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      09-19-2015, 08:11 PM   #23
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A picture was posted on a previous thread showing the M2 test Mule having a M4 Diff and possibly the same Suspension as M4.

That being said, I would like a Full Dyno run of the Dinan programmed cars to see if they reach the claimed numbers you have posted in the OP. Working for BMW as a technician here in Edmonton, I have installed a fair bit of Dinan software on M235i, M4 and Even a M6 From my personal experience... Dinan software is very conservative and was not overly impressed.
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      09-19-2015, 10:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taunto View Post
A picture was posted on a previous thread showing the M2 test Mule having a M4 Diff and possibly the same Suspension as M4.

That being said, I would like a Full Dyno run of the Dinan programmed cars to see if they reach the claimed numbers you have posted in the OP. Working for BMW as a technician here in Edmonton, I have installed a fair bit of Dinan software on M235i, M4 and Even a M6 From my personal experience... Dinan software is very conservative and was not overly impressed.
Dinan's quotes are always crank numbers. Funny thing is, they use a roller dyno and do math to calculate HP and TQ numbers. I like my Dinan for the warranty, but if I was serious about making power, I'd be putting my JB4 back in.
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      09-19-2015, 10:41 PM   #25
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Ok so this comment is based on my flat mate owning a 1M and me owning a M235i... The M2 will be a very track focused car... Track performance will be light and day better... The car will have a harsher ride... In my opinion it's not even about whether one car is "better" than the other... As I think they serve a different purpose.
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      09-19-2015, 10:54 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by den525 View Post
Ok so this comment is based on my flat mate owning a 1M and me owning a M235i... The M2 will be a very track focused car... Track performance will be light and day better... The car will have a harsher ride... In my opinion it's not even about whether one car is "better" than the other... As I think they serve a different purpose.
I expect the M2 to still be a very livable car for day to day driving. The suspension will feel somewhere between sport and sport+ if compared to the M4
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      09-19-2015, 10:59 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by den525 View Post
Ok so this comment is based on my flat mate owning a 1M and me owning a M235i... The M2 will be a very track focused car... Track performance will be light and day better... The car will have a harsher ride... In my opinion it's not even about whether one car is "better" than the other... As I think they serve a different purpose.
I expect the M2 to still be a very livable car for day to day driving. The suspension will feel somewhere between sport and sport+ if compared to the M4
Well yea it will definitely be liveable... It depends where you draw the line (which differs with different people). I owned a Renault RS 250, it was an awesome driver's car but it was borderline too harsh
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      09-19-2015, 11:24 PM   #28
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Well yea it will definitely be liveable... It depends where you draw the line (which differs with different people). I owned a Renault RS 250, it was an awesome driver's car but it was borderline too harsh
Completely disagree. If you are talking about GTS/CSL models, I absolutely agree. But the normal M car is absolutely born to be a daily driver and fun car all in one, apart from maybe the M Coupes and Roadsters
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      09-20-2015, 12:27 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by den525 View Post
Well yea it will definitely be liveable... It depends where you draw the line (which differs with different people). I owned a Renault RS 250, it was an awesome driver's car but it was borderline too harsh
Completely disagree. If you are talking about GTS/CSL models, I absolutely agree. But the normal M car is absolutely born to be a daily driver and fun car all in one, apart from maybe the M Coupes and Roadsters
Likes I said different people have different opinions. To be honest I'd buy one if I was in the market. Well on the short list with the likes of Cayman S or boxter S
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      09-20-2015, 07:38 AM   #30
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The answers to the questions of comparing each of the configurations listed by the OP will come in time.
Once an M2 is available.

From what I recall, BMW has been using the M235i racing program and another set of data testing M2 mules to extract speed and performance from the new M2 package.

Dinan is adding power to the engine. And we all know that goes only so far.

Hence, the feel, the enjoyment and the performance will each be at different levels. An M car is always going to have that Motorsport something or another that just delivers. Kind of like a great dancer or boxer can beat a great athlete who lacks the talent but perhaps has the training.

An S engine or not under the hood will not eliminate the Motorsport qualities in the M2. Instead, weight, suspension, brakes, differential and all the setup magic from the M group will make the M2 a different car.

