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      01-15-2017, 03:34 PM   #1
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///M2 2017 dyno'd with Dinan Tuner Stage 1

Hello guys!,

So I got my baby back in November, and I wanted a liltle bit more power, who doesnt , and I decided to install the Dinan Stage 1 on it, mainly because of the warranty and reliability by it, i did it, But just now after the break-in period I was able to actually test the car to verify the installed upgrade and see with my eyes the gains.

I have been taking with SeanWRT since he was interested by it, and kinda pushing me to do it haha, anyhow I was gonna do it for my interest.

So here are my results, the dyno was Dyno Dinamics Dynamometer:









Last But not least the Air-Fuel Ratio



My end results were:

Stock: Max 314.9 WHP rounds to 370.47 HP

Dinan tuner Max: 332.9 WHP rounds to 391.64HP

Fuel: 93 Octane


As far as I know, the dyno guy told me that there is some weird stuff with the Stage 1 that I have, after it past the 4900 rpm mark, the Dinan STG 1 is actually making less HP than stock, not only that but my AFR is jumping like crazy, and I have to give Dinan a call about this to see what's going on with it, because if the car cant handle the requested increase it should at least hold on to the stock HP, not go below it. And the car is doing that to protect itself.

But its clear that at the start its actually giving more power to the car and holding it.

here is a reference regarding Dinan Stage 1 results, and how mine should look like



Now Im not an expert on this, I have to admit its my 1st dyno test, but with these results maybe you can take a look, and guide me, it's worth the shot

Oh yeah, And the camera on the 1st picture, well you should know it, haha my baby was the main surprise on the garage, and one guy was all like, can I take pictures. I was like yes, sure why not haha
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Last edited by josepi123; 01-15-2017 at 03:40 PM.. Reason: More info.
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      01-15-2017, 04:19 PM   #2
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Looks like you would see higher results by installing their SPORT Performance Tuner device per other members dyno results.

Send them logs from dyno shop, an keep us posted what did they told you.
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      01-15-2017, 11:56 PM   #3
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Josepi, I don't see how Stage One make 334WHP from your graph. It's a 309WHP Dinan curve overlaid with 315WHP stock. Please post the 334whp run if you have.

Dinan_Engineering clarified me a few weeks back that little to no difference should be seen below 2500rpm just so the drivability is maintained. Boost only starts to be apparent from 3000rpm and peaks at 5500rpm before tapering down to redline, though horsepower for the last 1500rpm will be the same.

My observation and thoughts. Data log if you have, would be useful to see what's really going on.

1) The torque delta is significant down low, nothing like Dinantronic is supposed to make. My guess is the overboost (factory feature, from 1400-5500, 3 psi worth) didn't kick in with your stock run (see how smooth stock curve is), which can explain the huge difference.
BTW, Jb4 cars run much smoother when MAF is unplugged to disable overboost. These piggyback would be much less 'confused' when DME boost target is stable.

2) From AFR plot, 4000~5400rpm is where Dinan runs leaner and torque goes below stock. The car is running stock fuel mixture on boost during that time under high IAT (well, out tiny little stock intercooler...), DME detected (soft) detonation and pulled timing, leading to power loss. From 5500rpm, overboost(factory feature) disabled, the power goes much below stock.

3) From 5700rpm, DME is happier with less boost and timing starts to recover, the power go back up and is close to stock from 6300rpm. But timing loss in mid range just hurts too much for boost over stock to compensate for.
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      01-16-2017, 09:59 AM   #4
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Well the dyno guy was the one that told me on that dinan run, that reads 309 whp, at start on the lower rpm it actually making more like it should but it quickly dissapear in the mid to high range, giving that end result, much less than stock. Although probably im wrong since in noob at rhis thats why i posted the graphs.

Also, total noob question here, i believe we run it on comfort mode, but with manual gears and push it. Since i have a DCT. Does that makes a difference, or could be the cause of the problem with the STG 1? Not sure if Dinan_Engineering did it like that.

Im not sure but would like to know. Other than that everything is stock on the car just the stg 1.
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      01-16-2017, 10:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josepi123 View Post
Well the dyno guy was the one that told me on that dinan run, that reads 309 whp, at start on the lower rpm it actually making more like it should but it quickly dissapear in the mid to high range, giving that end result, much less than stock. Although probably im wrong since in noob at rhis thats why i posted the graphs.

Also, total noob question here, i believe we run it on comfort mode, but with manual gears and push it. Since i have a DCT. Does that makes a difference, or could be the cause of the problem with the STG 1? Not sure if Dinan_Engineering did it like that.

Im not sure but would like to know. Other than that everything is stock on the car just the stg 1.
Was this car taken in for break-in service? For some reason I recalled when you bring it for break-in service the tech will update the software. Forgot where I saw that.
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      01-17-2017, 08:46 AM   #6
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Guys, probably my 332.9whp reading is my misinterpretation of the graph, i mean at start it does have a high hp, but like the dyno guy told me the real reading is actually 309whp which is as you say SeanWRT is actually making less than stock, even if i have higher hp at start.

