a generall fyi that the oem filter might not be optimal airflow wise.

See picture below:
Attached Images
 
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      01-20-2021, 05:25 PM   #18
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FWIW I dynod stock at 412hp crank and after mods 421hp.

Same tank of fuel similar ambient temperatures two days apart.

Last edited by 3t3p; 01-21-2021 at 03:57 AM..
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      01-21-2021, 07:49 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeni View Post
I dont think so. Just a generall fyi that the oem filter might not be optimal airflow wise.

See picture below:
That's typical of an air filter that's been wet. I've never seen anything else cause that type of damage.
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