If the latter were not true, then the M2 badge would be only a name glued to the body of the car.

OP, if you want to have an M235i and may sell it in a couple of years then it makes a lot of sense to buy it, tune it and then test the M2 in a year or two. And if you like it more then make the switch.
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      09-20-2015, 08:31 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 n X5M View Post

An S engine or not under the hood will not eliminate the Motorsport qualities in the M2. Instead, weight, suspension, brakes, differential and all the setup magic from the M group will make the M2 a different car.

If the latter were not true, then the M2 badge would be only a name glued to the body of the car.

OP, if you want to have an M235i and may sell it in a couple of years then it makes a lot of sense to buy it, tune it and then test the M2 in a year or two. And if you like it more then make the switch.
Is that where we're setting the bar now for "M" cars?

Most of us previous and current M owners will agree that not having an "S" under the hood is a big hole in this offering...

Will it still be fun? Adored by the rags? Probably...but it is an M235i tweaked with a few M parts at the end of the day.

Sounds like this generations 1m? Not a bad offering either - but even that had an "S" under the hood...
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      09-20-2015, 08:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest M235i View Post
Is that where we're setting the bar now for "M" cars?

Most of us previous and current M owners will agree that not having an "S" under the hood is a big hole in this offering...

Will it still be fun? Adored by the rags? Probably...but it is an M235i tweaked with a few M parts at the end of the day.

Sounds like this generations 1m? Not a bad offering either - but even that had an "S" under the hood...
1M used the N54. What S are you referring to?
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      09-20-2015, 08:41 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest M235i View Post
Is that where we're setting the bar now for "M" cars?

Most of us previous and current M owners will agree that not having an "S" under the hood is a big hole in this offering...

Will it still be fun? Adored by the rags? Probably...but it is an M235i tweaked with a few M parts at the end of the day.

Sounds like this generations 1m? Not a bad offering either - but even that had an "S" under the hood...

Crack kills
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      09-20-2015, 08:44 AM   #34
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1M used the N54. What S are you referring to?
The I recalled incorrectly...My apologies. So then the M2 is very much the same approach as the 1m..

Certainly not a bad place to be...Not sure it will have the delta to the M235i that will get me to buy it down the road? We'll see...
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      09-20-2015, 08:45 AM   #35
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Crack kills
And fanboys wear blinders....
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      09-20-2015, 09:03 AM   #36
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Numbers shumbers...it's all about engagement and passion. Time will tell if the M2 will bring it, but if history tells us anything...

Too early
/thread
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      09-20-2015, 10:13 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest M235i View Post
Is that where we're setting the bar now for "M" cars?

Most of us previous and current M owners will agree that not having an "S" under the hood is a big hole in this offering...

Will it still be fun? Adored by the rags? Probably...but it is an M235i tweaked with a few M parts at the end of the day.

Sounds like this generations 1m? Not a bad offering either - but even that had an "S" under the hood...
Um... No. It's a car focused on a different goal, that yes, has superior components, but also has endured a whole new round of development and testing.

It's not just an M235i with M4 components and a tweeked suspension.... But if saying that makes you feel better about your M235i... Then go ahead and believe that
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      09-20-2015, 10:19 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
Um... No. It's a car focused on a different goal, that yes, has superior components, but also has endured a whole new round of development and testing.

It's not just an M235i with M4 components and a tweeked suspension.... But if saying that makes you feel better about your M235i... Then go ahead and believe that
Agreed. It's not like the last 1+ years we've been seeing of the car testing on the ring have been strictly for fun after just bolting new parts on. Nothing against Dinan, but I'm pretty sure the M2 probably has 1000+ hours of testing into it.
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      09-20-2015, 10:28 AM   #39
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Um... No. It's a car focused on a different goal, that yes, has superior components, but also has endured a whole new round of development and testing.