And yes, i did the breakin service at 1205 miles, like they told me. After that the car behaves like a beast, but on paper sith does numbers i feel kinda sad withthe dinan stg 1 unless something is really mess up
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      01-17-2017, 09:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josepi123 View Post
Guys, probably my 332.9whp reading is my misinterpretation of the graph, i mean at start it does have a high hp, but like the dyno guy told me the real reading is actually 309whp which is as you say SeanWRT is actually making less than stock, even if i have higher hp at start.

And yes, i did the breakin service at 1205 miles, like they told me. After that the car behaves like a beast, but on paper sith does numbers i feel kinda sad withthe dinan stg 1 unless something is really mess up
It's absolutely a huge disappointment that a 1544$ worth tune makes less than stock peak power. Before jumping into any conclusion, you need to give full disclosure how the dyno runs were performed and ask Dinan chime in.
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      01-17-2017, 01:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josepi123 View Post
Guys, probably my 332.9whp reading is my misinterpretation of the graph, i mean at start it does have a high hp, but like the dyno guy told me the real reading is actually 309whp which is as you say SeanWRT is actually making less than stock, even if i have higher hp at start.

And yes, i did the breakin service at 1205 miles, like they told me. After that the car behaves like a beast, but on paper sith does numbers i feel kinda sad withthe dinan stg 1 unless something is really mess up
Reinstall the DME connectors and redo the dyno to see if that changes anything. Also I believe the Dinan figures are for the crank so you'll have to guide down for whp.
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      01-17-2017, 05:58 PM   #9
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I would contact Dinan about it .. .Something is not functioning correctly
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      01-17-2017, 08:48 PM   #10
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How many miles driven between stock vs tuned runs? Usually that matters as ECU needs to adapt.
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      01-19-2017, 03:04 PM   #11
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What we are seeing here is an ecu that is fighting against a piggyback... It's confused. The drop at 4500 is most likely due to timing pull and increasing IAT due to the piggy back trying to constantly ramp up the boost - ecu doing this as it's getting lied to- in order to maintain its targets, the car heat soaks, timing pulls, and a subsequent loss of power. It's really as simple as that. I seen IATs of 80deg C on 2 runs with an outside air temp of 6 degrees c... It's a completely different story on the road though as the air coming in and IAT is easier to maintain.
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      01-19-2017, 03:27 PM   #12
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This is interesting..
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      01-19-2017, 04:12 PM   #13
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that sucks...
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      01-20-2017, 01:44 PM   #14
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Disregarding the above-described dips probably resulting from the timing being pulled...generally speaking, it shows the limit of the turbo. You can makes gains in the midrange, but there's nothing left up top, at least with the factory timing. Similar results to what Burger was seeing.
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      01-20-2017, 02:19 PM   #15
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Everything is pure speculation being 3000 miles away and only details being a couple photos but my guess is high intake air temps resulting from lack of cooling is causing the dip and timing pull.

OP is welcome to contact technical support and give more information so that they can formulate a more accurate assessment of what may be going on though.
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      01-20-2017, 02:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Disregarding the above-described dips probably resulting from the timing being pulled...generally speaking, it shows the limit of the turbo. You can makes gains in the midrange, but there's nothing left up top, at least with the factory timing. Similar results to what Burger was seeing.
Timing is pulled perhaps because of the shit 91. I can tell everyone that the sport controller pulls nicely to 7000, as should stage 1 dinantronics
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      01-20-2017, 06:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiysersosae View Post
What we are seeing here is an ecu that is fighting against a piggyback... It's confused. The drop at 4500 is most likely due to timing pull and increasing IAT due to the piggy back trying to constantly ramp up the boost - ecu doing this as it's getting lied to- in order to maintain its targets, the car heat soaks, timing pulls, and a subsequent loss of power. It's really as simple as that. I seen IATs of 80deg C on 2 runs with an outside air temp of 6 degrees c... It's a completely different story on the road though as the air coming in and IAT is easier to maintain.
+1

People don't really know what they're doing and think upping the boost on a already High-Boost engined is going to result in good power band or good numbers haha. Needs a real tune! Tricking wont be consistent!

Take it to the drag-strip see yourself running same 1/4 mile as you would stock form, maybe shave off .1
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      01-21-2017, 02:47 PM   #18
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Hi again guys, Sorry I have been busy these days and I havent got time to read you all. my bad.!

Thank you for your answers

So i contacted Dinan Tech, and explained the whole situation, how the dyno test was done, and pretty much more details.

Stock runs where done 1st, we did 2 runs, back to back achieving the same results. After that we did 1 last run with a 10 minutes rest, then we activated stage 1 via dinantronics app. and double checked to be sure it was on.

we did 2 runs back to back and both of them gave the same problem (same reading). After that the dino guy told me lets wait around 20 minutes to test again with the dinan because its showing me an issue, and thats what we did, after about 20 minutes we did the last run and the results from that run is posted.

So I told the dinan tech guy that on the runs Stability Control was on, and it was on comfort mode, and we runned all test with that setting.

He told me "Well from what you are describing and you are showing me, the dinan Stage 1 is working on your car, and you have the lastest software update, my best guess would be that in order to take full advantage of the test you need to turn off completely Stability Control, or run it in MDM "m dynamic mode". You see probably whats going on is the car wants to make more power but the stability control is kicking in and the car is trying to control itself from our settings so it play with the AFR to do that. We had the same problem it our M2, and it was caused by the stability control turned on.

At the start is actually making more power and it dissipated in the midrange, which tell me its working."

Now as an advice he told me it would be best to do a second test run and try this new info he is telling me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kiysersosae View Post
What we are seeing here is an ecu that is fighting against a piggyback... It's confused. The drop at 4500 is most likely due to timing pull and increasing IAT due to the piggy back trying to constantly ramp up the boost - ecu doing this as it's getting lied to- in order to maintain its targets, the car heat soaks, timing pulls, and a subsequent loss of power. It's really as simple as that. I seen IATs of 80deg C on 2 runs with an outside air temp of 6 degrees c... It's a completely different story on the road though as the air coming in and IAT is easier to maintain.
+1

Also like I say before I only use 93, since day 1, and my car have 2500 miles on it. Other than that like I say before throttle response feel much sharper with STG 1 on + comfort mode it feels kinda Sport mode. And sport mode its beast mode.

About the heat Mmm its hard for me to say, I live in miami, which is hot all the time, but on the Dyno test day it was 83°F, with elevation: 6.398 feet, just in case you want more info :P,

But what you say sounds 100% legit, would be interesting to test also that theory, the dyno shop actually have more high performance fan blowers, so do you thing maybe putting more might help?
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      01-22-2017, 02:35 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josepi123 View Post
Hi again guys, Sorry I have been busy these days and I havent got time to read you all. my bad.!

Thank you for your answers

So i contacted Dinan Tech, and explained the whole situation, how the dyno test was done, and pretty much more details.

Stock runs where done 1st, we did 2 runs, back to back achieving the same results. After that we did 1 last run with a 10 minutes rest, then we activated stage 1 via dinantronics app. and double checked to be sure it was on.

we did 2 runs back to back and both of them gave the same problem (same reading). After that the dino guy told me lets wait around 20 minutes to test again with the dinan because its showing me an issue, and thats what we did, after about 20 minutes we did the last run and the results from that run is posted.

So I told the dinan tech guy that on the runs Stability Control was on, and it was on comfort mode, and we runned all test with that setting.

He told me "Well from what you are describing and you are showing me, the dinan Stage 1 is working on your car, and you have the lastest software update, my best guess would be that in order to take full advantage of the test you need to turn off completely Stability Control, or run it in MDM "m dynamic mode". You see probably whats going on is the car wants to make more power but the stability control is kicking in and the car is trying to control itself from our settings so it play with the AFR to do that. We had the same problem it our M2, and it was caused by the stability control turned on.

At the start is actually making more power and it dissipated in the midrange, which tell me its working."

Now as an advice he told me it would be best to do a second test run and try this new info he is telling me.




+1

Also like I say before I only use 93, since day 1, and my car have 2500 miles on it. Other than that like I say before throttle response feel much sharper with STG 1 on + comfort mode it feels kinda Sport mode. And sport mode its beast mode.

About the heat Mmm its hard for me to say, I live in miami, which is hot all the time, but on the Dyno test day it was 83°F, with elevation: 6.398 feet, just in case you want more info :P,

But what you say sounds 100% legit, would be interesting to test also that theory, the dyno shop actually have more high performance fan blowers, so do you thing maybe putting more might help?
That's good they are supporting you to try and solve this, could you get them to pay for the dyno?

I hear what Dinian is saying and it sounds plausible, just I would have thought traction control would try and kick in at max tourque, not higher up the rev range where tourque is dropping off.

If you are feeling a difference on the road all the way to red line then that is positive.

Yes, the more cooling the better, the more fans aimed at the intercooler the better.

Best thing for you to do would be to get the stop watch out and do some pulls with the tuner on/off. Go and try a few 40-60mph pulls in 4th, you should run at stock 2.9 sec. The new Audi TT Rs does a 2.7 sec. and again try 60-80mph stock 3.1 sec. Audi does 2.8sec. If you can get close to the Audi that would be a good achievment.