It's not just an M235i with M4 components and a tweeked suspension.... But if saying that makes you feel better about your M235i... Then go ahead and believe that
While I agree with you in theory, how do you know? For him to say he's not sure the M2 will bring enough difference to warrant buying it over the M235i is a totally valid statement. His is more true than yours since his is speculative over the known and the unknowns and yours is definitive over simply unknowns. Not everyone wanted the 35i variant over the 28i of the 2 series, 3 series, or any other series, just the same as many didn't find the need to go to an M over a X 35i. I think it'll still stand with this as with every other generation before it (except for maybe the current 6 series) that the M car will always appeal more to the enthusiast. But to some, the extra power and focused nature of the car, along with perhaps some reduced sound dampening and lack of options will totally not warrant the added expense. This car is totally different from the typical M experience. And with that it is certainly not for everyone, enthusiast or not.
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      09-20-2015, 10:48 AM   #40
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Isn't so much of the "warrant" going to depend on the msrp? Which, and you may want to be seated for this one, we don't know yet!

So I will say again, it is worthless to have this conversation yet.
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      09-20-2015, 11:41 AM   #41
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While I agree with you in theory, how do you know? For him to say he's not sure the M2 will bring enough difference to warrant buying it over the M235i is a totally valid statement. His is more true than yours since his is speculative over the known and the unknowns and yours is definitive over simply unknowns. Not everyone wanted the 35i variant over the 28i of the 2 series, 3 series, or any other series, just the same as many didn't find the need to go to an M over a X 35i. I think it'll still stand with this as with every other generation before it (except for maybe the current 6 series) that the M car will always appeal more to the enthusiast. But to some, the extra power and focused nature of the car, along with perhaps some reduced sound dampening and lack of options will totally not warrant the added expense. This car is totally different from the typical M experience. And with that it is certainly not for everyone, enthusiast or not.
Here's the thing: I am not saying that the M2 is enough to warrant the price difference for everyone. I agree that there are many people that the M240i will return more for the price. However, it is a fact that the M2 is going through a long development process... it is not an M235i with bolt on pieces. That's a fact. We already know that.

I never said that the M2 will be the better buy for everyone... I may have not been clear enough. Understand what I'm saying now?
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      09-20-2015, 12:03 PM   #42
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Hypothesis 1: engine failure. Who do you prefer to talk to, when hoping to get things sorted out without being required to jump through too many hoops if repairs risk to be expensive: BMW or Dinan ? Not gonna discredit Dinan's warranty and assistance, but, as a matter of fact, BMW got deeper pockets and more staff available.

Hypothesis 2: resale day. As we know, a car is almost never a good financial investment (it's rather a good 'fun investment'), but what do you prefer to sell, when hoping to get back a decent part of all the monies spent: an M2 or a Dinan tuned M235i/M240i ?

In the end, the choice is personal. Having peace of mind is also an asset. Choose what floats your boat best, now and in the future.

Personally, I prefer the M2. An M2 will always be an M2, no matter what car blows it out of the water in terms of performance, weight, price, etc. We may trust that the folks at BMW M know their business. They won't sign off the final version after extensive testing and tweaking, if it doesn't meet yet their pretty high engineering standards (their only battle is with the bean counters).

Don't lose out of sight that BMW M also tweaks and replaces quite a number of parts to cope/interact - with sufficient margin - with the engine they modified. It's a total package that you get for the price, not merely some engine tune and a body kit. Otherwise said, generally speaking it's still the BMW orchestra, but with a different director and a substantial number of player replacements, interactively and harmoniously producing a different kind of music: ///Music.
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      09-20-2015, 12:30 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Adem1534 View Post
<snip>However, it is a fact that the M2 is going through a long development process... it is not an M235i with bolt on pieces. That's a fact. We already know that. <snip>
Not arguing as I see your point. However my development engineer side knows that a long schedule doesn't necessarily mean a great amount of activity. If BMW applied minimal resources, it would still take a long time even with a limited scope.

Last edited by Spook410; 09-20-2015 at 12:41 PM..
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      09-20-2015, 12:37 PM   #44
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I go back and forth. Used 911. Stripper/used Cayman S. M2. M235. Even sometimes when I'm feeling pragmatic a 6MT 335Xdrive or inexpensive 228 w/track pkg. The M2 appears, so far, the most interesting. Still, there is a very good argument that a M235 will be faster and more poised than any application I might throw at it. My M135 was a blast on the autobahn and in the states.

So why not a M235? Because I can afford an M2 and I'm hoping it will be that much better.
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