I run the Stienbauer box and match the Audi times.
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      01-23-2017, 09:04 PM   #20
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The instrumented test is the most difficult thing you will want to do to measure performance delta unless in a perfectly controlled environment. There are many variables to lead you to wrong conclusion.

And I honestly do not think comparison test you made to TTRS make much senses even if it's properly performed. Reason is simple: different gear ratio plays too big part in 40-60 short pull. You'd be much better do a 60-120 start from highest gear. And one of my M2 buddy already did just that on JB4 map 1 (+4psi, Dinan Sport Tuner equivalence) and map 2 with his otherwise stock car. The result is 9.5 sec on map 1 and an astonishing 8.8~9.0 on map 2. Ambient temperature being 10 degree Celsius or 50 F. Fortunately, he was early enough to realize map 2 is the suicidal map for stock car.

The best thing to measure improvement for OP right now, is simply to re-dyno his car on and off, with everything correctly set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiysersosae View Post
Best thing for you to do would be to get the stop watch out and do some pulls with the tuner on/off. Go and try a few 40-60mph pulls in 4th, you should run at stock 2.9 sec. The new Audi TT Rs does a 2.7 sec. and again try 60-80mph stock 3.1 sec. Audi does 2.8sec. If you can get close to the Audi that would be a good achievment.

I run the Stienbauer box and match the Audi times.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiysersosae View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by josepi123 View Post
Hi again guys, Sorry I have been busy these days and I havent got time to read you all. my bad.!

Thank you for your answers

So i contacted Dinan Tech, and explained the whole situation, how the dyno test was done, and pretty much more details.

Stock runs where done 1st, we did 2 runs, back to back achieving the same results. After that we did 1 last run with a 10 minutes rest, then we activated stage 1 via dinantronics app. and double checked to be sure it was on.

we did 2 runs back to back and both of them gave the same problem (same reading). After that the dino guy told me lets wait around 20 minutes to test again with the dinan because its showing me an issue, and thats what we did, after about 20 minutes we did the last run and the results from that run is posted.

So I told the dinan tech guy that on the runs Stability Control was on, and it was on comfort mode, and we runned all test with that setting.

He told me "Well from what you are describing and you are showing me, the dinan Stage 1 is working on your car, and you have the lastest software update, my best guess would be that in order to take full advantage of the test you need to turn off completely Stability Control, or run it in MDM "m dynamic mode". You see probably whats going on is the car wants to make more power but the stability control is kicking in and the car is trying to control itself from our settings so it play with the AFR to do that. We had the same problem it our M2, and it was caused by the stability control turned on.

At the start is actually making more power and it dissipated in the midrange, which tell me its working."

Now as an advice he told me it would be best to do a second test run and try this new info he is telling me.




+1

Also like I say before I only use 93, since day 1, and my car have 2500 miles on it. Other than that like I say before throttle response feel much sharper with STG 1 on + comfort mode it feels kinda Sport mode. And sport mode its beast mode.

About the heat Mmm its hard for me to say, I live in miami, which is hot all the time, but on the Dyno test day it was 83°F, with elevation: 6.398 feet, just in case you want more info :P,

But what you say sounds 100% legit, would be interesting to test also that theory, the dyno shop actually have more high performance fan blowers, so do you thing maybe putting more might help?
That's good they are supporting you to try and solve this, could you get them to pay for the dyno?

I hear what Dinian is saying and it sounds plausible, just I would have thought traction control would try and kick in at max tourque, not higher up the rev range where tourque is dropping off.

If you are feeling a difference on the road all the way to red line then that is positive.

Yes, the more cooling the better, the more fans aimed at the intercooler the better.

Best thing for you to do would be to get the stop watch out and do some pulls with the tuner on/off. Go and try a few 40-60mph pulls in 4th, you should run at stock 2.9 sec. The new Audi TT Rs does a 2.7 sec. and again try 60-80mph stock 3.1 sec. Audi does 2.8sec. If you can get close to the Audi that would be a good achievment.

I run the Stienbauer box and match the Audi times.
Damn I did 5 runs and measured it with TorquePro 60-80mph at 2.3 best & avg in rain. Going to try again tomorrow that is dry & will do 40-60 gotta see if my TorquePro has this pid.
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      01-24-2017, 04:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSociety View Post
Damn I did 5 runs and measured it with TorquePro 60-80mph at 2.3 best & avg in rain. Going to try again tomorrow that is dry & will do 40-60 gotta see if my TorquePro has this pid.
I done some runs with torque pro and hit 2.3, I then decided to use a stop watch and got my times that I posted, I'm not sure the GPS is fast enough on the app, at one point I was doing 1.9 pull 60-80...I wish!!. Do some basic stop watch runs back to back, it will give you an idea of the accuracy of tourque but will land you closer to the real times I think. And I know it's not as accurate as box but it's accurate enough to show a difference between stock and tuned.
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